ComplaintsforAuto West BMW

• Initial Complaint

  16/11/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Autowest BMW *** ********** ** **** *** ***** when I tried to bring my car in for service, they said that the transmission malfunction message, and electronic gear shifter not coming out of park is two different problems and each problem diagnostics is equivalent to one hour, at another phone conversation they said they will diagnose other problems if they have time within the one hour of diagnostics. I towed my car in for an appointment time set 8 am, thinking that they will diagnose it in an hour, but they said that I need to leave the vehicle and that the time was set for me to bring the car in, but previously I was told that this is the appointment time and that I can bring the car in anytime beforehand. I left my car there and aftet some time they called me saying that I need to pay an extra 400 for them to add transmission oil otherwise they won't be able to carry on with the dianistics. I refused to pay and after a harsh talk where I was explaining to them that I was responsible for the low fluid and that the problem started before the low fluid, and that regardless the low fluid(2-3) litres would not cause the electronic issues and that the manual did not call for transmission fluid check with the computer codes present, but indicated an electronic problem, which I know because I have access to factory repair manual. After talking with 3 people there, I was told that the car is drivable but that they did not fix the problem, I was also told that the engine timing chain has jumped a tooth and that the timing is incorrect and that the brakes are not working. After, I noticed that there is damage to driver seat, the cd p!ayer is not working, and the loud noises from underneath when the car is hot. Also, the transmission malfunction message continued, only without the transmission going into park. They did not give me the diagnosis for the problem then, and during several attempts afterwards. * ******* **** **** *** ********* ** ******* *** ********** **********

  Business response

  16/11/2023

  Good day,
  We are unaware of any issues with the client regarding his vehicle.
  The last time we saw Mr ******* for any repairs was Oct 9, 2021.
  His history is that he declined the repairs at that time for his out of warranty 2007 *** X5.
  The vehicle was in a state of disrepair and parts of the interior were noted as having been already taken apart.
  We charged the client a discounted total of $196.32 for Work Order ****** (10/09/21) and offered the client a list of concerns found with the car.

  The client declined any repairs at that time and left the dealership.
  

  We offered further discounts for work to be done, but Mr ******* declined.

  We consider the issue closed.

  Kind regards.

  Customer response

  17/11/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  The car was stuck in P and was towed into the Autowest Bmw service centre, but the diagnosis as to why the car was stuck in P was not provided, even though the car was drivable from the service centre. The diagnostics was not carrried out because I refused to pay an extra $400 to top up transmission fluid, which was a condition of Autowest Bmw to continue the diagnostics work, and not the solution of the problems, despite that low transmission fluid (2.5 litres) would not cause stuck gear shifter, nor the transmission control mode obd code. Autowest Bmw at no point indicated that low transmission fluid is the cause of the condition of no drivability. Even in case that low transmission fluid could cause such a cindition, the Autowest Bmw could have used the time available to them to check other components which also could be the cause of the problem and which would be logical to check before handing me such a bill. This is a case of miss diagnosis, which I knew from the start, because as I was telling them I was respinsoble for the low fluid and that the problem occured before the low fluid. For example, in a no start condition it makes ny kind of sense to check the air filter and the spark plugs before invoicing the customer for a fuel pump and battery replacement. What Autowest Bmw decided to do is bill me the huge sum without following the proper diagnostics procedure. I paid for their time to perform the diagnostics, but they decided that they want to harass me and insult me instead. In any case, as I was not willing to pay the 400 extra, they could have used the time for which I paid to diagnose other conditions such as malfunctioning brakes or issue a refund, which they refused. Anyhow, I called back, after I topped up the transmission fluid, and let the manager there know that I still have the same problem of malfunctiining transmission, awd, and dsc and asked whether they will complete the diagnosis. The manager agreed to but added that he would have to charge me again with a discount. I refused saying that I am not going to pay twice for the same service. ***** **** **** **** *** **** ************ *** ***** * ******* ** ** ** * ******* **** ***** ******* * ** ****** ** ******** ***** **** ** **********

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ********************

  Business response

  20/11/2023

  Good day,

  The diagnoistic required the topping up of fluid before we could go further. The client declined. Therefore we could go no further in the diagnosis.

  The vehicle has many sensors in place to prevent damage to the car and may shut down the vehicle if the sensor reports an issue.

  Mr ******** total bill was only $196.32 (Taxes included) to have an experienced Technician review the situation.

  We advised Mr ******* of our process and the need for further diagnosis and he declined. 

  We feel this situation is closed on our end.
  

