ComplaintsforOchs Auto Sales & Powersports

• Initial Complaint

  01/25/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We was told in may a 2021 side by side was already ordered and would be in in June and gaurenteed it would be in by July of 2021. They asked for 1000 down to hold it. We out the 1,000 down over the phone and nothing was ever mentioned about it being a non refundable deposit. In September we still have not received our 2021 model and they released the 2022 models and we was told we could switch and get the newer model and it would be in by October or November. In November we called and they said to expect it in December with a bow wrapped around it for Christmas. It’s now January 25 2022 and they are telling us maybe March. We have been lied to multiple times over the last 9 months and still have no machine and now they refuse to refund our 1000 (deposit) that they failed to have us sign anything on or even tell us it was non refundable under any kind of scenario. Not to mention after taking our 1,000 down and changing our models from the 21 to the 22 they changed the amount of setup and freight fee and tried telling us we either had to pay it or lose the 1000.00$ after researching there website and reading other’s experiences it seems they are making there profit off of lieng and misleading their customers and taking there 1000.00$ down payment (deposit) then changing their set up and fright fees to a higher number or not providing them with the machine and making them wait multiple months in this case 9 months and still counting all while telling the customer false information on arrival time. Very shady dishonest thieves that are stealing customers money!!!

  Business response

  01/26/2022

  To whom it may concern,
  
  We have received the complaint and have investigated the customer’s claims in response to the claim we have prepared the below response regarding the customer allegations. Please note all store visitation and phone calls are recorded and we are using facts from these documents obtained by us to present this information.
  
  
  Timeline –
  06/13/2021 The complainant decides they want to put down a non-refundable deposit on unit that is showing on our incoming list that had an estimated ship date of June. The unit was a 2021 Can-am Commander MAX DPS in Tundra Green.
  07/08/2021 ******* ***** calls from ********** on a recorded line and mentions he read online no dealers will be taking orders new orders until September 2021. We let him know this was correct and he decided to wait out on the 2021 and was told, that orders placed on new units in September would put units out to arrive even further for a couple months. Customer states he wanted to run credit
  07/25/2021 Customer comes in and sees another customer unit order that has come in that was blue. They start to mention to their salesperson they would rather have blue but don’t want to lose their deposit so they would be willing to stay with the same unit as stated on recorded video from the store.
  08/10/2021 The customer called in after being notified that their order has been delayed because of global shortages (An issue out of our control as we are not the manufacturer). The customer then decides they no longer wants the green color and would like to change their order to blue. The only option for a blue color would be to step up a model into a more expensive model. The customer was informed that they would no longer be able to order a 2021 as there are none available on the shipment due report. The customer was told we could order them a 2022 when they are announced. The customer asked what the price was and we told them at this time we did not have pricing on the 2022 models yet
  08/19/2021 Customer decides they would like to change their unit on order into a 2022 Commander MAX XT in Octane Blue along with A windshield, Back windshield, Complete Audio System, Blinker kit, and a 30-Month Extended Warranty.
  09/19/2021Original Unit that was ordered arrives. Customer is contacted verifying they no longer wanted the unit. They stated they didn’t want that one and were willing to wait.
  01/20/2022 Customer states they want their money back. Was reminded it is nonrefundable.
  01/25/2022 Customer returns call and tries to bully us into returning money or else she was going to go to Better Business Bureau as well as lawyer. She was told we were firm on our policy and are sticking with it.
  Unfortunately, we are experiencing time constraints with shipments of vehicles as is the whole world. We are in our 3rd calendar year of dealing with Covid and it has been a very challenging time for us as well as customers. With that being said, the following statements are in response to ******* ***** and ******** ***** allegations.
  
  Allegation: Customer BBB Statement states, “We was told in may a 2021 side by side was already ordered and would be in in June and gaurenteed it would be in by July of 2021”
  
  Response - All dates set with the manufacturer are estimated and can never be guaranteed by Ochs Powersports because we are not the manufacturer of this product, and we are currently experiencing delays on all products. Any such claim that a guarantee was made must require a written document and at this the time the customer has not presented this proving this as a false claim. However, it was true that this unit was estimated by the manufacturer to arrive in June it had since been delayed multiple times due to circumstances out of the control of Ochs Powersports.  The unit ended up delivering in September of 2021. The customer claimed of being told this in May is proven false as, the deposit was made on 06/13/2021 proving the customer is not capable of producing a proper timeline of the events.
  
