ComplaintsforPERMA Mental Health

• Initial Complaint

  06/20/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I hadn't been a client of Perma mental health for a very long time, in fact I had only visited the business one time in a span of two years. More than 8 months after my previous appointment I received a bill for services which I had already paid for. When I reached out for explanation of the bill, I was told that it must have been for a back-dated co-pay which was an admitted error on the part of the business. I paid every co-pay and I was always insured. I explained this and was told that they want the bill paid. My complaint is that the bill was very late, inaccurate, and poorly handled by the business administration.

  Business response

  06/21/2024

  Re: *********************
  Medical record # *******

  
  Dear ********************, 
  On Jun 20, 2024 at 3:11pm, Mr. ******** called our office hysterical regarding his balance from 2022 and 2023 dates of service.  We are requesting this matter be closed in favor of our business as his complaint of unprofessionalism, unethical or immoral business practices are opinion and not fact or law.  Insurance has up to 5 years to recoup and reprocess claims and we use that as a benchmark for our patient responsible insurance amount collections practices.  We are compliant with the Idaho Patient Act in this matter and find fault with the patient's behavior regarding policy and processes. 
  While we agree that billing patients for services in years past, it is within the law and our rights to bill patients for patient responsible deductibles, copayments, and coinsurance that we are legally bound to bill to patients by insurance.  Mr. ******** refused to take responsibility for collaborating with his insurance, who legally MUST send him an EOB, to validate his patient statements.  We simply convert patient responsible amounts sent to patients by their insurance in the form of a statement.  
  Mr. ******** was told repeatedly that we cannot control the **** delivery of his statements, we cannot control or change what his insurance has deemed his patient responsible amounts, and we further told the patient we were NOT pursuing extraordinary collections or sending any patients to collections as that is not a current business practice we employ for any dates of service prior to June 2024.  We further told the patient he could pay at his convenience and offered payment plans.  We told the patient, who refused to pay, our write-off adjustment policy should he not want to pay (would have eventually been written off).  
  We have discharged Mr. ******** for cause due to his threats and behavior and he is no longer welcome to our practice.  He threatened our staff and our company with false accusations refusing to follow our write-off policy (had he not paid - would have been written off after 3 statement cycles and 3 calls; whichever is last to be completed).  He demanded that he be given preferential treatment and wanted an answer today regarding write off or payment, but threatened us that if we advised we wanted payment he would intentionally and maliciously cause us and our staff to regret not writing off his balances. 
  We refuse to comply with patients who are emotional, immature, and illogical who demand we treat them any differently than other patients.  This patient had a choice to not pay, with no financial, legal, or credit repercussions and instead chose to manipulate and control the narrative with gaslighting behavior and threats further wasting our time and the BBB. 

  
  Thank you.
  *********************************
  Billing Manager
  

  
  

  Customer response

  06/21/2024

   
  Complaint: 21879581
  
  I am rejecting this response because of a mis-statement of facts on the part of the business as well as a drastic mis-characterization of the conversation I had with a billing professional. 
  

  First, I would reply to comments about my "threatening" behavior and "gaslighting". This is all simply false. I never raised my voice, cursed, threatened, insulted, or otherwise acted unprofessionally during this billing dispute. I would invite Perma to provide any recording of the conversation. What I did state was that:

  1.) I was happy to pay anything that I owed. While I disagree that I owed anything, I did in fact pay the bill on 6/20/2024. The conversation about discharging of debts over a period of time simply never happened, why would it? I paid and the whole conversation was no more than a few minutes. The mention of billing cycles never happened, if the matter would be resolved after 3 billing cycles, why am I getting this bill now, more than 10 months after my last visit to the office (10/31/2023 at which time I paid my co-pay and my insurer paid the agreed upon amount to Perma, a preferred provider).

  2.) I stated that I only visited the office only once in 2022 and once in 2023, at which appointment I made both co-payments (10/24/2022 in cash and 10/31/2023 with credit card). When I asked when I missed any co-payments, if indeed I did, the person I spoke with said "well they must have been missed some time earlier then". In short, what Perma has claimed, that these were for services unpaid in 2022-23, is false. If anything, this is a problem on their end that certainly goes back to 2021 or 2020. I invite Perma to release all the billing information for the past years rather than simply making ad hominem attacks on me. This is a business matter...show the business records.

  3.) I implored the billing professional I spoke with to be reasonable and I said, "this is so little money from so long ago, pursuing this will certainly cost the practice more in time and reputation loss than 10-times this bill". I didn't ask the bill to be waived (again...I paid it). I was not making a threat, but a statement of fact that this matter was insignificant and simply not worth pursuing. It was an appeal to reason, which was rejected. I explained subsequently that I would pay and that I would pursue efforts to reconcile the grievance, which I am doing. They were wrong to bill me, I paid all co-pays, and Perma provided me no date in which services were rendered and payment was not made. 

  Lastly, the billing professional told me that I was discharged from the practice. ******, similarly said I was discharged from the medical practice. While this is not a matter for the Better Business Bureau, I would point out that to discharge a patient from a medical practice is a medical decision which is the purview of the health care provider. By law, it must be done in writing, with notice and cause. It must never be done by office staff, surely not over a small billing matter. As I said, this is a medical responsibility not a clerical one (thus it's a matter for the State *********************** to review rather than the Better Business Bureau). I don't see that as necessary, but if Perma staff wants to make accusatory statements about my demeanor, accuse me of threats, or otherwise attack me personally, I will be willing to subject the matter to an administrative investigation by the appropriate body.   

  This billing matter is so small, it's so easy to resolve. Perma simply has to say, "sorry for billing you more than 2-years late for co-pays you already paid". I am perfectly happy for the staff to keep the payment I made and credit it toward an office lunch or Happy Hour. And though I will not be a patient in the future, I would love to see this practice managed more appropriately for the sake of the business, providers, and patients. 

  Sincerely,
  
  *********************

  Upon request, I can provide evidence of the bill and payments which I have made, but I only have that evidence for 2 years. For billing dating back further, it is the responsibility of Perma to provide. 

• Initial Complaint

  05/18/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Unanswered

  More info

  On 5/16/23 I called for a medication refill. I did not receive a refill so I called on 5/17/23 and was told Im no longer a Patient and to find another provider, When I asked to talk to the Office Manager I was told she would figure it out and I missed 3 appointments. I told her if you had notified me by mail which is the law or verbally I would have made sure to make it to my appointment. They are treating me for a disorder that included memory loss. I asked for enough medication for at least 30 days until I find a new doctor and they refused. I also asked can I please see my provider and explain my situation she said no. Also the Office Manager said she would call me back , But did not. You cannot discharge people without a written letter and no medication refill. This is WRONG. Also I should mention when I called on Tuesday there was no mention of being discharged she was pleasant and said she would turn the request into my provider

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