ComplaintsforLW Flooring

• Initial Complaint

  02/09/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased Paradise Island "Fiji" European White Oak Engineered Wood Floors from LW Flooring from a local distributor based on a sample board that LW provided them (See Image1.) Approximately 20% of the wood received did not match the same grade as the sample board the decision to purchase was based on. (See Image2 & Image3.) After sorting thru the wood planks as it was being installed and removing the ones that were not the quality we purchased, we had to purchase an additional 17 boxes of wood to finish the job which cost us an additional $5,652. The boxes were clearly marked as follows: "Installer: Please get homeowners approval before installation", Followed by "Once installed, material is considered accepted” and further explained "Prior to installation, please get the homeowner to check and approve the material. Once installed, the material is considered accepted and cannot be returned for appearance reasons." Upon finishing the job, LW refused to accept the open boxes of wood despite the clearly documented bait and switch of the wood quality/grading and further insulted us by giving us $1000 to compensate us for the additional $5,652 we had to spend to get a quality close to what we thought we had purchased. Their website (See LW Website.pdf) also clearly states that this floor has “low” variation, and the grading is nowhere to be found, either on the website, the boxes of wood or on the sample boards. After researching this further, it was understood according to the grading system defined by the ******** **** ******** *********** (see ********), the sample board is very close to a “Select” and 20% of the boards were very clearly a “No. 2 Common”.

  Business response

  02/20/2023

  Good morning, ********. 

   

  This is in response to the complaint received on ID # ********. I have attached the following:

  ·  Email to the dealer that bought the flooring from us, All ****** ** ****** * ******* *****

  ·  Our Installation guide 

  ·  Our general warranty information

  We corresponded with our customer, ****** ** ******, regarding the concerns about LW Flooring, Engineered, Fiji, European White Oak, Wirebrushed, Paradise Island, 5/8" by 10-1/4". All ****** ** ****** reported that the sample did not match the flooring end-user is not satisfied with the installed material. This material is ABCD grade, meaning the "Natural Grade" is among the most common. It is a combination of clean-looking boards and some natural grades.  LW website photos clearly show that it's a natural grade. Please see the link: *************************************  Regarding the ***** information included, he's using Red Oak which is much different from White Oak in many ways, not to mention that the Red Oak is not even made in wide boards.

   

  The grade of wood flooring is essentially the measurement of a wood’s character. While there is no universal grading system, and you’re likely to come across different terminology for each grade, there is a general industry consensus on what each grade entails. (The ******** **** ******** *********** (****) does have an established grading system, but it is limited to certain domestic species. To see photos of the different **** grades, click--* *************************************

  
  The four grades assigned to wood are:
  1. Prime (also called Clear or AB)
  2. Select (also called ABC)
  3. Natural (also called Character, Aged Character, #1 Common, or ABCD), and
  4. Rustic (also called Barn, #2 Common, or CD).
  
  Each grade is determined by a wood’s character, which is influenced by sap content, color variance, and the number of knots. Prime-grade wood has minimal sap with uniform color and very few knots. Rustic grade has the most sap with a large range of colors and many knots. The LW Fiji is an ABCD / Natural grade. 

   

  LW also would like to add that it is the responsibility of the installer/owner to determine material meets their expectations. LW Flooring warranties DO NOT cover materials installed with visible variations from plank to plank or variations from sample to plank. Requests for replacement, refund, or compensation made AFTER installation will NOT be honored; however, if you have uninstalled and unopen material, we can take the material back. Since the customer decided to cull boards at their discretion LW as a sign of good faith, has provided a $1000 credit to strengthen the relationship with our dealer. This was not because of any fault of LW, and we clarified that with the dealer. 

  
  Disclaimer in every box : 

  Customer response

  02/21/2023

  [To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

   Complaint: ********

  I am rejecting this response because:  Nothing they provided is a reason why they should not return/refund the wood.

  1. They are agreeing now that thier wood is ABCD grade which is not what the sample board shows nor is the grade mentioned in any of thier marketing materials, boxes, website, etc.  So all we had to rely on was the sample board.

  2. This is the first time I am seeing thier installation guide. They can't provide documentation after the fact and expect that I abide by that.

  3. Regarding expectations, my expectation was to receive wood the same quality as the sample board. Once I started to see planks appear in the boxes that were not the same quality we had to set them aside and order more to finish the job.  What was the alternative?  To rip out what we put in and start shopping for more wood?  We had no option.

  4. According to thier own documenation provided all over the boxes as I provided, the only time they will not accept returns is if they have been installed.

  5. I am not sure why LW brought ****** ****** into the conversation.  LW provided the sample board to ******. ****** cannot control what LW puts in the boxes to be delviered to me. In my opinion they did nothing wrong.

  I expect a refund. this is bad business. 

  Regards,

  ***** ******

  Business response

  02/27/2023

  Good morning, ********. 

   

  The following is LW's response to the rebuttal and rejection received on 2/21/2023 from ID # ********. 

   

  First, we would like to confirm that we informed ****** ** ****** that the LW Flooring, Engineered, Fiji, European White Oak, Wirebrushed, Paradise Island, 5/8" by 10-1/4". This material is ABCD grade, meaning the "Natural Grade" is among the most common. It is a combination of clean-looking boards and some natural grades. LW website photos clearly show that it's a natural grade. Please see the link: ************************************* Regarding the ***** information included, he's using Red Oak which is much different from White Oak in many ways, not to mention that the Red Oak is not even made in wide boards. They informed us after the material had been installed. As we said before, requests for returns, replacement, refund, or compensation made after installation will NOT be honored; unfortunately, we do not take back open boxes. 

