ComplaintsforA.C. Propane

• Initial Complaint

  11/20/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  AC Propane filled our exterior Propane tank on Tuesday 11/14.After filling the additive of a gas leak was noticed. I called AC Propane to ask if they could assist. They offered to come back for a service call (Leak and Pressure check at $130). They came on Monday 11/20 and noted the bleed valve on our tank wasn't properly closed and would have been opened during the refilling process. They noted the bleed valve was usually hand tightened, but due to the age of the valves a wrench was required to securely close, and recommended valve replacement within 1-2years. No refund was offered or given for the service call to close the valve they left open.

  Business response

  12/04/2023

  To Whom It May ************** style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); margin: 0px; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;"> 

  We are indeed saddened by the customers complaint, but we appreciate and welcome the opportunity to address the customers concerns. Perhaps the customer may have a better understanding of the issue after examining our . This is in  response to the the customer complaint that a valve was left open and we charged the customer a service call to close the valve. We take great pride in serving our customers and providing the best service we can offer. We are a family owned business and I started the business with my parents in ****. If we indeed left the valve open, we would have been happy to remedy the situation at our cost. However, it is our response that the valve was closed in a professional manner according to industry standards and followed proper safety practices when we left the customers premises. Unfortunately, it is obvious that the tank began to leak after we left do to circumstances above and beyond our control. Had the tank not been 60 years old and properly maintained and updated valves been installed within the last few decades, the customer may not have experienced this issue.

   

  Customers that rely on propane have a choice of owning their own tank, or renting a leased tank from a propane dealer. When a customer leases a tank, it is the dealers responsibility to maintain and repair the tank as needed. With a leased tank, the customer is obligated to purchase their ******************** only from that particular dealer. Some customers opt to buy their own tanks at a substantial one time upfront cost and then enjoy the freedom of purchasing propane from the dealer of their choice. When a customer owns their own tank Bear all the responsibility of repairing and maintaining their tank at their own cost. 

   

  We advised the customer that the tank and valve is old, worn, and needs to be replaced. The tank needs to be completely empty to replace the valves. The tank was recently filled. Because the usage is part time and not a permanent residence, it may be one or several years until the tank is completely void of all propane. This is a customer owned and maintained tank. It is the customers responsibility to maintain and repair the tank as needed in accordance to common propane industry standards. We are not the only company that has filled this tank. And we have not serviced this tank since over 10 months ago. The valve has a knurled thumb s**** and is designed to be closed at finger tight. The valve is over 60 years old and over twice its life expectancy. The fact that it was leaking after we left the premises is not unusual given the poor maintenance of the 60 year old valve. There are several causes for leak and most customers will close the valve. That it why it should never be tightened beyond finger tight unless special circumstances require the use of tools. Below is a statement from the ************************* website which has jurisdiction over the propane industry in *****. 

  
  

  Customer response

  12/05/2023

   I am rejecting this response because: ** Propane opened the bleeder valve in the process of the refilling the propane tank and left it open, but refused to come back and close unless I paid for a leak/pressure check service.  ** Propane confirmed the bleeder valve was left open when they came back for leak/pressure check because it was only hand tightened closed.  ** Propane was able to fully close the valve using a wrench. I was never given a receipt/invoice until after I made a formal complain with BBB. ** Propane confirmed that there were no pressure or leak issues, and despite the age of the tank the sole reason for the leak that I called about was the bleeder valve remaining open from the refill. At no time prior to the pressure/leak service call was it mentioned that the bleeder valve could have been left open and simply closed using a wrench, or that the bleeder valves are closed by hand but could be tightened further by wrench, or that the bleeder valves would need replacement, or that the tank was 60yrs old and may need additional maintenance or replacement. The ** Propane Service Technician informed me at time of pressure/leak service that the bleeder valves would need replacement within the next 1-2years, but conversely the ** Propane Customer Support team member informed me after the leak/pressure service and after speaking with their technician that the bleeder valves would need replacement on the next Propane refill. At no time prior to my complaint with BBB was I told the age of the tank. I feel ** Propane could have easily sent their delivery driver back to confirm the valve was fully closed without requiring a leak/pressure check, but at no time was that offered, and instead I was left with the option of paying $129 for leak/pressure check to verify and ultimately close the valve that ** Propane left open. 
  
  
  

• Initial Complaint

  05/06/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We have been using them for over a year for propane, They are never on time. This late time I called on Wednesday to get my tank filled it was on 15 percent. I called Thursday to check status and and they told me there was a recall on my tank and they needed to pick it up and bring it back, They picked it up and then called me and said they aren’t bringing it back that they no longer wanted our business. Even though we already paid our rental fee for the year. They left us with a propane tank that you use on a BBQ. With a family of 4. This is the most unprofessional company I’ve ever seen. How could you leave a family with barley any propane ? This company should not be allowed to do business this is extremely dangerous.

