ComplaintsforFischer & Frichtel Homes

• Initial Complaint

  02/07/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  See attached document.

  On 4/14/2021, I purchased a newly constructed Fischer & Frichtel (F&F) home in the Brightleaf devel-opment in Wildwood. Overall, I’ve found few problems with the house—except for two big, long-standing defects in the HVAC system.
  1.    Within the first month after I moved in, I notified F&F of a 24/7 “drip” noise in the HVAC sys-tem, audible throughout the house, but loudest at the air return in the hallway to the bed-rooms. F&F Supervisor **** verified the noise and brought DesignAire, F&F’s HVAC contractor, over to solve the problem. DesignAire told me “You’ll just have to live with it,” an unacceptable solution given that I paid over $591,000 for the home. Since then, F&F has applied various “fix-es.” All have failed. To date, there is no evidence of water in the vents, but long-term, mois-ture in the vents will cause corrosion and the build-up of carbon monoxide; eventually, the system may require replacement.
  2.    With frigid weather in January, 2022, ice developed at the top of the HVAC flue venting though my roof. Day or night, ice would break off from the flue, hit the roof, then slide down into my backyard. Dangerous to any person or animal nearby, the ice problem remains, despite efforts by F&F and DesignAire.
  •    Working in the kitchen on 1/29/22 at 2:30 PM, there was a loud crashing sound coming from the other side of the house. Small chunks of ice were scattered on my lawn. One chunk lodged itself in the gutter, distorting it.
  •    Similar ice slides occurred on 2/12/22 (9:15 AM) and 2/14/22 (11:08 AM).
  •    At 3:15 AM on 2/23/22, a loud crash on the roof right above my head woke me up. I collected the ice chunks at dawn. In all, they weighed more than 1 lb. After yet more site visits, DesignAire, placed a “windpipe” at the top of the flue on 4/18/22 to prevent the formation of ice at the top of the flue.
  •    More frigid Arctic weather late evening 12/24/22 brought more ice crashing onto my roof at 11:20PM; at 12:20AM 12/25/22, 1:18AM, 1:40AM, 1:50AM, 3:04AM, and 3:58AM. Yet another chunk of ice slid down my roof at 12:45 AM, 12/26/22. The chunk weighed 4 lbs., 8 oz., and it’s about 5” wide and 17” long. I again alerted F&F, asked for a response—and hopefully a solution—by 1/31/23. I have yet to hear from F&F.
  
  Anticipating F&F’s continued inability/unwillingness to solve this almost two-year ice problem and hav-ing no confidence whatsoever in DesignAire, I contacted 2 HVAC companies in January 2023. West County Heating & Cooling quickly noted that the 10,000 BTU furnace vents into a 4” horizontal pipe that then empties into a 6” diameter vertical flue running up through the roof. Per its BTU chart, the entire length of the vertical flue should be no larger than 5”. Ballpark cost to install a liner to shrink the 6” di-ameter flue: $700.
  
  Subsequently, ***** Air, here to install a whole-house humidifier, recommended the identical solu-tion. Estimated cost: $1,000-$1,500.
  
  I identified this problem on F&F’s the “10 month Punch List.” F&F’s multiple efforts to date have failed. I ask BBB to break through my stalemate with F&F, get me reimbursed for the diagnostic trip charges ($190 for West County Heating; Inman’s diagnosis was at no cost), authorize me to hire any licensed HVAC company other than DesignAire without voiding the home’s Warranty, and pay for the remedia-tion of this long-standing HVAC defect.
  
  Given that the “drip” problem has abated somewhat—I hear it only 2-3 times a day now—I will defer replacement of the entire vent system at this time.
  

  

  Business response

  02/09/2023

  In reference to claim # ********. Our company along with our subcontractors have always been and continues to be willing to rectify the complainants concerns. We have made various onsite visits in an attempt to rectify the issue with the complainants HVAC B VENT flue pipe that only experiences ice build up on extremely cold days. Our company along with our subcontractors would prefer to continue to work with the complainant to rectify this particular issue. We are more than willing to reimburse the complainant for the  $190.00 third party diagnostic service call. If the complainant opts to not allow our subcontractor that preformed the original installation of her HVAC equipment to service their work, we would be willing to work with the complainant as a good faith measure to hire a qualified third party HVAC company of her choice and compensate accordingly providing the company she chooses stays within the cost perimeters she references in her claim. We will patiently await the complainants response.   Tell us why here...

  Customer response

  02/23/2023

  I apologize for delaying my comments on Fischer & Frichtel’s (F&F) response to the complaint I filed with BBB on 2/7/23. Urgent and critical business claimed every last bit of my time and energy last week.

