ComplaintsforJMF Plumbing

• Initial Complaint

  24/04/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  My name is **** *******  I am bringing a complaint against JMF Plumbing to Better Business Bureau (BBB). * **** ***** ** ***** **** ******** *** ***** ****** *****. In this document I will refer to **** as the representative from JMF Plumbing. He was the plumber that did the work. On December 20th, 2022 I had **** *** ******* come in to investigate an error code 14. ***** ** my invoice from them stating the work that they completed. Nowhere did it mention that I had control board issues and the plumber did some other testing. He states he tested the furnace and perhaps that included testing the control board. (Control board test takes about 5 minutes. **** ******** ********  This is important as all of this information is part of this compliant. I want to make it clear I had no struggles with **** * *******. It is also important that you see they would clean the finance and the air condition for $159. **** cleaned the burners for $144. My daughter had given me ****’s contact information and when I got the second error code I called JMF Plumbing (****). I thought maybe he could fix my furnace. **** came to my house and he had no tools. I was watching him as he looked at the furnace. Within five to ten minutes he told me it was the control board. I was very concerned about how he could figure that out without testing anything. I asked him nicely if he was sure. Yes he told me. Of course at that time I did not have a clue that he did not do the required testing for a control board. I was desperate to get my furnace fixed as I could not leave my house in the extreme cold. I found out after I started researching online that I was a victim of poor workmanship. I spend weeks researching error code 14 and watch many videos. *** ********* ** * ******* ***** ** **** * ******* ****** *******************************************  ** **** ***** *** ******* ** ***** * ******* ***** ** ***** *** ****** **** *** *** ** **** ***** ** *** ** ******** ** ***** **** *** * ******* ***** **** **** *** ***** ** * ****** **** * ******* **** *** *** ******* ** ***** * ******** *** *** ******** **** *** **** **** ***** ******* ***** *** ******* ***** ***** * ******* ***** *** *** ******* ** **** ***** ** *******. I did not do this research until **** had put a new board into the furnace and I got another error code. **** failed to do the proper checking and I ended up with a control board I did not need. **** installed the control board on January 19th, 2023. The following is list of error codes by date following the installation of the control board: • Jan 26 error code 23 • Jan 29 furnace shut off • Jan 30 error code 14 (4 times) • Jan 31 error code 14 **** came out Feb 1st and installed a flame sensor. (Probably not needed but it was purchased in the above invoice. The error codes continued: • Feb 08 error code 14 • Feb 09 error code 14 • Feb 10 error code 14 • Feb 26 error code 14 • Feb 27 error code 14 **** came out again March 1st and cleaned the burners as I had asked him to do. I also had the furnace manual out on the page out lining trouble shooting for error codes. He did not follow it. It is a simple flowchart that explains what to test and then to proceed in other testing etc. In fact I always had the manual opened on the trouble shooting page for error codes every time he came out. My thought was when he told me that he was going to bill me was that **** had not fix anything. He mentions on the invoice that it could be the gas valve. **** told me that if I get another error code I could order a third party gas valve from ****** or someplace like that and he would install it at no charge. I recorded what he said in my furnace notes. Once I got another error code, I searched ****** for gas valve Model **********  They did not have it so I told **** to pick me one up. *** *** ***** ****** ** **** **** * ** ******* *** *****. You will not find this gas valve model but you will find similar models. The control board continued to display the error codes: • March 11 error code 14 • March 18 error code 14 • March 19 error code 14 • March 20 error code 14 • March 21 error code 14 (3 times) • March 23 error code 14 • March 24 error code 14 • March 25 error code 14 • March 26 error code 14 (2 times) • March 27 error code 14 • March 28 error code 14 (2 times) • March 29 error code 14 (2 times) • March 30 error code 14 (2 times) On March 21st I asked **** what it cost him for the gas valve and his text said 225 plus tax. But in the text he mentioned installation cost too. I asked him to call me and he did. I told him he said he would do the gas valve installation at no charge. He said he never said that but told