  Business response

  05/24/2022

  We do not have a customer or an account by the name of ***** Miller. We do however have a company owned tank located at ***** ****** Road, *****, under the account name of ***** ********. We acquired this tank along with 511 other tanks from ******* Valley Propane Company on June 29, 1999. Shortly after the purchase of these tanks, in July 1999 we mailed a letter to all addresses of where the tanks were located informing the residents that their rented tanks were now owned by A.C. Propane Co. Everyone was informed to contact our company immediately to sign new service agreements immediately. 

   

  Our first contact with ***** ******** was on about September 16, 2020 to order propane. He informed us that he had just moved into the house and was unaware of any propane tank rental agreement. We provided him with his requested propane and proof that the tank was a rented tank from ******* Valley Propane. We also left ***** ******** with a new lease contract and service term agreement to sign and return to us. He said he wanted to read the agreement and would mail it to us. Since September 16, 2020 we delivered propane to ***** ******** on February 3, 2021; June 16, 2021; December 15, 2021; and lastly on February 23, 2022. Each time we requested that he please sign our agreement of service. ***** ******** has refused to sign our rental contract and service terms agreement for the past 19 months. Our liability insurance carrier audits us annually and requires us to have all of our customers sign a terms of service agreement. 

   

  On May 4 ***** ****** stated that she was empty once again and needed a delivery of propane immediately. Our liability insurance company requires that we perform a mandatory pressure leak test on all out of gas customers. We charge the customer for this service as stated in our service term agreement. All customer are also required to give us at least seven days notice or at their tank reading 0f 20% and 30% to avoid running out of propane and paying for the service of the mandatory leak check. The mandatory leak check is an industry safety standard recommended by the National Propane Gas Association and the Western Propane Gas Association to insure the customer’s own safety. We were told by ***** ****** that she was not going to pay the service fee and just bring us the (expletive) gas NOW. The annual tank rent was due this month. Knowing that this is going to be a very volatile and possible hostile situation, I explained that we wouldn’t charge for the leak test but we did need to check and perform a safety check on our propane tank. I further explained that we may need to replace a valve on the tank or just replace the tank with another tank. Just 2 days later we arrived at the ********’s residence and informed the residents that we were taking our tank to our shop for repairs and left a 7 gal gallon tank for them to use. 

   

  As soon as the two service techs left the property I informed the resident that we would not be returning with our tank and that we were terminating service. This was due to their refusal to follow industry standard safety practices, sign a rental agreement, and agree to our standard service agreement. I explained that we left the residence with approximately 7 to 10 days of propane supply and suggested that should utilize the rest of the day in arranging for service from a different propane company that can meet their needs.

  I further explained that they can come to our office and sign the necessary paper work and agree to our terms service and safety agreement. Upon the signing of the required paperwork, we would return a new tank immediately, perform a leak test at no charge, and re-light any needed pilot lights. I was told to go (expletive). 

   

  I feel that we went beyond and above to accommodate this resident. Their refusal to sign a standard agreement for the past 19 months forced us to take extraordinary measures to end our business relationship. 

   

  A.C. PROPANE COMPANY

   

  Customer response

  05/24/2022

   I am rejecting this response because: The business owner lied multiple times on his response, I have never cussed at anyone who works there. He can continue to lie and make up whatever he wants it just goes to show his character. I have learned my lesson and will definitely check google and yelp reviews before using  a shady corrupt company like his.  We are with another propane company now who had to fix all our gas leaks due to his negligence. 
  
  

• Initial Complaint

  12/07/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I received an invoice for payment for a (yearly) gas propane tank rental on 10-07-2021 in the amount of $48.49 from A.C. propane tank company out of ********, Ca ***** ###-###-####. I got around to calling the company around mid November and made a telephonic payment over the phone using my debit card for only the amount of $48.49. The person who I spoke with who processed my payment was named "*****." On December 1st, I received an email stating that a payment was processed through A.C. propane company for the incorrect amount of $177.41. I received an additional email stating that my debit card information was saved without my consent or authorization to an app or company called "Square" for future payments that I did not authorized. I called the company shortly after to inquire about the incorrect charge and the unauthorized saving of my personal bank card information for future use. The company called me back on December 6th and told me that they assumed that I needed a refill outside of the yearly tank rental (without me asking for a refill) and that they would refund my the difference. I also noticed that they replaced the tank at that time. Today on December 7th, the company called me back to say that they could not remove gas from the tank to set it at the amount it was previously at and that they did not have any tanks with lesser amount of gas and still wanted me to pay the $177 because there was nothing they could do and sent a representative out to remove the propane tank to leave my 64 year old mother without gas at all. Me not asking for a refill and not wanting to make a payment for something I did not need, left my mother without a gas tank today and when asked about a refund, I get the run around from the company. I would like a full refund and to report this business for acting not on my behalf and trying to over charge me for something I did not ask for and then getting upset and removing the service without giving me a refund.

