ComplaintsforS and J Plumbing

• Initial Complaint

  05/12/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  S and J Plumbing repaired 2 leaking pipes (laundry room and crawlspace). I later found out that the laundry room work was purposely not included in the work order details which was concerning. Later that day the laundry pipe continued to leak so they sent the same tech the next day. I was now being told that it will cost more but the type of repair that the technician proposed was the same repair he proposed the previous day. I refused.The following day the pipe in the crawlspace also leaked and damaged our sump pump which was now soaked with water and beeping indicating a failure. A second technician from S and J came back to fix the leak and saw the damage to my sump pump.I emailed S and J to cancel the agreement and asked for a full refund. Both the pipes that was initially fixed leaked so I had very little confidence on the quality of their workmanship. I was contacted by the owner (*********************). He accepted liability for the damage to our sump pump and agreed for me to get a quote for the repair from the original installers of our sump pump. *** rejected the quote ($3707) to replace my sump pump with the same exact model. He instead offered to send me parts ($301) that he thinks I need so I can fix the sump pump myself. *** also rejected to refund the laundry room work which I paid for them to fix but continued to leak. He said that this work was not on the work order even though his technician worked on it.I replied asking for half ($401.25) of what I paid them since they only fixed one of the two leaking pipes. I also asked for half ($1853.50) the cost for my sump pump to be replaced. *** responded telling me that all he is doing is to give me $301 to buy the sump parts so I can fix it myself. He also offered $100 for inconveniencing me. I replied to *** to let him know that I did not agree to these terms and that our transaction is still open. Im seeking for half refund of the work performed and half of the cost of a new sump pump for a total of $2254.

  

  Business response

  06/03/2024

  Thank you, ************, for your feedback as it is important to us to understand the situation better and improve our process where necessary.
  After speaking with ************ and the technicians that were at his home this is my understanding of what took place between ************ and our technicians. I share the writeups of each tech because they were presented to ************ at the end of each job for his approval and signature.
  Our technician was dispatched to your home on 4-25-24. My understanding is that ************ and the technician discussed a leak on copper piping above the water heater in the crawlspace and a leak on copper piping in the ceiling of the laundry room. Our records indicate that three options/estimates were given to ************. Option 1, that includes two tasks: 1st task, replace water heater due to age which would also include fixing the copper pipping above the water heater that was leaking.2nd task fixing the leak on the copper piping in the ceiling of the laundry room. Option 2, one task: replace water heater due to age which would also include fixing the copper pipping above the water heater that was leaking.Option 3, fixing the copper pipping above the water heater only. According to our records ************ agreed and signed off on option #3 at 10:27am. Our technician was at home for approximately 2 hours. After the repair to the copper piping above the water heater was completed, the technician showed the work that was completed to ************ who then signed off at 11:58am for satisfactory completion. Here is the technicians writeup for the visit: Arrived to greet *******. He called us out for an issue with a small drip leak on his hot water line coming out of water heater. Unit is a 38 gal lowboy electric water heater about 10 years old. **** was rusting top of water heater and seemed to be going on for a while. ******* opted not to have us replace water heater and just wanted the leak fixed. I ad used him of dangers of water heater leaking and going out. Informed him on how to shut it off in case this does happen. I will email him estimate so he can have due to age of water heater and not much life left.
  Repaired leak and tested.
  No warranty on existing plumbing.
  ************ called in to the office 2:11pm on the same day of service, 4-25-24. He indicated that there was a drip coming from the laundry room pipe that was fixed. A follow up visit was scheduled for 4-26-24.
  The original technician arrived back to the home on 4-26-24 where a discussion was had. Here is the write-up from the technician for that visit.  Arrived to greet *******. He called us out stating that the pipe in the laundry room had a very slow drip.He thought that the work would be covered under the pipe repair I performed in crawl space on water heater. I advised him that when we spoke yesterday I would only pipe the water heater leaks and if I had to cut out that fitting and pipe the 1 line in the laundry room I would have to charge and could not do that for free. He opted to go with the lowest option and only repair water heater hot and cold line leaks. He stated he thought that was included in the original quote yesterday even though I was very clear on what work I was going to perform.
  He does not want to pay for more work to be performed and wants work under warranty
  