me he would sell me a gas valve at cost. **** ** *** ****. I made notes of our conversation and it was clear he told me I could pick up a gas valve on ****** and he would install it at no cost even if it was a third party gas valve. If you look at the dates and error codes you can see clearly the original control board was not the issue. **** should never have installed the new control board. The new board is displaying the same errors as the original control board. This clearly shows that the original control board was functioning correctly. **** did not test the control board to see if it was malfunctioning. In fact, **** appears to be guessing at what was causing the error codes. I knew for the last few months that **** made a major error when installing a control board I did not need. When I mentioned anything about my dissatisfaction **** just got angry. I was angry that he did such a poor job. Going back to the previous plumbers work. He never mentioned a control board. He followed the flow chart in the manual. The flame sensor probably was a problem but not the only problem. The original control board was just doing its job and displaying errors. The proof that the original control board was doing its job and the new control displayed the same errors shows that the control board replacement was not necessary. With the control valve, I will not paid for his labour as it was covered in his last invoice. I will pay for the gas valve. * **** *** *** ******* *** ** ** ******* ** ** ***** ** *** *** ***** ** ** ** ***** ** ***** ******* ** ******* ***. I would like **** to give me my money back for the control board that I did not need. * ***** *** ** ** *** * ****** ** *** ****** ******** ******* **** * **** ** ****** ** ********* ** ***** *******  I am asking for 600 dollars for the control board that I did not need. **** *** **** *** ********** ******** ** ******** ** *** ********** **** ******** ***** *** ** ******** *** ******* ******* * ******* ** ** ********* * ******** ******** *** *** ** *** ********** ********* **** ** *** **** ******* *** ***** **** **** ******* ** *** * ******** *** **** ******* **** told me is he doesn’t work for free. Well I do not pay a person who has already been well paid for work I did not need. * **** ***** ********* ** ** ***** **** *** *** **** ********. In my letter I will ask him for the following documents: • His cost for the control board. • His cost for the gas valve. **** total work on my furnace is very small to his excessive charges. Here is a summary of his work: • First day after looking at the finance and doing no testing he determined it was the control board. • Second time he installs the control board which took 10 minutes. He did test the gas valve. • Third time he cleaned the burners. Did some testing and installed a flame sensor. (I could install a flame sensor in 2 minutes). Remember that I could have hired another company to clean the whole furnace and the error conditioner for $159 as quoted in the receipt at the top of this document. **** * ******* would clean the following: • Flame sensor • Flame Ignitor • Burners • Condensing box • Heat exchanger • Check all electrical parts with a volt meter to ensure they are within specifications • Lubricate furnace parts as required • Check the gas valve pressure • Check the fuses on the control board • Clean the air conditioner • Etc There is no call out fee. It is about a 2 hour job. Now **** only did three of these: • He cleaned the flame sensor. (The flame sensor was already cleaned). • He cleaned the burners. • He checked the gas valve. This was on two visits. *** ******* *** ********** *** *** ****** ****** ** **** **** ** ***. **** **** ** **** ** * **** * *** ******* * ***** *** ** ******* *** ***** *** ******* *** ** *** * *** ******* ****** * *** *** ***** **** *** ******** ** *** ******* *** ********* ** ***** ****** ** **** ** ** ***** *** * *** *** ** **** ******* ******* *** ***** ** ***** **** **** ***** ******  I just wrote down what he said as I have since I figured out he installed a control board I did not need. **** should have tested every component in the furnace when he came here the first time. Instead he did not test anything and stated I needed a control board. **** did not even have a wire brush when I asked him to clean the burners. He appeared to only do a small amount of testing and never followed the flowchart in the user manual for the furnace until I insisted on it for the third time. * ** *** **** ** ** ******** *** ** *** *****. ** *** **** ** *** **** **** ** ******* *** *** **** ********* ******** *** **** ***** ****** *** *** ** *** *** ******** ******* **** *** * **** ** *** ** *** *** *******. * ***** *** ** ******* ** ** ** **** ******** ** *** ******