  Allegation: They asked for 1000 down to hold it. 
  
  Response: The customer was asked to place a non-refundable deposit to commit to the purchase of a 2021 Can-am Commander MAX DPS 1000R in Tundra Green. By making this purchase the customer agreed to be able to provide the funds in any way possible to purchase this vehicle when it arrives no matter the circumstance. In agreement with the non-refundable deposit, Ochs Powersports agreed to deliver a 2021 Can-am Commander MAX DPS 1000R in the order their deposit was received.
  
  Allegation: We out the 1,000 down over the phone and nothing was ever mentioned about it being a non refundable deposit.
  
  Response: All deposits are non-refundable as stated by our company policy and industry policy. Deposits are made to show commitment. Not for a customer to be able to change their mind after hours of work has been put into their deal to properly provide them with the correct vehicle.
  
  Allegation: In September we still have not received our 2021 model and they released the 2022 models and we was told we could switch and get the newer model and it would be in by October or November. 
  
  Response: By September 19th, 2021, their pre-ordered unit had come in and they were told they could still take this one. They decided at this time they would wait for the 2022 Commander MAX XT 1000R in Octane Blue and didn’t want the unit that had came in. The customer was told they could exercise their option to switch the deposit unit one time and they chose this option. In a phone call received and recorded on 07/31/2021 the customer was notified the orders for the 2022 model year units could be placed in October or November and the units would take months to arrive after the order has been placed. No time period or price was available at this time and all-time frames were stated as estimates.
  
  Allegation: In November we called and they said to expect it in December with a bow wrapped around it for Christmas. 
  
  Response: No such phone call was made to the store from any numbers on record for both ******* ***** and ******** *****. As stated in past responses. We do not guarantee any time frames.
  
  Allegation:  It’s now January 25 2022 and they are telling us maybe March.
  
  Response: This allegation is correct. After Delays we have an Estimated time frame of March for the Delivery of this unit.
  
  Allegation: We have been lied to multiple times over the last 9 months and still have no machine and now they refuse to refund our 1000 (deposit) that they failed to have us sign anything on or even tell us it was non refundable under any kind of scenario.
  
  Response: We have been upfront with the customer on the status of their purchase in every step with the information available to us. The timeline doesn’t match up to 9-months. The customer placed a deposit in June. Their unit arrived in September. That is 3-months. In September they declined that unit and decided to wait. It has been 4 Months since that decision. It is also in our policy that we do not refund a non-refundable deposit, The customer’s states they did not sign a document but signed for this when the credit card was used to make the deposit. The customer was made aware this was non-refundable.
  
  Allegation:  Not to mention after taking our 1,000 down and changing our models from the 21 to the 22 they changed the amount of setup and freight fee and tried telling us we either had to pay it or lose the 1000.00$ after researching there website and reading other’s experiences it seems they are making there profit off of lieng and misleading their customers and taking there 1000.00$ down payment (deposit) then changing their set up and fright fees to a higher number or not providing them with the machine and making them wait multiple months in this case 9 months and still counting all while telling the customer false information on arrival time. 
  
  Response:  We are in the business to provide customer’s with Vehicles. We are not in the business of deposits. Anyone thinking we can survive off a $1,000.00 deposit doesn’t understand economics very well. And as state on the phone call 01/25/2022 BRP takes that deposit from us to mark the unit pre-sold. We did not take the deposit the customer willingly placed the deposit committing to purchasing this unit. Regarding changing model years, we did this from the customer request, so I am confused why this is portrayed as a negative business practice. All pricing was agreed upon switching via recorded phone call, so this claim is false. We provide every customer with a machine and do not make the pay for the full amount until they have received the final product making the next claim false as well. The total customer wait time has been 7-months. The total time the customer has been waiting for their current unit has been 4 months. We do not tell customer false information we relay information provided to us. In this case the vehicle experienced delays and the customer was notified along the way. This would be considered best practice to update the customer, not lying. As far as the customer stating we have multiple issues with this. We don’t. All customers understand the times we are in and have been delivered their unit accordingly. You can see from google reviews and FB reviews that we take care of a lot of our customers. Unfortunately, you can’t make every customer happy and that’s life.
  
