ComplaintsforFour Seasons Sunrooms - Tiem Builders Ltd.

• Initial Complaint

  29/01/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  Contract for the building of a four seasons sunroom signed in January 2022. Work has yet to be completed and unreasonable delays and a lack of communication about finishing of work continue to be an issue. A recent de-pressurization test of our home showed significant air leakage from the sunroom, leading to the consultant stating that there was improper sealing around certain portions of the room. He stated it was the one of the most significant leakages he has seen. A few weeks back, I had indicated to Four Seasons that I was concerned about improper installation, leading to leakage (and icing up of window frames) and was told the extreme cold was responsible for this. I was never contacted back when I said I would like to discuss this. Four Seasons management did come out in August of 2023 to look at the deficiencies needed for us to finish up. Again, many deficiencies were discussed and none were remedied, with no confirmed scheduled. I stated that with some of the materials they had on back order for them to come out in September and do it all at once. I did not hear back from them until December.The envelope of our house has been damaged with the improper installation of the windows in the sunroom. This has resulted in significant increases cost for heating (beyond what one would expect with a sunroom), water damage, and potential ongoing issues, like the potential for mould. Despite numerous texts and phone calls, I rarely get a call back or the issues addressed. We have paid $150 000 for this addition and there has been a significant failure by Four Seasons to deliver what they sold us as a product. Looking for a sincere effort to remedy the existing issues as per contract, for Four Seasons to be transparent and forthright in providing reasonable solutions, rather then making excuses for why they have not completed the project or why the work they have provided is sub-standard.

  Customer response

  01/02/2024

  This is for a detached home. There is no invoice, but rather a contract for service for a $139 000 addition that has not been completed and has several deficiencies that have not been addressed.

  Business response

  14/02/2024

  The owner has been called by head office to explain that the problem with missing parts we're from their end. They are **************. The problem with the air test just came up a few weeks ago during a cold snap. Tiem builders agreed to add a thermal trim package at no charge. All the materials are on the way. We also have a list of deficiencies that will be taken care when the parts all come. 

  Customer response

  16/02/2024

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  While I did receive a phone call by Four Seasons Headquarters and a solution was discussed, it has not been confirmed for me. I was also asked to resubmit the deficiency list for the third time.

  I again sent a detailed email last Friday (February 9th), with no response back, despite their request for me to communicate with them as soon as possible.

  Again, no confirmed solution, no timeline and some pressure to pay the final instalment, despite an outstanding deficiency list (which has more than just missing parts and supplies). While I can appreciate that the 3-4 week timeframe for freezing/air leakage issue, I was only to gain the necessary attention through a formal complaint.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************

  Business response

  04/03/2024

  This has been resolved. The work is complete and the customer has paid. 

  Customer response

  05/03/2024

  
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************

• Initial Complaint

  27/06/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  In Sep 2022, we sent an invoice to Four Seasons (FS) for reimbursement to us, as WE paid to replace a glass panel shattered by FS' workers while working on our ******** system (***) in summer 2021. We had had 1 yr of looking at the eyesore of a red-taped panel, until we had it fixed in 2022. Now another yr is upcoming since FS has not reimbursed for its damage. Background: In 2015, FS built ***********, including the *** of glass panels/door bought from FS and a 14x14 ft skylight. In 2021, we called FS to adjust/fix the malfunctioning ***. In summer 2021, FS workers attended to adjust/fix the ***, during which time FS workers shattered a glass panel in the ***. The damage was acknowledged by FS workers, who said the panel would be replaced, taking approx. 4-6 wks. This timeline was a relief to us as it was before our upcoming travel. FS workers red-taped the shattered panel, left flashing/door trim material on our sidewalk and departed. Panel replacement by FS never happened. In Sep 2022, we paid a company to supply/install a new panel in the *** as our enjoyment of *********** was affected, as well as any ease of mind concerning security (as the panel was broken to anyone who looked) for 1 yr. Despite communications with FS, FS has not reimbursed us for the invoice provided in Sep 2022 that we paid to replace the panel damaged by FS' workers. FS has taken different positions for not paying, stating: *It thought we were going to source/pay for panel replacement how does this even make sense? *The *** was out of warranty - it was never a warranty issue and, but for the actions of FS workers, the panel would not be shattered. *The sunroom foundation was the issue - the foundation was engineered/stamped by a professional structural engineer. Conversely, if there was an issue due to any infrastructure above the concrete, FS built it. Of note is we still have the outstanding necessity of having authorized *** installers attend our home to realign the ***.

