Complaintsfor4 Season Pool & Spa Care Inc

• Initial Complaint

  16/10/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Hello there, Please see file review e-mail and response by business before reviewing this complaint. I've listed in short format the result I would like to see: 1. When 4 seasons closed my pool in 2021, I asked about a liner replacement. I was told to call and order it in february. I did so. 2. I have pool stairs. They did not put them back in the pool after they removed them. I paid for them to do so at pool opening. 3. My lights were broken. They are $50 each. No response. 4. Please review the reciept in which I paid for the return jet installation. Please note, in the response written by the store owner, it states that I refused for the repair. I spoke with **** after they had removed my deck parts to work on the return jet. 5. They installed my salt cell and did not pull the *** permit. I have lodged a complaint with the *** as they should have notified me to have a licensed electrician to install this. The *** confirmed that they had not pulled a permit and are investigating. 6. When the technician **** was at my residence installing the salt system, he looked at my skimmer and said it would not need to be replaced. The quote, which I have uploaded, will reflect this. See file dated Feb 7th. 7. You may notice that they would re-do the quotes and the price would stay the same. Pay close attention to different charges for the same service. 8. I was not told "in that area", I was told no warranty, period. 9. I had asked about the coping being replaced, and I was told it was not possible as it was part of my actual pool wall. And I quote from ****, "Some people can cut it but it is part of your pool so it will lose it's integrity". I wanted my coping replaced but was told it can't be done. 10. At my pool opening, I was charged, without consulting, for "leaks" at my sand filter line. There were no leaks. 11. Please contact me for more information at *************. The attachments should prove their deceit. This is not right.

  

  Business response

  18/10/2022

  The client called our company to receive a quote to replace his liner. In the DocuSign contract it states Major repairs to the clients pool will be discussed and agreed upon with the client before proceeding. These repairs may be unseen until the liner is removed or as the technicians are working. The client agreed to all of the terms outlined in the agreement and we proceeded with the work. Our company has never assured any of our clients that there will be zero repairs to make prior to removing the liner.Originally, the client refused any repairs/replacement of the skimmer. After our company removed the liner and pressure tested the lines to determine if there were any problem areas, a leak in the skimmer had been found. Our technician did explain to the client that if we replace the liner without repairing the skimmer, we would not warranty the liner installation in that area, however, all other warranty items (i.e. seems, discolouration) would still be under warranty. The client decided to proceed with the skimmer repair.Another pressure test was performed on the return line and a leak was found 4 feet from the pool under the deck. Out technician advised the client of the leak and that it will cause issues with water getting under the liner which will lead to the liner floating. The client refused to allow us to complete the repair. He said he would deal with the leak himself.Our technician also recommended the coping around the pool be replaced. The client refused because it meant a portion of the deck surrounding the pool would need to me removed for our technicians to have access to the existing coping. The coping that surrounds the pool is what holds the liner in place. The client is now stating his liner has come out of the track. This was definitely a possibility with the coping not being replaced. The bubbling the client is now noticing is water getting under the liner from the leak 4 feet from the side of the pool. The client mentioned the jets have less pressure coming from them now. The new eyeballs and lock-rings for the jet were installed properly. The previous jet had a smaller opening; therefore, the decrease in pressure is noticeable but the volume of water remains the same. In the DocuSign contract Final payment is due upon completion of the liner installation and/or repairs while the service team is still on site. The client contacted us while the technicians were on site finishing up their work and told our store manager there was an agreement to make installment payments. There was no such agreement made and the owner of our company did ask why he lied about payment options. The client also stated he should have 30 days to pay like all the other companies he has delt with recently. We are not other companies. We did, however, create an amendment to the payment terms which he did not sign and came to our store and paid the final bill in person the day of completion, after hours. To clarify another point made by the client, the money to date the client has spent with our company is $13,700. We recently received an email from the client regarding the liner coming out of the track. We asked for a picture of the liner not the jets, as stated in the clients remarks, so we could show the technicians prior to returning and fixing the liner. We have zero intention of not completing the work. We did tell the client that our technicians are busy with closing pools for the winter and that repairs will be completed later in October or early November. In the same email, the client stated Talk to my wife only. Im done with your company and I am going to reach out to some of my connections at [local news station] and let them know the experience Ive received from your end. Since this email, we have only been in contact with his wife. We have told her we have created a work order for the technician to return and we will be in contact again once we can confirm a date. The clients wife has been very pleasant to communicate with.Pool owners put a lot of money into their investments. We help to maintain their investments and help fix them when things go wrong. We do not suggest unnecessary costly alterations. This pool had a lot of necessary repairs that we strongly advised to fix. This client will continue to have problems with their pool unless these issues are taken care of. Unfortunately, we are not the first pool company this client has targeted with a bad review.