   

  Customer response

  20/11/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Becuase it is not true that the diagnostics required a fluid top up because the problem was there before the low fluid condition as I have explained many times before. Plus, Autowest BMW did not diagnose the electrical issues with the transmission as there were several OBD codes related to it, and the symptoms were electrical as well. Why Autowest BMW did not diagnose the electrical issues? I agreed to pay for their diagnostic time of one hour but they did not do the work, and refused to issue a refund, and I am experiencing loud noises from the rear differential and intermittent brake problem, after their service. Please, let us see the manual or an email from BMW Germany saying that in case of an electrical failure to check fluid level first. How does it even make sense? *** *** ************ ****** ******** 

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ********************

  Business response

  21/11/2023

  Good day,

  We respectfully have advised the client what our process was. Discounted the work we did do.

  This is all we can do for the client at this time and we request this file be closed.

  Customer response

  21/11/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  As I have already stated, the car went from being inoperable and stuck in Park to drivable that means that Autowest BMW went through a diagnostic process, found the problem, introduced changes which eliminated the problem. Otherwise, it failed at diagnosing the rest of the complaints which is a transmission awd and dsc malfunction message. Despite its claims in the last email, Autowest BMW has never said anything about their "process", nor the brake problem.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ********************

• Initial Complaint

  18/07/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  Had service appointment on Dec 2017 with AutoWest BMW. As part of this appointment, had AutoWest BMW service store summer tires (with allow wheels. On July 15, 2022 scheduled appointment with AutoWest BMW to have summer tires (from storage) mounted and winter tires left in car since I now have a garage to store them. On the morning of July 18, 2022, I received call from "B" at AutoWest BMW that they no longer have my tires and that they were were recycled. "B" claimed: (1) That my responsibilities with respect to tire storage are clearly explained on the invoice. (2) That they notified me by email ******************** and the phone number that they called me on this morning: 778-xxx-xxxx. Regarding (1), responsibilities are NOT explained. I have the original invoice (attached) and there is absolutely no mention of any responsibilities on my part. There is no statement that there the charge is recurring that tires must be picked up within a period of time or else they will be recycled, etc. So, the statement that the invoice describes my responsibilities is a complete lie. Regarding (2), they never notified me by phone or email. When I asked them which email & phone number, they provided "@gmail.com" & 'this number' (778-xxx-xxxx). When I asked them to provide a record (e.g., sent email) that they notified me, "B" replied that they cannot because their "systems were purged". If this was true, how do they have a record of my vehicle going back to the appointment when the tires were stored? They knew it was "2017". Also, I was once told that any *** dealership can call up all service records for the entire history of a vehicle so long as the service was done at an official *** dealership. If they had actually contacted me, it should be in the records which they have. If this info is not in the records, how would they know whether or not they have contacted someone or not.

  Customer response

  18/07/2022

  Hi,

   

  I did attached the invoice to the original complaint, but I am attaching it here again.

   

  Regards,
  *****

   

  Customer response

  19/07/2022

  Desired Resolution: Replacement

  Business response

  19/07/2022

  Good day,

  
  

  It is the clients responsibility to maintain storage fees. Tires were left at dealership for 5 years. Verbal communication at time of the appt was clear that this is season storage and is a bi-annual storage fee. Client was also advised at time of storage that tires were no longer safe and needed to be replaced. Client did not follow up for over 5 years despite attempts to alert client to services due. Invoice also clearly state SEASONAL Tire storage.

  Auto West BMW will not be offering client any remuneration.

  
  

  Kind regards,

  
  

  
  

  Customer response

  19/07/2022

   
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  AutoWestBMW is not being truthful with the facts - they recycled my tires + wheels without sufficient verbal communication and no notification. 
  
  
  AutoWest BMW claims that there was clear verbal communication that this was seasonal storage and there was a bi-annual storage fee. Andrea was my service advisor at that time. It appears Andrea no longer works at AutoWest BMW, so I’m not sure how the responder from AutoWest BMW can be so sure that there was clear verbal communication. 
  
  
  Having stored tires before, it was clear to me that this was seasonal storage and it was clear to me that if I rotated my tires every season, then I would have to pay each time. That is also obvious from the two emails I’m attaching that show I was quoted $100 for installation and storage for one season. It’s also clear from these emails that the summer tires were on rims because the winter tires I was about to put on also have rims.
  
  
  However, there was absolutely no verbal or written communication about what would happen if the tires were kept in storage longer than the initial season. At the time, I wasn’t planning on leaving them in storage longer than one season. AutoWest didn’t proactively offer what would happen if I left them longer than one season either. 
  
  In the phone call with *** from AutoWest BMW, *** claimed that the Invoice clearly states my responsibilities and that is not true. I have provided a copy of the invoice and there is nothing in the invoice that covers my responsibilities or consequences if tires are kept in storage beyond one season. 
  
  
  We would not be in this situation if there had been clear verbal communication or if the invoice was clear regarding my responsibilities with respect to tire storage.
  