  Business response

  24/04/2023

  **** *** **** * **** ********* ******** ** **** ****, I followed all proper protocols in regards to repairing his furnace, this former client told me many times that he had watched many ******* videos and insisted on telling me how to do my job. I tested everything very thoroughly, and came up with conclusions based off of my findings. He insisted i do the work and was charged accordingly. His furnace worked every time I tested and the code he referenced in his complaint never actually came up when I had made repairs to his furnace. **** ****** ****** **** ********** **** ** *** ****** ******* ***** *********** ** ***** ****** *****. Despite all efforts on my part to explain my findings he refused to accept what I had to say and referred to *** **** videos he had seen in regards to the issue. He demanded I do free work for him and upon the final service call he refused to pay the full cost of the invoice. I told him I would give him the part for wholesale cost but never once said labour would be free. **** *** **** ******** ****** *** ************ ** ********* **** ** **** ** ***** ******** 

  Customer response

  24/04/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: 

  This is my response to ****.  First I started watching plumber videos after **** installed a control board I did not need.  I was not a difficult customer and did make suggestions like for him to follow the manual for the furnace.  I was concerned that I had hired a plumber that was taking advantage of me.

  **** ** ***** ***** ******* **********.  When he decided I need a new control board he had done no testing.  The fact the furnace continued giving the same error codes after **** installed the new control board is proof of a failure on his part.  He did not have a voltage meter with him to test the currents going to various parts of the furnace from the control board and the currents going into the control board. He was only at my place 20 minutes the day he decided I needed a control board.  I watched him the whole time.  No testing and no equipment but a device that tested gas leaks in the air.

  He said he tested everything thoroughly and that is not true.  The control board was never tested.

  He states that “His furnace worked every time I tested and the code he referenced in his complaint never actually came up when I had made repairs to his furnace”. This is crazy.  The furnace error codes happened a few times a day or once a day as in my initial report indicates.  I can’t make the furnace do an error code for ****.  But obviously there was a problem.  *** ***** * ******* **** **** ******* ** ********  ** ***.  I have not had an error since the gas valve was installed.  **** **** ***** ***** **** * ******* ** **** *** *** * ******* ** ** *** *********** *********  ****.

  **** says “Despite all efforts on my part to explain my findings he refused to accept what I had to say and referred to *** **** videos he had seen in regards to the issue.”   **** ** * **** ******* ********.  Of course I referred to plumber videos because **** was not fixing anything.  I only started the videos after I knew he installed a control board that I did not need.  *** ******* ***** ***** *** *****.  Never once did he say that the new control board was a mistake.  Or the installation of the flame sensor.  *** ********* ********* **** **** ****** **** **** ** *** ********* **** ** **** *** *** ******* ***** **** ** **** *** *** *** *****

  ***** **** **** **** ***** *** ******** ********* ** **** *** ** ******* *** *****. *** ******* ***** ****** ** ****** *******  **** *** ******** ** *** ***** *** ******* *** *******.  He did testing after the new control board was installed and I am not sure if it was competent.   ***** ********* **** ***** ****** *** ****** **** **** ** *** ******* *** ******

  **** **** ***** *** **** ******** ****** *** ************ ** ********* **** ** **** ** ***** *********  * ***** **** ** * ******** ******* ** * ******** ****** **** *****  ******* * *** ***** **** *** ***** **** * ***** *** ********  * ***** * **** **** **** ********** **** *** *********** **** * **** ** ********* * ******* ***** *** * ***** ****** * *** *** *****

  I was not a difficult customer as I was inquisitive about what was wrong and what it would cost me.  *** *********** ****** ***** ** *** **** ***. **** **** *** **** ********* ***** *** ****.  ****** ** *** *** ** *** **** **** *** **** ****** **** ****. 

  **** **** ***** ****** ****** **** ********** **** ** *** ****** ******* ***** *********** ** ***** ****** *******  * *** *** ** *** * *** ******* ** ****** * ********** ** ***** *** ** ******** *** **** ****** *** ** ****** **** *** ******* ** ** **** **** *****  **** ** *** ******* *** **** *** ** ******** ** **** ********** ** ** ******* *** * *** ******* ** **** ** ***** *** *******

  * *** **** **** ******** ** *** **** *** *** ********* ****** ******  **** **** *** ******* ***** ***** *** ***** *** **** ******** ******* **** ** ***** ** *** **** ** ******* ** ***** ** **** ******  ** ** * **** ****  *** ** *** **** ** ***** *** *** *****.