  I will, of course, accept F&F’s offer to reimburse me for my out-of-pocket costs to identify, then repair/correct whatever it is that causes ice to form on the HVAC flue whenever Arctic weather blows in, breaks loose. and then skis down my roof into my backyard.

  This, however, does not mean that I consider the matter closed.

  I bought this property from F&F on April 14, 2021. Within the first two weeks, I notified F&F of a 24/7 “dripping” sound in my vent system, loud enough to wake me from a sound sleep. F&F has attempted to fix the “drip” multiple times. The problem continues because its efforts have been BandAid-type patches designed to muffle the sound, not to cure the problem. Neither F&F nor DesignAire, its HVAC contractor, have done anything to identify the source of the drip, and I’ve not gotten a full uninterrupted night’s sleep in over 22 months.

  Ice slides first occurred on 1/26/2022, my first winter living in the house, and the first Arctic blast of the 2022/23 winter season. Eleven months and several site visits by F&F later, the problem still exists. On 12/26/22, I emailed F&F about multiple, successive ice slides on 12/24, 12/25, and 12/26. I received a response on 12/30/23, saying that F&F didn’t “know what we’ll do or if there is anything new” to be done.

  At that point, I concluded that my depending on F&F to fix a defective HVAC system met the definition of insanity: I was doing the same thing over and over (working through F&F and DesignAire) and expecting a different result. It was time to get fresh resources working on the problem.

  Hoping to avoid yet another night of sleep interrupted by the second defect in my HVAC system, the ice slides doing untold damage to my roof and gutters, I consulted two independent HVAC contractors. Both indicated that a flue liner would do the trick, an action no one from F&F or DesignAire had thought to mention. I authorized the less costly bid ($685), and the liner was inserted on 2/10/23.

  Has the liner has solved the ice problem? I won’t know until we get another blast of Arctic air. Given St. Louis weather, getting that proof is simply a matter of time.

  Working to place the liner, however, my contractor found that the windpipe—installed by DesignAire on 4/18/22—was wet and dripping water down the flue, despite our then dry-and-windy weather. The windpipe screws were completely rusted. While moisture is a natural by-product of combustion, the amount on the windpipe was far more than my contractor expected. That on-going moisture may well be the actual cause of the 24/7 drip problem. It certainly indicates that at least some part of the ventilation system will eventually rust out and require replacement, undoubtedly an expensive proposition.

  And of course, after becoming less frequent for a month or two, the “drip” has now returned as our weather gradually warms. The drip is again at full force, audible night and day, despite my use of ear plugs.

  After 22 months of failed trial-and-error attempts to remedy these defects, I have no reason to believe that F&F and/or DesignAire will ever develop and execute a lasting solution to either problem.

  My next steps? Before any vent rusts away, I’ll recontact my two HVAC contractors (and other resources, if necessary) to determine what it will take to stop the drip once and for all.

  Although I have no plans to sell at this time, I believe that this property is unsaleable in its current condition, despite F&F’s belief that I have no obligation to disclose either the periodic ice slides or the 24/7 drip. Common sense tells me otherwise. A post-sale lawsuit is a risk I’m not willing to assume.

  

  Business response

  03/02/2023

  In response to the complainant.  Our company will reimburse the complainant for her out of pocket cost for the third party inspection and third party work performed to date to install a sleeve in the B vent HVAC flue.  As far as the  remaining comments listed in the complainant's response, with the utmost respect for our customer our company does not agree with all of her comments based on the documentation and emails on file.  More specifically band-aide type patches, lack of effort on behalf of our company and our subcontractor to identify the source, defective material and workmanship regarding her HVAC system, certain accusations by or employees.  In an effort to offset any further animosity between our company and our valued customer we would appreciate the opportunity to work with our customer to come to an amicable resolution regarding her concerns.  Providing our customer is in agreeance, a representative of our company would appreciate the chance to speak or meet with our customer at her earliest convenience.
  

  Customer response

  03/10/2023

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

  I’m certainly open to F&F taking yet another shot at this blasted “drip.” As I’ve said before, the problem continues not for lack of effort by F&F over the last 23 months. In fact, F&F has gone to great lengths to solve this mystery, even calling a 6 (or was it 7?) man pow-wow on-site last April to brainstorm yet more possible solutions.  I brought in outside HVAC resources onlyaftera 12/30/22 email from F&F customer service, saying that F&F didn’t “know what we’ll do at this moment or if there is anything new we can do.”

  What else could I have done at that point, other than call in non-F&F contractors, even though I risked voiding the warranty on the house?

  I hold no animus toward F&F or any of its employees. As I’ve said multiple times, both verbally and in writing, F&F employees have consistently treated me with utmost courtesy and respect. Yes, an F&F employee and I did go a couple of rounds of “Yes, I do. No, you don’t” about whether I would need to disclose the “ice slide + drip” problem if it still exists when I sell the property. That dust-up ended when I decided that we were at the “agree-to-disagree” stage and retreated to my kitchen.