  
  AutoWest BMW states that I was advised that the tires were worn and not safe. The invoice is clear the tires are worn and should be replaced, but I don’t recall being told they were unsafe. BTW, I did get my winter tires replaced, followed by a wheel alignment. I don’t recall where that was done, but it was at a *** dealership.
  
  
  I think that AutoWest BMW is mentioning the worn state of the tires to imply that they were not worth anything. However, the summer tires were mounted on BMW allow rims / wheels and BMW rims / wheels are expensive. They are the only part of what was in storage that I care about as the rubber tires did need to be replaced.
  
  AutoWest BMW claims that they made “attempts to alert client to services due”. That is not true. They never sent me mail. I never received an email or a voicemail from them and my email address and phone numbers have not changed. I never had a phone conversation with them. My phone displays caller ID when AutoWest BMW calls and I never saw a missed call from them. If they called from a number that showed up as Unknown and they did not talk to me or leave a voicemail, then that is not sufficient notification / alerting. If AutoWest BMW had actually contacted me, there would be a note in their records somewhere. However, they can’t provide this because they didn’t contact me. 
  
  
  Did I leave my tires+wheels with AutoWest BMW for a ridiculously long time? Yes. I never anticipated leaving them for 4.5 years. Many, many times I thought to make an appointment to get them, but life got in the way. 
  
  
  Should I have at least called AutoWest BMW? Yes, in hindsight. However, I still don’t know what their retention policy was/is. It’s possible that even if I had contacted them even a year later, it might have already been too late.
  
  
  Did I think that AutoWest BMW would store my tires+wheels forever for the initial $100 charge? No. However, my assumption was that I would be required to pay the balance of the storage fees before I would get my tires back, whenever I finally went back to get them. It never crossed my mind that AutoWest would dispose of my tires without notifying me. When I scheduled the appointment last week, I fully expected to have to pay a large amount of money for the additional storage time at my July 22 appointment.
  
  
  Did AutoWest BMW make a mistake and is trying to place the blame entirely on me?  Yes, I think that is exactly what is happening. 

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** *******

  Business response

  20/07/2022

  Good day,

  Further to our internal investigation, we discovered Mr ******* unsubscribed from our communication in Aug of 2019

  This unsubscription request is initiated by the client after contact attempts by Auto West and prevents us from reaching out to any clients as per Privacy laws.

   

  Given these facts and the choices the client made with regard to avoidance of dealing with the obligation and subsequent request for unsubscribing, our responsibility ends.

   

  Kind regards,

   

   

  Customer response

  20/07/2022

   
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  AutoWest can’t say they notified me by phone and email in one response (and by *** on the phone) and then claim they did not or could not notify me because I unsubscribed to communications in another breath. What is the real truth? Their argument about unsubscribing / privacy law is completely ridiculous because only applies to promotional and marketing materials. Furthermore, it would not even apply if the recycling date is before Aug 2019, which I believe it to be.
  
  
  (1) If I unsubscribed to anything, it would have been to promotional or marketing materials, not to important communications about my owned property in AutoWest's possession, unpaid services, outstanding balances, recall notices, etc.. I do not believe that a customer can actually unsubscribe from important notifications regarding: impending disposal of their owned property, unpaid balances, arrival of pre-paid parts, recall information, billing mistakes, etc. That would leave a very silly loophole. 
  
  
  (2) Canadian anti-spam legislation requires AutoWest BMW to provide an unsubscribe mechanism on Commercial Electronic Messages to prevent the transmission of future Commercial Electronic Messages without consent to an electronic address only. It does not apply to physical mail and does does not appear to apply voice calls either. Regardless, it does not apply to non-promotional or non-marketing messages such as this. Please see the legislation here:
  
  
  ***************************************** 
  
  AutoWest BMW was not prevented from contacting me about an unpaid balance or that they were about to dispose of my tires due to privacy laws. 
  
  
  (3) AutoWest BMW has not provided evidence of the actual date(s) that they tried to contact me. Since the storage charge is seasonal as AutoWest BMW likes to point out, I would have begun owing a balance in the summer of 2018 which is well before Aug 2019. Why would they wait until after Aug 2019 to contact me? 
  
  
  (4) AutoWest BMW has not provided information about the date that they recycled my tires plus wheels. If this date is before Aug 2019, then they would have had to notify me 21 or 30 days before date. In that case, again the already invalid unsubscribe argument would not even come into play. I suspect AutoWest recycled my tires+wheels well before Aug 2019.
  
  
  (5) I contacted a lawyer to ask them about this situation in the event I cannot resolve this with AutoWest BMW through BBB. The lawyer mentioned that this is a case of bailment and based on my version of events, I have a good case against AutoWest BMW. 
  