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** ******

   

  ********* ** ********** ********* ******* **** *** ******** **** ****  **** *** *****  **** ******* *****

  Business response

  25/04/2023

  The first service call I was there that for I tested everything, and found that signal was dropping at the board. You can deny that all you want but that is fact. I showed all my meter readings showing voltage where it should be. I also tested gas pressures showing what it was on the gas valve at the time. I followed standard procedures. I went over several times what the manufacturer recommended in regards to that error code. *** *** ** *** * ****** **** ** ***** ** * **** *** ****

  And in regards to my pricing on parts the consumer does not get wholesale pricing, would you go to any store and demand wholesale pricing on their product. 

  I have a standard markup on all my products. As does everyone in the industry. And once again the former client is expecting my time to be free in trying to find matching parts for a 10 year old furnace going to obtain the parts and installing them which is all built into the price. The former client also had the ability to contact any number of companies to get a second opinion. The work was agreed to and performed based off the information through testing and manufacturer recommendations in the installation manual. The client can dispute that through ******* videos but I followed standard procedures none the less. 

  ****** ** ********* ** ********* ** *** ******** ******* ** ******* ** ********** ********** ** ** ******** ****** *** ****** ** ***** *** ** ***** ** **** ********** ** *** ******* ** *** *** ***** ** *** ***** ******* ******* ** **** ******* *** *** *** **** ****   

  Customer response

  26/04/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I read ****’s response.  ** ** *** **** ** *** ** *** *****.  **** did not have a voltage meter or a gas meter for testing on the first day he arrived.

  **** said “The first service call I was there that for I tested everything, and found that signal was dropping at the board. You can deny that all you want but that is fact. I showed all my meter readings showing voltage where it should be. I also tested gas pressures showing what it was on the gas valve at the time. I followed standard procedures. I went over several times what the manufacturer recommended in regards to that error code. *** *** ** *** * ****** **** ** ***** ** * **** *** ***.”

  *** **** *** **** ** ** *****  I did not have the manual out on the first day he arrived so he would have no access to what the voltage should be on the control board components for testing.  **** ** *** *** ** ***** *** **** ** ** **** ******* **** ******* *** *** ********* **** **** ** ******  ***** ** **** ***** *** ** ******* *** ******  **** ** **** ********

  **** states “And in regards to my pricing on parts the consumer does not get wholesale pricing, would you go to any store and demand wholesale pricing on their product.”

  But **** stated he gave me the gas valve at cost.  That was in his previous response.  I paid 225 and taxes for the gas valve that was his price for me.  He told me he would install the gas valve at no cost.  Later he changed it that I would only pay for the gas valve at his cost but I held him to the installation at no cost.  Well I found out that the gas valve was less than 160 dollars.  That is what **** paid.  ** **** *** **** ** *** ** ** ** *******.  ****** * ***** *** **** ** **** * ***** *** ***** **** **** *****  *** **** **** *** *********** **** ** **** ********** **** *** ******* ** ****** **** ** ********  ** **** ***** ** * *****

  *** ***** * **** ***** *** ***** * ******* *** ***** *** *****  ** ** ****** **.  The first day **** came over I watched everything he did.  He did not have a gas meter or a voltage meter.  He had a gas detector for leaks.  * ***** ** ****** *******.  Basically, he open the furnace door and watch it run.  Then he said it was the control board and I started with my questions as I have mentioned before because I was skeptical.  His total time here was less than 30 minutes.  To check the gas valve like he stated would have required tools but he didn’t have any with him.  So his first visit here was his determination that I needed a control board. Which I didn’t.  The control board was installed as I previously stated.  I made sure that he understood that I knew from watching plumbers installing control boards it was a simple job.  I also watched him install the control board.

  ** *** ** **** **** ****.  Next is the control board which continued to display error code 14.  I recorded every occurrence of the error codes displayed in my notes.  Now a control board is just a computer circuit that monitors the functions of the furnace.  The control board is another source for determining the truth.  The error message were identical to the original control board.  It is easy to conclude that there was something else wrong with the furnace.  T****** **** ** ***** ***** **** determined it was the gas valve.  At this point there really was not any other components that I can think based on my research it could have been causing the error code 14.  Once the gas valve was installed the control board did not display any error codes.  Thus it was fixed.  The control board by displaying the same error code showed that there was some component causing a problem.  **** **** ** *** ****** **** **** ****** **** **** ** ***** ***** *** ******** ******* ***** ************

  **** states “I have a standard markup on all my products. As does everyone in the industry. And once again the former client is expecting my time to be free in trying to find matching parts for a 10 year old furnace going to obtain the parts and installing them which is all built into the price. The former client also had the ability to contact any number of companies to get a second opinion. The work was agreed to and performed based off the information through testing and manufacturer recommendations in the installation manual. The client can dispute that through ******* videos but I followed standard procedures none the less.”