  Business response

  12/21/2021

  “I received an invoice for payment for a (yearly) gas propane tank rental on 10-07-2021 in the amount of $48.49 from A.C. propane tank company out of ********, Ca ***** ###-###-####. I got around to calling the company around mid November and made a telephonic payment over the phone using my debit card for only the amount of $48.49. The person who I spoke with who processed my payment was named "*****." On December 1st, I received an email stating that a payment was processed through A.C. propane company for the incorrect amount of $177.41. I received an additional email stating that my debit card information was saved without my consent or authorization to an app or company called "Square" for future payments that I did not authorized. I called the company shortly after to inquire about the incorrect charge and the unauthorized saving of my personal bank card information for future use. The company called me back on December 6th and told me that they assumed that I needed a refill outside of the yearly tank rental (without me asking for a refill) and that they would refund my the difference. I also noticed that they replaced the tank at that time. Today on December 7th, the company called me back to say that they could not remove gas from the tank to set it at the amount it was previously at and that they did not have any tanks with lesser amount of gas and still wanted me to pay the $177 because there was nothing they could do and sent a representative out to remove the propane tank to leave my 64 year old mother without gas at all. Me not asking for a refill and not wanting to make a payment for something I did not need, left my mother without a gas tank today and when asked about a refund, I get the run around from the company. I would like a full refund and to report this business for acting not on my behalf and trying to over charge me for something I did not ask for and then getting upset and removing the service without giving me a refund.”

   

   

   

  “I received an invoice for payment for a (yearly) gas propane tank rental on 10-07-2021 in the amount of $48.49 from A.C. propane tank company out of ********, Ca ***** ###-###-####. I got around to calling the company around mid November and made a telephonic payment over the phone using my debit card for only the amount of $48.49.”

   

  A.C. PROPANE: Ms. ******* contacted us in mid November a day after we made our 30 day late collection calls. Ms. ******* was reminded that she has failed to sign our tank rental agreement that we had sent to her, and did not have our written permission to use our tank. The mobile home that her mother was living in was a rental unit. Our rental tank was there from the previous tenant. We were never informed that our customer had moved out and Ms. *******’s mother had assumed use of the tank. We happily explained that because of Covid 19 restrictions that we were now providing contactless propane delivery services to protect our customers and employees. She was asked if she would like to provide a credit card to be on file for future propane services. Without a card on file we could not provide services in a safe manner and thus discontinue our verbal rental agreement and pickup our tank and equipment. Ms. ******* supplied the credit card information as requested.  Ms. ******* further stated that the tank was changed out at some time and questioned whether we owned the tank that was at her mother’s rental unit.

   

  Upon listening to Ms. *******’s allegation that the tank was switched out and that we may not own the rental tank, we sent a technician to confirm the serial number. The serial number was confirmed as the same number that was on our contract with the previous renter of the mobile home. At the same time that we confirmed the serial number, Ms. *******’s mother who at the time was residing at the mobile home requested that the tank be filled. The tank was filled as per her mother’s request.

   

  We had not charged Ms. ******* for the tank rental fee until we confirmed that it was indeed our tank. After all, we don’t want to charge a rental fee for a tank that we do not own. After the serial was confirmed, we did in fact charge Ms. ******* for the agreed tank rent and the propane her mother requested. 

   

   

   

   

  “The person who I spoke with who processed my payment was named "*****." On December 1st, I received an email stating that a payment was processed through A.C. propane company for the incorrect amount of $177.41. I received an additional email stating that my debit card information was saved without my consent or authorization to an app or company called "Square" for future payments that I did not authorized. I called the company shortly after to inquire about the incorrect charge and the unauthorized saving of my personal bank card information for future use. The company called me back on December 6th and told me that they assumed that I needed a refill outside of the yearly tank rental (without me asking for a refill) and that they would refund my the difference.”

