ComplaintsforJ & G Sales Ltd

• Initial Complaint

  02/10/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased a rifle advertised on the website as a No1MkIII Enfield gunsmith special.The cost was $530 which is appropriate for this model in questionable condition.The rifle I received was a copy made in the Khyber Pass region of ********, not a true Enfield.This copy is NOT what was advertised. When provided with evidence that I had received a fake (photos, measurements, etc.) I was told that the rifle was sold as a historical reference only and they would not accept a return and would not refund my money. Usually when a company sells a historical item and it turns out to be a forgery, this is called fraud, but J&G stood their ground and refused to take it back.

  Business response

  02/11/2022

  The customer ordered the item on Sept 1, 2021. The item was described as follows:

  "******* #1 MKIII* bolt action rifle chambered in 303 British. This Enfield has a buttstock socket that is marked with a crown over G.R.I. (*********************** Imperator), ****, SHT LE, and III*. It has a dark bore with matching numbers on the receiver, rear sight, and nose cap. The bolt is functional but has a frozen safety, magazine cutoff, and magazine. Has a rust/patina metal finish with a stock that shows heavy use. The buttstock is loose, has a brass buttplate and brass unit marked ID disc. The fore-end between the receiver and lower band is wrapped with red painted lace on a leather cover. Includes a vintage leather sling. This rifle has serial number 89XX and is C&R eligible. It is sold for historical reference as a gunsmith special, AS-IS with no returns. Used. GSS.

  
  ATTENTION: Gunsmith Specials must be checked and certified safe before firing, by a certified competent gunsmith. Sold as is, no returns, no refunds, and no exchanges."

  Everything mentioned in the above description is as the item was shipped. The item was "sold for historical reference as a gunsmith special, AS-IS with no returns."

  J&G offers a 30 day inspection period for customers to review items and request a return. The customer contacted us 90 day later, past the 30 day return period, to request a return for an item that was sold "AS-IS with No Returns".

  Thank you.
  

  Customer response

  02/11/2022

   

  Thank you for your rapid response. The description listed here is what was on the website. This is not in dispute. I understand that there is a no return, sold as is policy. My complaint is simply this:

  The rifle I received is not a No4mkIII Enfield.

  It is a forgery and this can be documented numerous ways including significant deviation in part sizes from factory specs.

  You cannot sell an item as a historical reference when it is not the item you advertise. This is fraudulent, unethical, dishonest, and illegal.

  You cannot identify these forgeries by examining factory proof marks. That is the whole point of making a copy. But these are not rare; in fact collectors have documented the many ways that a Khyber pass rifle differs from a real Enfield. I have provided evidence that solidly proves this is a forgery and I can provide more if needed. I have compared part dimensions to factory standards and have provided a summary of them to J&G Sales. This is beyond debate. The rifle is a fake, but I was charged for a real Enfield which are at least 4X more valuable.

  If J&G Sales is now in the business of passing off Khyber Specials as real Enfield Rifles, the collecting community needs to be made aware. One of the main differences between these rifles is questionable material quality and heat treating. A Khyber Pass rifle should never be fired. Even new they were unsafe. A real Enfield can be used for parts or restored by a competent gunsmith. Parts from a Khyber Pass forgery are handmade in a workshop using a real Enfield as a guide, and although the parts look similar they are not compatible with any other rifle. This, combined with the metallurgy issue makes these practically worthless.

  Business response

  02/14/2022

  We dispute the customers findings, the gun was inspected, it is not a "Kybar Pass" fake, and we stick by our description. The gun was sold as-is, not to be fired, with no returns.

  Customer response

  02/14/2022

  Saying it is not a fake does not make it true.

   

  I have provided evidence that it is not a true Enfield rifle.

  A real Enfield would match ******* manufacturing specs

  On closer inspection with some calipers it became obvious that many critical parts were out of spec for ******* or true Ishapore rifles. Below are some initial results:
  1. charger bridge is 0.1" to thick front to back
  2. receiver is nearly 0.5" too long
  3. Barrel diameter is 0.1" too wide at the muzzle
  4. bolt body is 0.2" too long
  5. Long bolt lug is ****" too short

  A real Enfield would also:

  have a functional stripper clip guide

  have machined parts, not hand forged ones

  have a notch cut in the top/front end of the barrel

  have a pin hole in the front sight base

  have machined threads cut on the side of the rear sight ladder

  have a functional rear sight adjustment k*** (the one on the copy is a shape carved into the sight ladder to look like a knob)

  The list of evidence goes on. The "expert" who evaluated this rifle is out of his depth, or lazy. The evidence provided is real, not a feeling, or regret over a purchase. This company is actively denying documented differences between this item and what an actual Enfield characteristics. These differences are well known among collectors, and the company should be eager to correct this mistake, instead of standing by a clearly flawed identification and ignoring very clear evidence.

   

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