  On 4-27-24 ************ called in to state that the copper piping that was repaired above the water heater in the crawl space was now leaking. We sent a different tech to his home on 4-27-24 who repaired the leak.Here is that techs writeup: Arrive to the home and spoke with *******. He showed me that recent work in the crawlspace is leaking. Had the homeowner shut off water to the home. Drained down the system from the water heater. Found that upstream side of the water heater ball valve had a leak at the solder joint. I was able to clean up this joint and re-solder it. Visually checked for proper seal. Reconnected piping to the water heater and have the homeowner turn the water back on slowly. Purged air from the system and filled. Everything tested fine, no leaks.  ******** also states that previously we had worked on a 1 inch T in the laundry room ceiling. Found that there is a incredibly slow drip on the attempted repair. Customer states that we quoted to do this work and yet didnt complete it to their satisfaction. I advised that the office will talk to all parties involved and reconnect with the homeowner on this issue.  For today, everything operating properly and leak free.Courtesy stop. AC
  
  After these service calls ************ and I exchanged phone calls and emails. ************ stated that his backup sump pump was damaged from the leak that was in the crawlspace due to water hitting the system. When I spoke to the last tech that was at the job he stated that he did not see water getting onto the backup sump pump. The tech did say the water was leaking onto the ground where the sump pump system sat. ************ stated that he had the company who originally installed the backup system and they quoted him $3707 to replace the entire unit. ************ forwarded me the quote which includes a battery, two sump pumps, a charger, and a controller. After reviewing the quote I spoke with ************ whom said he had not gotten the work done yet as he wanted to see if would be paying for it.  I expressed my disagreement that the entire system needed to be replaced. I had also called the pump manufacturer JMI Pumps to enquire if the charger and controller parts could be replaced and where available for purchase without the whole system and they assured me that it could and that the parts were in stock. Here are the part number and their costs that were emailed to me from JMI Charger;AZP-ALP-CHARGER $91.00 and Controller; AZP-ALP-CONTOL $210.00. I also expressed to ************ that from the pictures that the other company took when recommending the replacement of the sump pump system was the first that I saw of the system. From the pictures which are attached it is clearly evident that the system took on sewage water at a prior time before we were there. The battery box where the controller and charger sit was stained with sewage. Also in the picture there is a sewer pipe above it that has been plugged with the wrong type of plug. Also the system looks to be in poor shape and is on the opposite side of the water heater. ************ expressed that he was not a sump pump expert and he just wanted his sump pump system to work like before. As a courtesy I gave him the option of purchasing the damaged parts and replacing them for him which he declined because he said he no loner trusted our workmanship. I then offered to purchase the parts and give them to him so he can have someone else replace the parts or refund him the cost of the parts plus $100 for the inconvenience. ************ declined both options. Here is the text from my email to him:
  *******,
  Again I want to apologize for the leak we had at the water heater, that is on us.  I don't however understand the justification behind requesting a full refund for the work performed. I had spoken with *** about your appointment. He assured me that he did not agree to fix the leak in the laundry room as part of the work at the water heater. I can confirm that with the estimates he had presented to you in our software program. We can argue there was miscommunication but that does not warrant a full refund. Yes we had a leak on the work performed which has a 90 day parts and labor warranty which we honored by coming back to fix the leak. The warranty does not say that then we also refund all your money. I am a reasonable man but when I step back and look at this scenario I can't help feeling as though we are trying to be taken advantage of. To request that we pay $3,700 for parts that cost $301 and are on a system that visibly has incurred water or sewer damage in the past and issue a full refund of $803 is unfair. 
  At this point I am only comfortable moving forward with a refund of $401. $301 and $100 to you for the inconvenience. 
  
  Here is Mr. ***** response:
  ***,
  My counter offer is to split the cost of $803 as the work on the laundry room was not completed and also to split the cost of $3707 for a replacement sump pump. This is for a total of $2255. 
  
  I believe that this is fair as im only paying for half the work performed properly and you are only paying for a damage sump pump that is halfway through its life cycle.
  Here is my response:
  *******,
  With all due respect this is not a negotiation. I looked over your concern, gathered all the information and concluded that we will refund you the $401. We have refunded your credit card, you should see it on your end in a couple days.
  Regards,
  
  Mr. ***** final response:
  For the record, I dont agree to your proposed resolution and this transaction is still open.
  
  In conclusion we had a leak on our work that we back out right away to fix.  I trusted ************ and his claim but after reviewing the information, my conversations with him, and his online reviews that he posted in attempt to sway our decision I have lost trust in what he said took place and the costs associated with them.
  