  Really I do not see the relevance of his response.  I cannot say whether **** follows standard procedures when working with other clients that he has but I can say that nothing he did here was following procedures I watched other professionals do online.  ***** **** ***** **** ** **** *** *** ***** ********* *** ****** ** *** ***** ********* ** ******* *** ******* ***** *** *** ***** *** **** ***** *********

  **** **** ******* ** ********* ** ********* ** *** ******** ******* ** ******* ** ********** ********** ** ** ******** ****** *** ****** ** ***** *** ** ***** ** **** ********** ** *** ******* ** *** *** ***** ** *** ***** ******* ******* ** **** ******* *** *** *** **** *****

  ***** **** ** **** * ******* **********  ** ******

   

  In ****’s first response he stated “**** *** **** * **** ********* ******** ** **** ****, I followed all proper protocols in regards to repairing his furnace, this former client told me many times that he had watched many ******* videos and insisted on telling me how to do my job. I tested everything very thoroughly, and came up with conclusions based off of my findings. He insisted i do the work and was charged accordingly. His furnace worked every time I tested and the code he referenced in his complaint never actually came up when I had made repairs to his furnace. **** ****** ****** **** ********** **** ** *** ****** ******* ***** *********** ** ***** ****** *****. Despite all efforts on my part to explain my findings he refused to accept what I had to say and referred to *** **** videos he had seen in regards to the issue. He demanded I do free work for him and upon the final service call he refused to pay the full cost of the invoice. I told him I would give him the part for wholesale cost but never once said labour would be free. **** *** **** ******** ****** *** ************ ** ********* **** ** **** ** ***** *******.”

  I was reviewing my notes.  **** did something and I am not sure what but he simulated a code 14.  Which is fine but he had to induce it.  He told me this but I never saw it happen.  He might of unplugged one of the components.  I did cover the error codes in my previous response so is it not important enough to repeat.  *** ***** ** ********* ** **** ******* **** ** ********  ***** *** *** ********* **** ** ****** ****** ** **** ** *** ****** **** ****** **** * ** ******* *** *** **** * ** * *****  * **** ***** ***** **** * **** ** **** **** ******* ** ****** ******** ** * ***** **** *** **** *** ******* ** ** **** ********* *** ******* ******* *** * ****** ** ******* ***  ** ***** **** ** ** ***** **** ** ******* *****

  This is the final chapter of this event.  **** can paid me 600 dollars and end this dispute.  If we go to court he will need to provide the actual price of the gas valve.  * ******* **** *** ****** *** * ***** **** *** *** **.  **** **** ** *** ***** **** ** ****** *** *** ******* ******** ********* *** ** ******  ***** ******** **** **** *** ******* ****** ** *** * **** ** ***** ** *** *********** ******** ** ******* ** ****** **** **** ************** *********

   

  * **** ******** * **** ************ **** *****  * *** ** *** **** * ****** ***** ** ** ******* * ******* ***** **** **** ***** ** ** *** *** *** *** ***** **** ** **** **** **** *** ****

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** ******

  Business response

  08/05/2023

  **** **** ** ** **** ********. I did bring in my meter and showed **** all the readings regarding micro amp draw and volt readings and also brought in a manometer to test gas gas pressures, as well as a Co detector and gas sniffer. At this point its his word against mine. And when I made the repair to the furnace it did not throw a code while I was there outside of the initial diagnoses. **** can say all he wants I didn't bring in a meter when in fact I did and fully tested everything. But **** knows better because he watched *** **** videos. The fact of the matter is the last invoice he decided to pay what he wants to pay. I did not pay 160 for the gas valve it was more than that. ** ** ** **** ***** ****** ***** ** ** *** *** ********* ** ******* ** *** ********** 

  I will no longer be responding to this as I did everything to rectify the problem as per manufacturer recommendations. 

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