  
  (6)  I researched bailment in British Columbia and found two sites with useful information about bailment / warehousing:
  
  
  *************************************************************************** *****************************************************
  
  
  From these websites, I feel that AutoWest BMW and whatever 3rd party warehouse(s) they used did not fully comply with the law. It seems, as the owner of the goods, I should have been notified (in writing) that a lien was placed against my tires+rims. I should have been notified again (in writing) of the intent to dispose. I should have been given a statement following the disbursement, indicating any proceeds. If the proceeds exceed the lien amount, I should have received them. 
  
  
  All I want is my tires+rims back, no matter what shape the tire portion is and I am willing to pay any outstanding fees. Unfortunately, that’s not possible. However, I present AutoWest with three options to resolve this matter that I think are more than reasonable.
  
  
  Option 1
  —————
  
  
  AutoWest provides:
  
  
  (1) A signed (by me) tire storage contract from 2017 that makes clear what will happen if fees aren’t paid. See this example, from another company, of what a proper tire storage contract looks like: ************************************************************* This example agreement is very clear about what would happen.
  (2) Written evidence / proof that they notified me (dates, times and by what method). Dates of notification should be in compliance with (1)
  (3) Written evidence / proof of the date of recycling with the date being at least 21 days after (2)
  
  
  If AutoWest is able to provide the above, then clearly my recollection is wrong. I will drop this matter completely.
  
  
  (I don’t believe that AutoWest will be able to provide this. I firmly stand by my statement that I did not get any instruction (verbal or written) describing responsibilities or consequence for leaving tires in storage longer than the single pre-paid season AND I firmly stand by my statement that I did not receive any notification from AutoWest BMW.)
  
  
  
  
  Option 2
  —————
  
  
  AutoWest provides compensation in the amount of the value of the rims  / wheels minus unpaid fees due 30 days after the ‘season’ I pre-paid for expired OR the actual recycling date (proof of recycling date required - see item #3 from Option 1).
  
  
  Unpaid fees going into the next season would have been ~$100 + taxes.
  
  
  From a search on the Internet, I see sets of 4 used 17” *** OEM rims for a 2009 ***** costing between $1000 - $1500 Cdn. Taking the low end ($1000) and subtracting unpaid fees, AutoWest BMW would provide a compensation no lower than $888. 
  
  
  If AutoWest provides at least $888 in compensation, I will consider the matter closed.
  
  
  
  
  Option 3
  —————
  
  
  AutoWest provides a set of new or used OEM *** 17” rims that fit my car, are similar in appearance to the recycled rims and are in excellent condition.
  
  
  If AutoWest provides rims that meet this criteria, then I will consider the matter closed.

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** *******

  Business response

  22/07/2022

  Good day,
  
  To put a swift closure to this matter, Auto West will offer the client a good will gesture of $560.00
  
  
  Subtracting the overdue tire storage from March 2018 – July 2022 (8 seasons X $105.00 = $940) from the clients "estimate"
  We will forego the collection of tax and overdue fees.
  
  We will mail a cheque in this amount to the clients address on file.
  
  We feel this goes above and beyond in fairness and will consider the matter closed with no further action or response from our side.

   

  Regards,

   

  Customer response

  22/07/2022

  
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.

   

  Although I can't replace the lost rims with used ones with this "goodwill" money, I accept it.

   

  I continued to use AutoWest BMW (until it was no longer convenient to do so) after they previously did the right thing on another issue regarding my gear shifter. It is good to know that when they make a mistake they (eventually) do make good. A wise person told me "Everyone makes mistakes. It's how they handle the mistakes that is important." 

   

  Please note I have recently moved into a new house (with a separate garage that has enough room to store tires). My new address is:

  **** * **** *** ********** ** *** *** 

  I should still receive the mail if sent to the previous address (the address on file) because I have mail forwarding enabled, but it would be best to use this new address.

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** *******

  Customer response

  15/08/2022

  As part of Complaint #*******, the agreed upon settlement was AutoWest was to mail a cheque for $560 to me. That was on July 22. It is now Aug 15 and the cheque has not been received. Do I open a new complaint that settlement from previous complaint hasn’t been provided?

   

  Regards,
  *****

  Business response

  15/08/2022

  I will confirm with my team if the cheque was mailed or not.

  Please confirm address again.

  Customer response

  19/08/2022

  
  AutoWest BMW asked to confirm my address. Could you please make sure that they receive the following:

   

  Current Address:

  ***** ******* **** **** *** **** ********** ** *** *** 

  If AutoWest happens to use my old address it *should* work because I have maintained mail forwarding on that address continuously since moving. However, it would definitely be best to use my current address.

   

  Sincerely,
  
  ***** *******

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