  
  

  Customer response

  06/04/2024

   
  Complaint: 21701061
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  -it is a false claim that my sump pump had sewer water damage. *he technician who came back to repair the pipe by water heater wouldve noted that on his report if indeed he himself saw or noticed that or if detected and sewer smell in the crawlspace. *hrough all my correspondences with the owner, he had not mention that he saw sewer water damage but he is now bringing it up.

  -*he technician initially said that to fix the laundry room pipe that he would have to replace a * connector/elbow. *he work agreement was to fix the water heater pipe in crawlspace and pipe in laundry room. When the technician finished work on the water heater pipe he continued work on the laundry room pipe. After he scraped the pipe and cut out a section of ceiling drywall he then said that to fix the pipe he just has to sweat it to seal the pipe and doesnt have to change the * connector/elbow. When he returned the next day, he is now saying he has to charge more for the part and labor but its the same work he quoted he would do initially.

  -I do not trust S and J to perform any more work at my property. *hey were unable to properly sweat a pipe properly which is a basic plumbing skill so how can I trust them to fix a sump pump system. 

  -S and J didnt evaluate the damage to the sump pump. *hey are making an assumption on how to fix it. *his is why I deferred to the original installers for their expert analysis which they said is to replace the sump pump system due to water damage from the leaking pipe.

  S and J performed work on my home that they purposely left out of the work order and deny details of the repair. Whatever their intentions was on doing this, its not proper business practice. Im asking for half of what I paid them originally since they only performed half of the work agreement. *he work they performed caused damage to my home and what Im asking for is to meet in the middle to have my sump pump system restored back to a proper working condition. 

  As of today, Im still seeking the following:

  -50% refund on what I paid since they only fixed one leaking pipe

  -An updated work order noting the work done in laundry room.

  -50% of the cost to fix my damage sump pump 

  
  ***********************

  

  Business response

  06/11/2024

  -The sewer water damage claim is evident in the pictures taken,that have been attached that the company who came out to quote replacement of unit. There is a sewer pipe above the unit in the picture with a temporary cap on it. Our technician never acknowledged damage to the unit only ************ has.Sewer smell does not indicate a past sewer drip or spill.
  -The technician had a conversation about the laundry pipe with ************. As per the signed invoice there was never an agreement to have this pipe repaired.
  -A sump pump is made to be submersed under water so to claim that it needs to be replaced because water sprayed on to it is false. The original installers never indicated why the pumps need to be replaced.
  
  As a courtesy and to show good faith we refunded ************ $401. $301 for the only electronic parts on the system that could be damaged by water (the rest of the system is made to be submersed under water) and $100 for any  inconvenience.  We still have no proof of any of the claims made by ************. 

  Customer response

  06/13/2024

   
  Complaint: 21701061
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

  Attached is email from *********************. *his email was sent after he reviewed all the notes from his technicians as well as the repair report from the original installers of the sump pump. In the email,  ********************* presents a remedy to fix my sump pump system and therefore accepts that the the sump pump was indeed damaged by S and J Plumbing.
  
  *here is no mention from ********************* regarding sewer damage claim from a temporary cap. He reviewed all the information that was presented to him and accepted responsibility for the damage.
  
  I have video of footage (timestamp 11:37:06 AM) of the technician saying to the other technician
  
  Let me get the channels locks so I can disconnect these hoses
  
  He was referring to the hoses connected to the laundry room pipe because he was about to disconnect them so the water will drain so he can replace the the  * connector pipe that he told me he was going to replace.
  

  In the video footage the S and J Plumbing technician can be seen scraping the pipe, disconnecting hoses, and cutting ceiling drywall. *hese are all part of the work that the technician said he was going to perform to replace the * connector.

  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************

• Initial Complaint

  10/26/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On 10/12/23 I had a problem with a sewer backup. I called S&J Plumbing. They sent out **** and another plumber. They did not explain the charges to me. They just handed me a tablet to give an electronic signature. They said I needed to pay to drain the pipe, and then for a camera, and then to rod the pipe to remove tree roots. I was charged a total of $2060.30. When I told my HOA, neighbors, friends, and relatives of the cost they all told me I was ripped off and it should have cost less than half of that. This is what it says on a recent Forbes article for the cost of rodding a sewer pipe for tree roots: Sewer Line Repair Prices Tree Roots Removing tree roots from a sewer line costs from $300 to $1,100, in total. Snaking the line costs on the lower end of the scale, while the price of hydro jetting is on the upper end. This matches what I got as estimates from other plumbers online. This plumber did snaking, not hydro jetting, so should have been on the lower side. $300 to snake the drain, maybe another $300 for everything else combined. It took them literally like 3 minutes to drain the water and they charged me $653.08 for a few minutes of work. Then they charged me for the camera which I really didn't even want but they said was necessary. that took them maybe 15 minutes total and they charged me $408.45. I was ripped off and overcharged by $1400. The owner called me today 10/26/23. He asked me why I left a poor review. I explained to him that the rodding should cost around $300 and he said "Yes if that's all they did". I was charged $1048.77 for what he agreed should be $300. That was just for the rodding. The going rate is $300. He tried to BS me and tell me because they had to put a tarp down to keep the floor clean that is why the extra charges. He continued to lie to me about what happened so I hung up. I had thought he called with good intentions to adjust the costs.

