ComplaintsforE.M. Snow, Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  05/06/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  In February, 2016, I contracted with *************, Waltham, ** to replace my asphalt shingle roof. Upon completion, I received a 10 year warranty against installation defects. Over the ensuing years, I had ************* return 6-8 times to fix various leaks that occurred. The most recent leak occurred and was communicated via email to ************* on August 25, 2023. On May 1, 2024, a crew was dispatched to undertake repairs. Earlier in the day, I met with *****************, President of *************, and his ************************. I was told the problem was likely from an area around the chimney, and was told they would strip, and reapply shingles to fix the leak. That day, when the crew arrived, after examination, one of the men explained that he believed water was penetrating the mortar atop of the chimney cap, and a ***** was needed to fix the problem. I accompanied the crew onto the roof and told them I would find a ***** to remediate. I was then told by the crew-chief (*****) that they would still go ahead and undertake the stripping and reapplication of shingles as instructed by **** and ****, which they did. The next morning, I received an email (attached) saying that I owed $2,500 for "non-warranty" related work from *************. I don't believe I owe the money for the following reasons: 1. It's still not clear water penetrated the mortar on the chimney-cap sufficient to cause a leak in my foyer. I have contacted a ***** who will be undertaking possible repairs to the chimney cap, assuming they are warranted.2. Even if this turns out to be the cause of the leak, ************* should have discovered this to be a possible cause prior to undertaking any work. They are the roofing experts, and should be expected to make proper determination before undertaking work.3. The roofing crew discovered the failing mortar as a possibility for the leak BEFORE they undertook the recent, additional stripping and re-roofing around the chimney for which they are now invoicing. There was no reason to do that work if they believed they had discovered the source of the leak. I was told by *****, the crew chief, that they were going to do what they were told after they saw what they believed was a different cause. I did not ask them to do it.4. Either way, I should not be responsible for work done without having been given an estimate in advance for non-warranty covered remediation.For these reasons, I am filing this complaint, and will not be paying the $2,500 invoice.

  

  Business response

  05/07/2024

  ***************** responded on multiple occasions to the customer's complaint of a roof leak  over the years since was the roof was completed in 2015 (9 years ago).  
  

  After repeated attempts by ***************** to  repair the customer's roof in this particular area including re-shingling  the area  and finding nothing wrong with our work, we finally determined the source of the leak was an issue at the TOP  of the chimney and had nothing to with ***************** roof workmanship. 

   We assumed the homeowner was correct that the leak was due to a roof issue because it was reported there was never a leak in the  area of concern before we worked on the roof.  

   Our  roofing employees are trained in best roofing practices only. They are not trained in siding or windows and are certainly not home inspectors.  There was little chance they were going to find a leak at the TOP of a chimney.    

  We sent an invoice in the hopes the customer would thank ***************** for finding a leak that had nothing to do with roof work and  understand that we were just looking to recoup a small portion of our expenses over the last 9 years for an incorrectly reported roof leak.   

  Instead of a thank you, the  only response by the  customer to our service and the invoice we just emailed him 3 days ago (Friday 5/3) , an invoice that are still awaiting payment for,  is a complaint to the Better Business Bureau instead of any attempt by the customer to reach to ***************** to discuss the unpaid invoice. 

   

  Customer response

  05/08/2024

  Better Business Bureau:I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ********. Please add your rejection comments below; if you do not provide any details, your complaint will be closed as Answered. 

  ************* installed a new asphalt-shingle roof on my home at ************************************************************ in 2015.  The cost was $39,000, and the installation included a 10 year labor warranty.  Prior to ***************** installation my roof had never leaked. The reason the roof was replaced was because of prior hail-stone damage. Shortly after installation, the new roof began to leak in a low-slope area just above my entranceway foyer and it proved difficult for ************* to determine the cause of the leak, or how to repair it. By the time the leak was identified and cured, the entire ceiling of my foyer needed to be re-plastered and repainted, an expense borne solely by me. This is the same area where the most recent leak occurred.
  

