ComplaintsforHawthorn Woods Auto Service

• Initial Complaint

  08/05/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Brought my Car Show classic to HW auto service at ********************************************************** to have a transmission seal replaced to fix a small leak. After they reinstalled the transmission there was a leak worse than before I brought the car in but I still was charged $1489.24. The only option they offered was that I can bring it in again and they would charge me another $1500 to try something else. They even got grease on the trunk deck, fender and door handle. Ended up by the time I got the car home the transmission was gushing fluid and my classic is now unusable. They are very friendly people there, but not fair at all. It is not right that I was charged that much money when the repair made my car worse. I would expect a refund for repair.

  Business response

  08/07/2023

  Good Morning ***, I am a little suprised to see a response like this from you. We had gone above and beyond to accomodate you on this repair. Firstly we had offered you a ride and or a free loaner car while the repairs were under way, which you denied and wished to wait for a 8+ hour repair. During the work we had brought you out into the shop multiple times to physically show you what leaks/damage was done to the transmission to ensure that you were well informed on the issues at hand. You had intially stated that you wished for only the front pump seal to be replaced, when the transmission was removed it was clear and appearant that there were other issues with this antique part. We had brought you out to the car and physically showed you the defect and informed you that this item as well would need to be repaired or replaced additionally or it may leak just the same. It was clearly stated that there are multiple other issues that need to be addressed, but it would take time to research and gather parts due to the niche/obscure nature of this 60 year old transmission, this could take a couple weeks to complete. You yourself said that you were not comfortable with leaving the car at a repair facility or garage other than your own overnight, let alone up to a couple weeks. You made it clear that due to insurance reasons the car must be at your house and cannot remain here. You had opted for the other option against our advice to re-assemble the transmission with the 1 new seal initially quoted, and to attempt to re-seal the rest transmission using the old rubber seals and a sealing agent in efforts to get the entire job done in one day. This was stated as a possible solution but was clearly stated that this has no guarantee and at worst will cause a leak. It was also stated that the transmission would have to come back out to seal/repair it in the correct fashion if it were to leak after this attempt. This is what was performed and despite great efforts to reseal the transmission it began to leak. We had informed you that the vehicle does have a significant leak as was noted to be possible from the start of this attempted repair.  When asked how much it would cost to fix the leak it was stated to be around $1500.00 dollars because this repair would have to be performed all over again, but rather in the correct fashion and waiting for the correct parts to do it properly. This was the service intially reccomnended.  You naturally were displeased that it was still leaking but did not dispute the bill for this was what was agreed upon before starting. We had also stated that due to the significant leak it is not advised to drive for there is increased risk to the health of the transmission, to which you acknowledged and wished for the car to be released anyway. We promptly pulled your car back out and gave you the keys as you wished. If ever you can, please call the main shop number at ************ and ask for ***** or ***. I myself would be more than happy to go over these issues and find the potential mis-communication that lead to your dissatisfaction with your experience at our facility. 

  Customer response

  08/23/2023

  Complaint: 20428533
  
  I am rejecting this response because: 

  After what Hawthorn Woods Automotive Service has been doing to us in response to a ****** review we left for them I cannot trust them to work on any of my cars in the future and if this activity continues we will follow-up with the information we have gathered.

   To clarify my experience with them, I Brought my classic car into HW auto service to have a transmission seal replaced to fix a small leak because I had seen older cars in for service when I brought my newer cars in for service.

   I stayed in the waiting room as I have with the some of my past other vehicle repairs. For my classic I wanted to wait for the repair.  I was told the transmission seal is a one day job so I got there a few minutes before 8am.

   They put my car up on the lift at 10:14am and they allowed me to take a picture of the under side of the car before they started working on it.  The mechanic worked on it until  lunch break.  After lunch he worked on it and at 1:27 I was notified that there was a seal that looked dry in what they called it a 3 piece torque converter.

   One of the owners said I would need a replacement torque converter and that part would be around $800.  In the mean time the tech writer/mechanic checked around for a torque converter and a seal kit and was not able to locate one.

   We discussed options and the one that sounded favorable was that they would use a "special transmission friendly" sealant around the older seal and the tech writer expressed confidence that would work.  He said worse case it would not leak more than when I brought it in.

   At that point I got my son on speaker phone and he heard him repeat that seal should fix the problem and if not, would not leak worse than when I bought it in.

   I then called my wife and got her on speaker phone so she could hear the same information before we went ahead with that option.  

   At 4:33 everything was hooked up but in their testing, the transmission was found to be leaking more than when I brought it in.  I asked if there would be a cost to fix this problem and I was told it would be another $1500 so I panicked and decided I was going to take it home and get it to a Transmission expert to look at it.

   Even though the transmission leak was worse than before I brought the car in for service, I was still charged $1489.24.  That charge does not make sense to me even if it was not leaking after the repair because  I was observing all day though the partially blocked up window and did not see the mechanic working more than 4 hours on my car, so at $145 per hour labor rate that should have been $580 in labor plus $225.90 in parts totaling $805.90.

   While I was driving my car home and going up the final hill on my street, the transmission started dumping a large amount of transmission fluid so I had to pull over and get more transmission fluid added so I could drive the car into the garage.

   When in the garage I noticed and cleaned up grease/oil off the trunk deck, fender and door handle. I am not happy with the service or the future remediation option and I feel I have the right to express my dissatisfaction.