  

  Business response

  10/31/2023

  Thank you for your feedback as we are always looking to improve our systems and processes to better serve our customers. I have investigated this concern personally with diligence. I have spoken with both ******************** and ************** in length. Here is my understanding of what happened.  ******************** called in to our office on 10/12/23 to request service for his home due to toilet backing up and it overflows into the first floor when using the shower on the 2nd floor. Our tech arrived at ************************** home on the same day at 4:19 pm. Upon arrival the technician and his helper diagnosed the issue as main sewer backup. The only cleanout access in the home was inside the basement. Most homes have an outside cleanout, ********************** home does not have an outside cleanout. The technician verified that the sewer was charged (holding water). The technician then presented ******************** with 5 options and pricing. ******************** chose one of the options of Drain Charged Main and the cost associated with this and signed to accept on the tablet. This job entails using a special piece of equipment (zip drain, picture attached) to extract water from the sewer to prevent sewage from spilling all over the basement when removing the cleanout cap to rod the line. The technician completed this process then advised ******* from an Inside Cleanout with pricing which ******************** accepted and signed for on the tablet. The technician began to rod the sewer. During the rodding the technician pulled out a large root mass (picture attached) which was causing the blockage and not allowing water to drain from the house. The technician recommended a video inspection of the sewer be done due to his findings of this large root mass that is penetrating the pipe. The technician again presented this option and pricing to ******************** via tablet which was approved with signature. After video inspection (copies of the videos attached) was complete the technician gave ******************** an option with pricing for a permanent repair to avoid this situation from recurring to which ******************** declined. The technician and his helper cleaned up the area, collected payment and left. ********************** was very happy with the work and left us a 5-star review on Google.
  2 weeks later ******************** revised his 5-star review stating he was overcharged for the service on 10/12/23. In the review (picture attached) he explains that most plumbers charge a few hundred dollars for rodding. I do agree there are some companies that charge a couple hundred dollars to rod a sewer, from an outside cleanout. However, the scope of work needed for ********************** home was not just rodding a sewer. There was a charged main, rodding from an inside cleanout and video inspections with copies forwarded to ********************. The access point was inside the home which makes the job more difficult because the technician has to contend with keeping the inside of the home free from sewage while working. I believe ******************** comparing the scope of work that he researched on the internet is different from the scope of work we completed that day for him. I also believe that pricing on the internet does not reflect accurate costs of plumbing work in our market. I followed up and left a voicemail with ******************** as I promised him I would after speaking with the technician that was there at his home. I have not heard back from ******************** until this complaint filed here. I have also included the audit trial from our CRM software that outlines the steps the technician took while at this appointment. Thank you.
  
  

  Customer response

  11/07/2023

  Complaint: 20788715
  
  I am rejecting this response because: Hi, I never received a notice that the business had responded. According to the response it says I was given 5 choices of steps the plumber could do. This is false. The plumber would tell me what he was doing next and then hand me the tablet that basically only had a box to sign my name. I never saw any options. Second, this owner claims that **** removed a huge clump of roots and then decided to do the camera. That's false. He told me after he drained the water, which he said only took like 3 minutes, that he needed to do the camera next. I wasn't given an option. He said that was the next step. Also as far as gaining access to the pipe through my basement as opposed to through a clean out, it's much easier to access from my basement because it's a straight shot through the pipe. If he had accessed through a cleanout there would be a 90 degree bend. Nothing he type in his response would merit charging over $600 total for the service call. He charged me over $2,000 as shown on the attached invoice. If he doesn't wish to resolve this, that's on him. I will notify my HOA to remove his company from the recommended contractors list. Thanks,
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **********************; 

  

  Business response

  11/14/2023

  Thank you **** for your response. While I disagree with your response please call me at ************ so that we can resolve this issue to your satisfaction. Thank you. 

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