  So when the same area over my foyer began to leak again, it was perfectly logical for me to assume that this low-slope area which had proven difficult to fix in the past was once again the cause. Consequently,I took the opportunity to exercise my 10 year warranty, and contacted ************* in August of 2023.  It took several months for them to finally arrive and attempt repairs, and I was hopeful by Mid January 2024 that the completed repairs would solve the problem.
  That was not to be the case. The leak continued and so I contacted ************* again, who came to attempt further repairs.  Each of the 3 consecutive times the attempts failed, I contacted ************* with pictures and videos of water leaking into the ceiling of my foyer.  
  On May 1st of this year, ***************** and his ************************ arrived to assess the situation, and told me afterwards they were going to strip and reapply shingles to a new area, adjacent to the bottom of the chimney, an area they believed was causing the leak.  
  

  The repair crew arrived that afternoon, and I was summoned to come to the roof to see what they had discovered.  One of the crew believed the leak was the result of some crumbling masonry around a flue on the chimney cap. I asked the crew-members if they knew of a ***** who could take a look, and was told they did not, so I contacted a ***** recommended by a local builder who is scheduled to render an opinion in the next two weeks.  
  By ************* sending me an invoice for $2,500, the suggestion is that I should have been able to identify the cause of the leak, and the fact that I did not meant I was responsible for EM Snows failed remediation attempts.  Those efforts were done under the auspices of an in-place warranty, and there was never any consideration that if, in fact, their efforts failed and the leak was due to some other cause, that I would be responsible for the work done by *************.
  If ************* had any suspicion that the problem was not due to their workmanship, they should have suggested the same before they began their own multiple attempts to re-shingle that area of the roof.  I, as the homeowner, knew one thing:  prior to their arrival, my roof did not leak, and subsequent to their roofing installation, and still within the warranted period, my roof leaked.  EM ***** claim that they are not masons and therefore should not be responsible for leaks caused by defects in masonry atop the chimney suggests that I, as homeowner, am responsible for ruling out all other potential causes atop my roof once it has begun to leak. To wit, it was not me, but a crew member of ***************** that discovered the alleged (but, to date, unproven) source of the leak. 

  Furthermore, it's questionable why after having discovered the loose chimney-cap mortar, ************* decided to re-shingle that area again rather than waiting to see whether a repair to the masonry solved the problem.
  

  Overall, the totality of the work that ************* undertook in their multiple attempts to fix the most recent leak were done under the provisions of the 10 year labor warranty.  I am sorry that ************* did not discover what may, in fact, turn out to be the source of the leak before undertaking the multiple attempts, but expecting that I should be responsible for determining that there was another cause of the leak, and therefore responsible for payment of prior efforts undertaken by a roofing company with whom I have an in-place warranty seems unreasonable. 
  

  In short,I should not be responsible for work done as part of a warranty that turns out not to have been necessary. As roofing installers and contractors, it is EM Snows responsibility to properly assess the situation and remediate as warranted.
  
  

  ***** *************, May 08, 2024

  
  Businesses and Customers should be civil, courteous and polite in their responses to complaints. It is important to remain professional and productive when participating in the BBB complaint process.
  
  FAQ
  
  Regards,

  *****

   

   

  

  Business response

  05/13/2024

  Unfortunately we don't accept the  customer rejection and believe our work and the bill is valid and we stand firm in our response. 

   

   

   

   

  Customer response

  05/14/2024

  Better Business Bureau:I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ********. Please add your rejection comments below; if you do not provide any details, your complaint will be closed as Answered. 

  My response is simple:  All work done by ************* was done under the guidelines of their 10 year labor warranty.  There is no provision in their warranty for billing me for work done by ************* that misses the root cause of the problem.  Additionally, since no oral or written estimate was provided in advance of the work undertaken, I am not responsible for the bill.  

   
  Businesses and Customers should be civil, courteous and polite in their responses to complaints. It is important to remain professional and productive when participating in the BBB complaint process.
  
  FAQ
  
  Regards,

  *****

   

   

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