  

  Business response

  31/10/2022

  
  The client has accused our company of not reviewing or addressing the documents provided. We are addressing everything he has mentioned.
  
  First to address the liner warranty.  ******’s warranty is very clear on what is covered for manufacturing defects.  We are not disputing this. The signed DocuSign Agreement states “4 Season Pool & Spa Care Inc. offers a 1-year warranty on labour “.  “4 Season Pool & Spa Care Inc. will not be liable for any damages or issues as a direct result of not addressing the suggested repairs.”  We cannot guarantee our work when there are known issues that were not addressed by the client.  As is the case with the replacement of the coping and the leak 4 ft from the pool deck.  The client’s backyard has a downward slope, the leak is at the top of the yard and flowing down towards the pool.  The water is pooling under the liner. The pooling is causing the liner to lift and come out of the coping.
  We are not disputing revised estimates.  That is why they are called estimates, subject to change as required.  It clearly stated in the signed DocuSign agreement and on the estimates that additional repairs are extra.  For example, Service Grout Repairs on the final Sales Receipt.  This is not something we put on the estimate because it varies from pool to pool.  Some pools may require minor or major amount of grout repair.  That is why we state in section 5 of our agreement “These repairs may be unseen until the liner is removed or as the technicians are working.”  (See the attached signed agreement.)
  Yes, the Client has provided documents, we are not disputing them.  We will explain each one submitted by the client.  Sales Receipt for a pool opening (June 10). It states on the receipt (6th line of the item: Opening-Silver) “Start the system and inspect the equipment for leaks” The client was on site the entire time we were there. He was told there were multiple leaks to address. As agreed, we then replace three plumbing parts. The drop in steps were not put in during the opening as we normally would do. The client’s pool was green in the fall and still green by spring of 2022. If we put the step in, the client would not be able to clean the liner fully. Client was made aware.
   October 2021 document was for the pool closing. The final sales receipt reflects the same with an addition of the Gizzmo used to plug and winterize the skimmer.  Client did not have a Gizzmo on location at the time of closing. (See the attached receipt)
  
  The Feb 1/22 document was the initial liner replacement quote.   It is a rough estimate including the cost of the liner, initial repairs to skimmer and the coping to be determined later. We did combine the skimmer repair and the liner installation and the required additional parts on the same line.
  The May 7/22 document was a revised estimate. The client asked for the estimate without the skimmer repair. We complied, kept the items separate compared to the original estimate. The reason the two amounts look similar is because the Salt system, its installation and the bags of salt were added to the revision. The items related to the salt system were removed and added to the pool opening sales receipt (June 10). The salt system was installed at the time of the pool opening in the spring 2022.
   The estimates and the final sales receipt state “All additional required repairs will be discussed with the customer and will be an additional cost.”  The liner had been removed to reveal damage to the walls and major grout repair would be required. The lines were tested to reveal two problem areas. One at the skimmer and a return line near the skimmer (deep end of the pool). The initial repairs were completed. We double checked the lines again and that’s when the second leak was found in the return line at the shallow end of the pool. A discussion did take place between the client and the technician, and the leak was not repaired as per the client’s request. The finale Sales Receipt also shows both a decrease in the skimmer repair by $1000 and the Liner Installation Parts by $150 from the original estimate.
  We’d like to clarify the clients remark “being told my coping CANNOT be replaced…” The coping could have been replaced if a portion of the deck was dismantled to give the technicians access as it butts up against the pool edge (see photo provided-taken Nov 4/21).
  We have been in direct communication with the BBB throughout this entire process to ensure we respond accordingly and truthfully.  As for the cut and paste comment, the client first put forth a poor review of our company on a Friday. A response from our company was submitted during the weekend.  On the following Monday, we received notification a complaint was filled by the same client.  The BBB explained to us that a complaint supersedes the poor review and would require action.  It was agreed that the original answer to the poor review was to be the initial response.  The representative then copied our response from the review and submitted it against the complaint on our behalf.
  To continue with “TELL THE TRUTH”.  Yes, we did plumb in the Salt System. The sales receipt reflects this.  In full disclosure, this client did contact the ********** ****** ********* on October 17/22 regarding the Salt System, 4 months after the installation.  We have been in touch with the *** and are working with them to ensure everything is according to their standards.
  