   

  You can find our policy in our installation guide and every box. Please see the picture of our carton and the written disclaimer. 

  ********** ** ***** *** *   

  In response to their list of concerns, You can find LW FLoorings' official response in red: 

  1.    They are agreeing now that thier wood is ABCD grade which is not what the sample board shows nor is the grade mentioned in any of their marketing materials, boxes, website, etc. So all we had to rely on was the sample board. LW has always stated that Paradise Island is a Natural wood product, and by definition, natural means ABCD Grade. Our literature, website, and website photos clearly show the Natural wood look of Fiji.

  2.     This is the first time I am seeing thier installation guide. They can't provide documentation after the fact and expect that I abide by that. Our installation instructions are included in one of six cartons and are available on our website.

  3.    Regarding expectations, my expectation was to receive wood the same quality as the sample board. Once I started to see planks appear in the boxes that were not the same quality we had to set them aside and order more to finish the job. What was the alternative? To ripout what we put in and start shopping for more wood? We had no option. On all our samples, there is a disclaimer to inform about variations on wood flooring. Here is the disclaimer: "Natural wood contains inherent variations in color, markings, knots, and grain. No two pieces are exactly alike. Natural wood samples are designed and intended to be representative of species and colors. Plank variations ensure a uniquely beautiful finished floor." I have attached our sample back label. Before installing any material, it is the responsibility of the installer/owner to determine material meets their expectations. We would have taken the material back if they did not install it. The product does vary from piece to piece, and that's the beauty of real wood. No pieces are ever the same, and that's why your sample may be different, but it is Natural Grade.  

  4.    According to their own documentation provided all over the boxes as I provided, they will only not accept returns if they have been installed. You have the choice not to install the planks that you don't desire (cull planks), but that is at your discretion and cost. The product provided is Natural grade, and that's what it was sold as.

  5.    I am not sure why LW brought ****** ****** into the conversation. LW provided the sample board to ******. ****** can not control what LW puts in the boxes to be delivered to me. In my opinion, they did nothing wrong. I expect a refund. This is bad business. LW only sells through the retail chain, and ****** ** ****** is the retailer to who the product was sold. LW Flooring's policy is to communicate and deal directly with our customers.

  Regards,

  ******** **** *********** ***********

  Customer response

  02/27/2023

  [To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

   Complaint: ********

  I am rejecting this response because:   They are very good at trying to confuse the subject.  They intentionally do not use the word "grade" anywhere in the marketing materials.  However what they do state very clearly on the website is that the variation is "low" (see attached). This also contradicts their claim the grade is clear defined as anything but what the sample board showed us.  Even the photos on the website are just poor enough so you really can't see any detail that they are referring to show clearly.

  There was no disclaimer on the back of the board.
  

  They also stated the document I previously provided by the ******** **** ******** *********** was not valid since it only referred to red oak (I have attached it again).  If they looked at it more clearly they would see that is assigns proper grading to both Red and White Oak.  Since they are in the industry, they should understand how the industry's largest (possibly the only) association assign grades to wood.  "Natural" is not one of them.  Again, thier sample board was clearly close to a "Select" and at least 20% of the planks delivered were a "No. 2 Common" at best.  This is just not fair or good business by any stretch of the imagination.
  
  They stated again that they would take back the flooring if it was not installed.  I am happy to give it back since it has not been installed.
  

  Regards,

  ***** ******

• Initial Complaint

  07/21/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  WE purchased from an installer in Tampa to install LW Flooring's engineered, coffee, birch, handscraped, traditions, 3/8" by 5" flooring. Over the last year, we have experienced a lot of scuffs, scratches and drip marks. WE only use Bona items. I tried to YouTube and work on getting off myself. Nothing works. WE had an inspector come out, take photos and then report. LW takes no responsibility for these defects. I've asked for suggestions, solutions and ways to get these defects our. The just walked away. I've looked up reviews and they are all horrible. All I want is for the floors to be right, I just want some instructions and suggestions to make the floors right. I'm at the point to get an attorney and go after them that way. Any help from the BBB would be very helpful. Thank you EJ Foody

  Business response

  07/28/2022

  Good morning,
  
  This is in response to the complaint received on ID # 17599365. I have attached the following:
  • Letter to the dealer that bought the flooring from us, Exclusive Flooring Center LLC * Ticket# 10544
  • The inspection report from The Floor Detective, FCITS 979, MWFA CP234010
  • Inspection pictures
  • Our general warranty information
  The report provided by LW Flooring shows this is site and customer care related. An independent NWFA-certified inspector conducted the report. He determined scratches, scuffs, and drips occurred in the polish applied to the floor after its installation. This is not a manufacturing-related concern in the wood itself and is expressly not covered under LW Flooring General Warranty. The inspector concluded no manufacturing issues.  
  
  We corresponded with our customer, Exclusive Flooring Center LLC., and sent them the following suggestions. 
  
  "LW Flooring Coffee has Polyurethane with an Aluminum Oxide finish. The end user can use Denatured Alcohol or mineral spirits to clean up dried residue without damage. I suggest using a little bit with a white terry cloth and doing a test area first. Denatured Alcohol will not damage the finish or void the warranty. 
  
  For scratches, they can use the Loba Dustless Recoat System to revitalize a floor for everyday wear and light scratches. This process does not require sanding. Some contractors/ installers use the Tibet almond stick, which hides scratches. It's something we recommend to hide or conceal the scratches. However, it does not remove them.
  Unfortunately, full board replacement is the only method for repairing factory-stained floors damaged by deep scratches or gouges that expose the natural wood color."
   
  Please let me know if you need anything else or have any questions.
  

  
  

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