  Allegation: Very shady dishonest thieves that are stealing customers money!!!
  
  Response: In response to this slanderous statement, I would like to answer with a question to the complainant. What part of you willingly placing a non-refundable deposit, makes us shady or a thief?
  
  
  Desired Settlement: Other (requires explanation)
  Refund; Return of down payment (deposit) 1000.00$ immediately
  
  Response: At this time, we are sticking with our policy, and we will not be bullied by a BBB complaint or threatened with lawyers when we are practicing ethical policies and legal policies. At this time, the customer’s deposit has been documented as forfeited by customer.

• Initial Complaint

  09/16/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Sales and Advertising Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I bought a side by side ATV from them. They would not let me test drive it there. I got it home, I drove about 20 miles and noticed the transmission slipping. The axle in the back was busted, covered in grease. They covered it up when they sold it. The starter is also going out. I put quite a bit of money down on it and financed the rest. The finance company to call the dealership back to see if I could get out of the deal since it had only been a few days. When I called them, they said they had a signed contract and they got really arrogant. When I called I told them if they would return this one, I would be willing to buy a new one from them. After the way they treated me, I'm not willing to purchase anything from them.

  Business response

  10/07/2021

  Hello, below is the information and some context to the issues Mr. ***** claiming. 

   

  The Complainant came in around 5:30pm on 09/09/2021. The Complainant decided he would like to submit a credit application to purchase a new vehicle. We got the Complainant approved but the bank required a lot of money down. The Complainant got unreasonably outraged that we would not accept less money down. It became clear the Complainant does not understand how bank financing works as he instantly got mad that the bank was requiring money down because of credit worthiness and he was speaking as if we were the one making him put more money down. In a normal situation we would have tried other options but no other lender would approve him so if he wanted to purchase this was his only option. The Complainant left in a rage. An hour later the Complainant came back into the store and apologized for how he acted earlier and stated he was mad because his "Ex Wife" messed up his credit and explained his life story to the salesman. I witnessed the salesman show empathy to the Complainant and he stated he really wanted to purchase something so we spent time working with the customer and finding something that would work. At 8:30 at night (an hour and 30 minutes after we close) we finally got the Complainant closed up and approved for something he could afford and signed. Which was a Used 2016 Can-Am Maverick XXC 1000R. The Complainant did not take the unit at this time because he didn't bring a trailer. A few days later he came to pick up the unit, we removed the vehicle from the showroom and took the unit outside for the Complainant to Test Drive with the salesman. Which we have both video evidence of and multiple witnesses of. Whom are willing to make statements of this matter. After this the Complainant left happy. Then 1 week later the Complainant called and he stated the finance company told him he could bring it back and that he did not want it anymore. We explained that this is not how this works he then stated there were issues his purchase. He was told to bring the unit back and that we would address his concerns. He refused this option and got violent and belligerent and that was the end of the discussion. The Complainant stated he would drop it off and make us take it back. This was his second time showing violent tendencies so he was informed that he was no longer allowed to be on store premise as I feared for the safety of my employees and it was clear that the Complainant has some issues. We did offer him to allow someone else to drop it off for him and we would still work on it. Please keep in mind the warranty can also be used at any other dealerships. The Complainant having issues with his unit is not a new issue we are faced with in this industry. New units sometimes go out the door and then come back days later needing repair. The common practice for this is for the customer to bring the unit back for repair. The Complainant has a an explosive personality and expresses this personality any time things don't go his way. Unfortunately, he had an issue with his purchase. My responsibility after the purchase is to repair his unit from issues he has not caused himself. I have no other obligation to the Complainant and we offered this to him and he has clearly declined it. 

   

  Now some explanation on used units that we explain to every customer and we have video evidence that was explained to him and multiple witness as well.

  Buying a used unit comes with risk for every party. As a dealer I take risk because I am not a foreseer of time. The units I take on trade we try and make sure it doesn't have any problems but all problems are not always evident. We warned the Complainant of this risk and the customer decided he should get an extended warranty and that would remove his risk. 