  
  The liner was installed, the initial repairs were completed, and a leak was not repaired.  All at the request of the client. Yes, the client paid on the day of the liner installation after multiple calls trying to get a month-long extension for the payment (not agreed to on the signed DocuSign agreement). Our store manager stayed past closing (18:00) for the client to complete the final payment at 18:47.
  Now to address the other comments made by the client:
  Advised to contact us in February to ask for a quote:   We provided the quote in February. The liner selection decided on and ordered June 1. Attempted to install the liner in July but the client was out of town. The liner was installed August 10/22.
  Pool stairs not put back into the pool during the opening. Addressed this earlier in this reply.
  Broken lights after the opening. These lights are not wired in, they turn on from the water moving through the jet. These lights simply screw into the jet.  This addition to the jet makes the opening smaller making the pressure more noticeable.  After the liner installation, because of the leak, we didn’t want to add extra pressure through the line making the leak worse. If the client wants the stronger pressure, all he needs to do is screw them back in place. Neither service crew that closed the pool in Nov 2021 or during the opening in 2022 recall seeing these lights.  The lights were only removed during the liner replacement stage. If something was broken, our crew would have mentioned it.
  Review receipts to show repair to a return:  Not disputing this at all. Yes, the deep end return repair was completed with the skimmer. However, the second repair to the return at the shallow end was not repaired at the client’s request. The client told our service technicians “I’ll deal with it”.
  Filed a complaint with the ***:  Addressed this earlier in this reply.
  Telling the client, the skimmer would not need to be replaced:  We cannot make a statement like that without testing lines and/or removing the liner. Our documents reflect this.
  Redo the quotes:  Yes, we did, as addressed earlier in this reply.
   Warranty:   Address earlier in this reply.
  Replacing the coping:  The client stated the additional cost to remove & replace the deck and replacing the coping was out of his budget.
  Pool opening extra charges to fix a leak:   Addressed earlier in this response.
  The client is using bullying tactics to get a refund from our company. Drawing on anything he can think of over the last year.  We are a small family company who tries to do the best we can, working with our clients so they can enjoy their pools year after year.  We strongly suggest repairs that will prolong the life of a pool and the system that operates it.  We explain to our clients what will happen with or without the repairs.  We do not force repairs on our clients.  It is very unfortunate so many issues happened all at once with this pool.
  There will be no refund for the custom fit liner, the installation or any repairs made. We stand by our work. If the client contacts another company to remove the new liner, it will be at the client’s cost.  If the client is no longer happy with the salt system, we will have a licensed electrician remove it from the property.
  We will work with the client to make the final repair to the return line at a fair rate and tuck the liner back into place.  If the client does not agree to this, we will still go back in November 2022 and tuck the liner back into place as previously agreed to with the client’s wife and not address the leak.  No matter which decision the client makes, this will be the last interaction 4 Season Pool & Spa Care Inc will have with this client (other than what is stated in the signed DocuSign agreement).  The client will 

  Customer response

  31/10/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  I am rejecting this response because:

  The owner is clearly not taking this complaint seriously. My coping is damaged and I wanted it replaced and was told by YOUR technician **** that it could not be done. In my e-mail on Feb 1 2022, the subject is clearly indicating confusion brought forth by 4 Seasons as well as the subject is the SKIMMER. Without any context and just a picture, this is simply a blatant disregard of my time and the BBB's time.

  If it was known that it could not be done, then why was the job proceeded with to ultimately provide me with no warranty? And why do I have to go to these lengths to have my rights respected?

  To the Better Business Bureau, this is a waste of time as the owner is not taking this very seriously. As requested again, this goes against the code of conduct of the BBB and their rating should be reduced due to providing incorrect and shady business practices.

  My wife has requested a refund and, if wanted, for 4 seasons to tear out the pool liner and we all go our separate ways. I do not trust their workmanship and they are not a company interested in providing better business.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** ******

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