  Over about a 7-month period, beginning in September 2020, I watched F&F transform a vacant lot into an amazing piece of work. I’m in awe of the brains, muscle, and sheer grit that went into creating this home—during the height of COVID, no less. Building this house was a complicated, challenging undertaking, with an endless number of moving pieces required to come together at just the right time. Problemsdidshow up post-sale, but, as I’ve also said and written many times, except for this blasted “drip/ice slide” business, I found nothing more than a handful of almost trivial problems that needed attention. That fact alone is a jaw-dropping wonder and a clear testimony to the quality of F&F’s work.

  I think it’s beyond time to put a full stop to this on-going drama and do whatever it takes to wave a permanent “Good-bye” to drips and ice slides. Let’s just get on with it, shall we?

  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** ******

  

  Business response

  03/15/2023

  Our company appreciates the willingness of our customer to allow us to continue to work with her to bring resolution to the concerns as outlined with in her complaint. A representative from our company will contact our customer and schedule a time that is agreeable to both parties to meet.Tell us why here...

  Customer response

  03/18/2023

  I accept F&F’s proposal as a “next step” in solving this almost-24-month-long “drip” HVAC problem. Unfortunately, I cannot consider it a final resolution. To restore the property to its full and true market value, and to relieve me of my obligation to disclose the problem to a potential buyer, this matter will remain open until the “drip” is undetectable by a person with normal, unimpaired hearing for a full year’s heating/cooling cycle. I again want to emphasize that F&F has gone to great lengths to solve this puzzle since I first identified it. Although I give F&F—and me!—a solid A for effort, we’re simply not done yet.

• Initial Complaint

  12/12/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  6/2020 Closed on my home built by Fischer & Frtichel. During final walkthrough, concrete discoloration was noted on porch. Was told this was due to the concrete completing the curing process. 3/2022 Contacted *** ********** (HOA management company) regarding damage to my driveway and porch, possibly due to chemicals used by snow removal company. *** ****** (snow removal company) provided chemical analysis that the damage was not caused by their chemicals. *** asked that I submit photos of the damage to them so that they could seek repair from the builder and concrete subcontractor, ******** ********. 4/2022 Called **** ****, Fischer & Fritchel, to discuss. He said that they were considering a solution that would require the cost of the new driveway and porch be split between Fischer & Fritchel, ********, and the homeowner. I told him this was unacceptable, 9/2022 Began e-mail follow-up with **** ****, with last e-mail o 12/1/2022. Mr. **** has yet to respond. My home is unsellable in its current condition, and my driveway and porch continue to disintegrate.

  

  Business response

  12/16/2022

  To Whom It May Concern, the complainant closed on her home on June 30, 2020. At the time of contract October 26, 2019 the complainant received a copy of the Residential Warranty Corporation RWC 10 Year Limited Warranty Booklet. This is the sole warranty provided to the purchaser. The purchaser also signed a document stating that she had received the RWC Warranty booklet. On the date of closing the complainant signed the RWC Application Form enrolling her into the warranty and received a carbon copy of the signed application form along with a second RWC Warranty Booklet for her file and future reference. On page 5 of the warranty booklet under section E. Exclusions, paragraph L it clearly states driveways, walkways, patio, porches and stoops are excluded from the warranty. It is a given fact that exterior poured in place concrete is susceptible to all exterior elements. For this reason we provide a hand out in the homeowner’s closing packet recommending to seal their exterior concrete annually with a quality concrete sealer to help in protecting their concrete from the various weather elements.  Scaling or spalling of exterior poured in place concrete is cosmetic in nature and does not impact the structural integrity of concrete and in most cases does not require replacement. The Midwest region had experienced snow and ice and single digit temperatures during the winter months of 2020 and 2021. These significant weather events resulted in numerous freeze and thaw cycles where the ice and snow was melted by method of applying deicing product. Once the deicing product melted the frozen precipitation whether it be snow or ice or both the residual moisture penetrated the concrete froze and expanded causing pop outs or rupture of the aggregate. The builder is aware that multiple applications of deicing products was used to clear the ice and snow per the complainants villa community snow removal service which is one of the maintenance services covered under her monthly assessment. These deicing products contain chemicals that have been found to be corrosive to exterior concrete. All deicing chemical manufacturers recommend removing their product in short fashion once it has done its job to avoid possible damage to the concrete. The builder feels that the product issues the complainant mentions in her customer statement is not a result of defect in material or labor but an unfortunate occurrence as explained in the builder’s response. There are a number of reputable companies here locally that specialize in restoration of cosmetic impacted concrete surfaces. Providing the complainant is receptive the builder would certainly be willing to discuss this process as a remedy to her concrete concerns.     

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