   

  1. The Complainant claims he wasn't allowed a test drive

    The above statement proves this is a false statement

   

  2. The Complainant claims transmission is slipping after 20-Miles of use

    The Complainant has provided no evidence of this being true but I will still explain how this can't be an issue. The transmission in the unit is a CVT. CVT transmissions do not shift into different gears. They are one geared thus fore it isn't possible for the transmission to slip as it is not an automatic transmission and doesn't use hydraulics to shift. 

   

  3. The Complainant claims the axles was busted in the back

    First this would be considered speculation as the Complainant has not provided any evidence this was actually broken, I have not seen pictures or the actual unit at all so as of right now I am not sure the need to defend this but I will. The Complainant did not provide a good explanation of whether this was when he picked up the unit or after his 20 miles of riding so I will discuss both of the issues with this. 

    1. If the Complainant is claiming the axle was broken before he purchased it, this would be a false statement for multiple reasons. The axles would be very noticeable if any were broken. They would either pop really loud our when the vehicle was moving it would sling around and be damaging other parts but would be very noticeable. 

    2. If the Complainant is claiming the axle was broken after his 20-mile ride then we have a different story. The Complainant could have been misusing the equipment and caused this damage which if this is true then was most likely what happened as metal doesn't snap easily and only time we ever see this is when a clear customer misuse has been involved. 

   

  4. The Complainant states the starter is going out. 

    This is a possibility of an older unit. But this has to be diagnosed by a proper technician as multiple things can cause this issue. Once again the customer has provided no evidence this happened so we have no idea what caused this.

   

  5. The Complainant states we were "arrogant" 

    I feel my employees have handled him well even with all of his outlandish language and anger he has shown.

   

  Customer Resolution

  I am declining the Complainant his resolution as we have and have been willing to do everything in our power to assist him but we will not be bullied by him to do things we don't normally do. At this point he still will not be allowed to visit our store but we will provide repair to his unit if someone else drops the vehicle off for him for safety of my employees. From this point forward we will be gathering all video and phone correspondence with the Complainant and if he continues to make false statement we will use these in the court of law showing proof of all his lies.  It is a shame that I have to defend the company for such false accusations.

• Initial Complaint

  09/03/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On 8-16-2021, I contacted the sales team to purchase a 2016 can am Spyder. They told me someone else was looking at it. I went down talked about price agreed on price. Called the next day and Paid a 500 dollar deposit that I was stole was non refundable. I was already approved for the loan threw my bank. The sales guy called and said he would take the bike back and have it ready for me that afternoon. A lil bit later he called and said there was a problem with it and needed some work done and it would be another day or two. Ok, that brings us to Wednesday when he called and told me it would be the fallowing week. I told them I wanted a refund, or I would accept in store credit, as I have a bad boy mower that they sell. I called back on Tuesday and asked about the refund. The lady told me she would have the manger call me. He called me back and said my part was in and it would’ve long for them to get the bike ready. I told him I didn’t want it and I wanted my money, I have nothing.

  Business response

  10/18/2021

  So as the complainant states, they put a non-refundable deposit on a unit. That day we took the unit into shop for safety and quality inspection so the customer can have the best experience and safest experience possible as also required by the manufacturer. While completing this inspection some concerns were found about quality. These repairs would be made under warranty at no charge to the customer. The parts were ordered and unfortunately we are still experiencing strains from COVID for parts production and shipment times. The parts were here 3-days later and the vehicle was repaired. We then called the customer and was informed he had already bought one somewhere else and no longer wished to purchase this vehicle. At this time a deposit forfeit had been executed. Our policy for deposits states no where that the customer may use this for In-store credit. The customer was aware of the policy as not being refundable and has stated in the complaint. So I am curious where the issue lies here? We lost another customer interested in this bike because of the deposit and Ochs Powersports has been able to Fulfill the customer with our end of the deal in providing a safe and quality vehicle where the customer has failed to purchase the vehicle. At this time a refund is not possible as Ochs Powersports has lost more money because of the customer backing out of their own deal. 

   

  We serve a lot of customers who understand our policy and understand. Unfortunately, this is not the case in this scenario. I think we have been very transparent about all policies with the complainant and this is the result of getting what one wants instead of following policy and signed agreements. 

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