  Business response

  29/06/2023

  Without Prejudice,

  We were asked by *********************** to look at a ******** door that was out of warranty. The doors were not working and needed to be adjusted as there was noticeable settling which put the doors out of square and under considerable stress. When the stress was released the jamb snapped back hitting the door causing it to break. As mentioned, this service call was out of warranty. The service tech did not know this was out of warranty. All work was billable including the broken glass that broke because of settling, related to the foundation that was built by the homeowner in 2015. The owner was never invoiced for the work thus never paid for the service call, although **** agreed the service call would be billable work. The owner paid to replace the glass, a cost he now ********* to take us to court for in the same email he sent us when threatening to go to the BBB with this as well. We believe that not charging for the service call while the homeowner pays for the glass was fair for both parties as the broken glass was not a result of any negligence from Tiem Builders. 

  Customer response

  16/08/2023

  Hello ******, our response is as follows:
  
  "W/O PREJ: We reject Four Seasons (**) reply to our complaint & apologize for the delayed response as we were travelling. ** contends the settling of the foundation & consequent pressure shattered the glass pane. See PIC 1: inside sunroom & door is plumb. See PIC 2: inside sunroom & floor is level. See PIC 3: outside sunroom sidewalk is poured to elevation of pour strip of concrete foundation & it has not moved/settled. See PIC 4: the foundation was engineered & inspected prior to concrete placement in 2015. I have 45 yrs working in the construction & concrete formwork sector & question how ******************* could comment on the foundation without having set foot in the house to assess. We repeat it was never a warranty issue & an hrly rate was quoted by *********. We did not receive any invoice from **, but news to us customers ** asserts it was in settlement for the pane, which was neither discussed nor agreed between us and **; rather, unilaterally decided and uncommunicated by ** for its neglience. The ** workers were here approx. 3 hrs, with 45 mins-1hr being dedicated to securing the broken pane?
  
   When the ** workers were working at the house and my wife heard their exclamation, she immediately went into the sunroom. She was looking about the room for the problem, when a ** worker pointed to the shattered pane beside the door. She did not see the door hanging out of alignment.
  
  Subsequently, when the ******************* we hired to replace the pane attended, he did elevation & plumb shots & found no issue. He stated the issue was that the rollers on the door needed adjusting & such required a special tool he did not have. Then, the ********  (NW) tech we hired attended & replaced the rollers See PIC 5 and VIDEO 1. It is our understanding that ** is not a certified NW supplier or installer. Why would ** techs be removing door trim for a roller issue? We believe that the ** worker using the stripping bar to pry off the outside wood trim contacted the pane causing it to shatter.  See PIC 6.
  
  Lastly, ** claims it was threatened by us to take ** to the BBB/Small Claims Court, when we simply advised them it was a process reality when a matter is unresolved."
  
  We will have to send pics and video in 2 parts.  Thank you for your consideration.  **** and *************************

  Business response

  29/08/2023

  This project has been out of warranty for over 2 years, from a 5 year warranty on labour. 

  The door was not working and **** requested we send a crew out there for a service call. **** was aware that this service call was on a cost plus basis. 
  While the crew was on site the door dislodged from a pinched position and the glass broke. This was not careless this was unfortunately a risk of working on something that has glass. The crew on site apologized, which they should do regardless of fault. After the glass broke the crew stopped working on the door, cleaned up and left. **** has mentioned another company had to make adjustments as the door was pinched as we have stated.

  **** came by the office in person and said he could have the glass replaced sooner, so we left it at that. **** has not paid for the site visit but has acknowledged this is outside of warranty. For us to pay for the our crew, then the glass and not be compensated makes no sense as this was not our responsibility to fix.  

  As **** is in the industry he knows cost plus means whatever costs we incurred get past onto the client, the replacement glass would have been included as a cost that **** would have been billed for if we had returned but again **** said he could have it completed sooner.

  Customer response

  04/09/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Four Seasons attended our house to service our glass door,which wasnt locking properly, in our glass wall system. 
  
  Four Seasons workers broke 1 of the floor-to-ceiling panes of glass in our glass wall, and left our house. 
  
  To date, we have not been compensated for the repair/replacement of that glass pane, which was NOT cheap. 
  
  But for our follow up, we would not have heard from Four Seasons again.
  
  Four Seasons is making different excuses to avoid paying for its damage.
  
  Four Seasons latest excuse is cost plus. Cost plus requires a signed contract not the case here. 
  
  Costis the agreed hourly charge out, and plus is the cost of materials to fix the issue in this case, the rollers ($30 USD) which we purchased. Plus is NOT the glass pane Four Seasons broke.

  This is our final rebuttal on this issue in this forum.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