   

  A.C. PROPANE:  Yes, we did charge the card for the propane tank rental and the propane that her mother requested. Ms. ******* did contact our office regarding the charges. After investigating the charges we informed Ms. ******* that her mother had requested propane and explained the amounts. Ms. ******* stated that her mother was not authorized to request propane and that she shouldn’t have to pay for the gas since it was our mistake of filling it. We told her that we don’t give out free gas and we expected to be paid for our services. She further stated that she has bought propane from cheaper sources and does not want to buy propane from us. We explained that it is against California for others to fill our tanks. We explained that we only rent tanks to customers that buy our propane. Ms. ******* again stated that we should remove the propane because from the tank because she shouldn’t have to pay for it, it was our mistake.  We explained that we put 40.4 gallons into the tank that only holds 43 gallons. Without us filling the tank her mother would have shortly ran out of propane and would not be able to heat her home, nor cook, nor have hot water. Ms. ******* explained that her mother nor longer resides at the mobile home and does not need the tank any longer. And that she didn’t use any of the propane that we recently put into her tank. 

   

  We agreed to refund the charges to Ms. ******* after we picked up the tank and checked the tank level to confirm that there was no gas used. 

   

  Within a few days our technician was dispatched to pick up the tank. Upon arrival as the technician was disconnecting the tank Ms. *******’s mother came out of the mobile home and demanded that we do not remove the tank and our other equipment. At that point, the tank was disconnected and prepared to be removed by crane. Ms. ******* contacted our office and demanded that we leave the tank at her home. We agreed, but she refused to pay for the propane and still demanded a refund. After some long heated conversations she requested that we connect her mother’s spare tank that was stored in a shed to the mobile home. After connecting the spare tank my technician check the appliances in the home. He loaded the tank and left. It was noted that the tank level was at approximately 70%, meaning that about 7 gal was used from the tank. 

   

   

   

   

   

  “I also noticed that they replaced the tank at that time. Today on December 7th, the company called me back to say that they could not remove gas from the tank to set it at the amount it was previously at and that they did not have any tanks with lesser amount of gas and still wanted me to pay the $177 because there was nothing they could do”

   

  A.C. PROPANE: Ms. *******’s mother requested the delivery. There is no simple way of removing propane from a tank. We do not rent any smaller tanks than 50 gallon tanks. Ms. ******* did not want to pay for the propane and stated that she was not going to pay for it. We agreed to refunding the amount if she was not using the propane her mother requested. 

   

   

   

   

  “and sent a representative out to remove the propane tank to leave my 64 year old mother without gas at all. Me not asking for a refill and not wanting to make a payment for something I did not need, left my mother without a gas tank today and when asked about a refund, I get the run around from the company. I would like a full refund and to report this business for acting not on my behalf and trying to over charge me for something I did not ask for and then getting upset and removing the service without giving me a refund.”

   

  A.C. PROPANE: We sent a representative out to remove the propane tank after Ms. ******* stated that she was not using the tank and nobody was living at the home. We do charge for service calls of connecting customer’s tanks and checking appliances. We will be happy to provide a partial refund to the customer. However, as we told her, we do not keep her credit number on file and have no means of issuing her a refund to her card without her consent. 

   

   

   

  Sincerely,

   

  ***** ********, manager

  A.C. PROPANE CO. 

  
  

  Customer response

  12/22/2021

   I am rejecting this response because:
  
  Ultimately  I would like a refund of services that I have not used. According to the company approximately 7 gallons were used which can be taken out of the $177 I was charged but the rental fee along with the remainder gas amount/fee should be refunded to me. Clearly this company does not have the best customer service and are inconsistent in their statements and practices. In their own response they state that a tank rental agreement was not signed and that the previous tenant was no longer living there. Well my mother has resided at that residence for the past few years and every time I was previously charged, the previous owner or tank was not an issue. Before I could even sign and return the agreement, I was charged the incorrect amount which I clearly did not authorize. How do you get from calling in to pay a $48.49 invoice to $177 without the permission of the card holder. I would like AC propane to show when and how my mother contacted them for a propane refill when she has never contacted and doesn't know how to contact the company. I called in and provided my credit card information for a one time use and was never told that I would be charged anything other than $48.49 which was sent to me as an invoice. If their business practices are legitimate they should be able to find any recordings of my mother authorizing the install as they've stated and should have a recording of me agreeing to pay the amount I was incorrectly charged for but they won't because it did not happen. I would just like them to correct their mistake and move on.

  
  

  I also previously provided a copy of a document I received from "squareup.com" which states that "Your Mastercard was saved on file and authorized to be used for future transactions at A.C. propane." So clearly my information was saved and without my authorization. I find it ridiculous that A.C propane is wanting my credit card information again after already overcharging me 4 times the amount in order for me to receive a refund. I'm sure they can write me a check for the total amount of $177 minus the 7 gallons of gas they say I previously used and this matter will be resolved as far as I'm concerned. Please review the documents I've previously sent and BBB, you are free to call me if you have any questions. 

  
  

  Thank you,

  
  **** ******

  
  

  
  

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