   I have since talked with transmission experts and that transmission does not have a torque converter, it has a fluid coupler. 

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************; 

  Business response

  08/24/2023

  In response to letter of rejection.
  
  We are sorry that you feel as though we cannot be trusted based on your experience at our facility, I have reviewed your most recent statement carefully and feel as though
  I may be able to shed some light on some appearant mis-communications and or misunderstandings.
  
  Correct the vehicle was placed on the lift shorlty after your arrival with the vehicle and the technician began the process of removing your transmission, you were brought out to the shop under the guidance of the service writer because you requested to take some photos of the underbody while the car was in the air. 
  
  When the transmission was removed and the condition of the other seal not previously in agreement to replace was noted as being in need of replacement we had walked you back out into the shop area and physically showed you the condition of this additional seal, and susbsequently why it needed to be replaced. You were informed that this seal is not the same part you requested to us to replace, although this item requires replacemnt to ensure a fluid tight seal. 
  
  A seal kit to potentially re-seal the torque converter with a new seal was searched for but yielded no immediate results. One of the owners had stated that the nearly 60 year old torque converter has signs of mechanical wear along with the before-mentioned additional seal located inside the converter needs to be replaced. This is the best course of action and would ensure smooth and leak free operation. Although this process could potentially take weeks to do simply due to the lenghty research required for this antique transmission, and logistics of obatining parts potentially from across the country. You exoressed that you were not comfortable with leaving the vehicle in our possession dissasembled overnight. And that due to insurance reasons it must remain in your garage, you had then asked if there was anything that could possibly be done to drive your car back home that same day as originally intended.
  
  To this the service writer had stated the only other possible plan of action would be to replace the inital seal agreed upon, and re install the original torque converter that was clearly showing signs of mechanical wear and had an old seal that was in need of replacment. Once again you were walked out into the shop and physically shown these obvious defects to due the parts being nearly 60 years old. In efforts to increase the possibilty of the old seal being fluid tight upon installation the service writer had stated that an effort of using a sealing agent on the defective part would be done. Although we were hopefull this may work for you, it was clearly stated that this has has no form of warranty as this is not the correct way of repairing this part.  This was offered as the only other possible option rather than waiting for a couple weeks to replace the parts in the correct fashion as originally reccomended by the owner that you had denied wanting to pursue.
  
  You had spoken on the phone with both your wife and son numerous times and came to the conclusion that you would like to have the original seal agreed upon replaced, and that you would like for the additional seal in the defective torque converter to be re-used along with a sealing agent to have the car done that same day as originally hope. You had acknowledged the fact that this repair is not guaranteed to be fluid tight. When you had asked the service writer as to what the worst possible outcome could be if this attempt is not sucessful, the service writer responded stating the transmission would leak transmission fluid in the worst case senario. When you asked how much it could leak, the service writer had stated it may leak less, the same, or more fluid then before as it is unknown until the job is done. 
  
  When the job was done it was noted that the transmission was still leaking, in this case quite severely. You understandably were upset, being hopeful that this attempt would remedey the leak. You had then asked what would need to be done to repair the leak, you were then told that the job would need to be perfomed again and the torque converter would need a new seal or be replaced as originally reccomended and previously denied by yourself. You were told this would be at least $1500.00 dollars to complete, for this previous attempt was not warrantied nor guaranteed to work. This of course you had acknowledged earlier and you asked us to proceed still. 
  
  You then stated that you would like to drive the car home and asked if it was safe to do so. The service writer had reccomended the vehicle be towed so as to avoid any potential damage to the transmission due to fluid loss. You stated that you were aware that it was going to leak a siginificant amount of fluid, but that you lived only a mile or so away. You then requested the vehicle be pulled out and the keys returned to you so that you may leave, to which we promptly  did as requested. 
  
  To your claim that you had only seen a technician work on your car for a mere 4 hours is simply false. For most of this repair 2 technicians worked on this job at the same time to ensure the job was done by the end of the day as you requested. If somehow a single technician was able to perform this repair in only 4 hours, the technician is still paid for the full repair regardless if able to complete sooner. This is how any and all automotive repair facilites base their pricing and pay their employees. Either way this was the price agreed upon from the very beginning, to which you understood and signed. 
  
  As for your last concern about the verbage of the defective part in question, a fluid coupler is another term for torque converter. This item is coupled to both rear of the engine and front of the transmission. This item is filled with hydraulic transmission fluid. Thus the term fluid coupler, more commonly know as a "Torque Converter".
  
  Please feel free to contact us with any other questions or concerns on either this matter.
  
  -Hawthorn Woods Auto Service
  **************
  
  

  Customer response

  08/29/2023

   
  Complaint: 20428533
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I verified with those I had separate speaker phone call that the sealing agent over the gasket could stop the leak but at worst case it would not leak more than when I brought it in.  We felt that solution would be acceptable so we all agreed to move ahead with that solution.
  
  I was asked to bring my car in about a week prior to this repair so they could diagnose the leak and see what parts they needed to order.  They captured all of the information off the transmission identification tag and I waited for them to get the parts before I scheduled a time to come in for the repair.
  
  In talking with transmision experts, they are telling me that based on the transmission identification tag, the most common leak for that transmission is the "Flywheel to Torus Cover Seal" which should have been located and ordered before any type of repair was attempted.
  
  I do not consider the remediation option for me to give them another $1500 so they can attempt to fix the leak again as a fair option.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