Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/29/2022

  Type:Product Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  We hired this business to replace storm windows on our house because they were highly rated and were told that they did storm windows all of the time. We were told that the windows would be fully custom to fit our needs (we live in a historical home). Last year, after the company measured three times, we put down a deposit. In may, the company installed the windows and they are not what we ordered or what we were told we would be receiving. The meeting rails on the windows sit 2 inches lower than they should and are not custom at all. When we alerted the installer, they said they didn't look right but installing the incorrect windows after stating that they would have a salesperson come out to look. The salesman came out and said that the windows don't look correct but "aren't wrong" because they only come in a 50/50 split, which are not custom. After speaking to the owner, the salesman then said "it is what it is with those windows." We reached out to the company that makes the windows and they confirmed that the windows are fully customizable but would have to be ordered that way. We reached out to STL Windows and Doors to see what was ordered and were given documentation that does not include measurements or specifications on how they were ordered. We asked again and haven't received anything. We also had another window company who deals with that window provider come out and they agreed that the windows are incorrect, look horrible, and should have been custom ordered. We have reached out to the company with solutions but their only response is to give us a small discount on the full price instead of fixing the problem. The company they use is no longer making storm windows, so we are told we're just stuck with these incorrect windows. Please see attached for supporting documentation, photos, and what we've received from the window makers. At this point, we would like a lien release and a refund so that we can find another company to fix the issue.

  

  Business Response

  Date: 06/30/2022

  Regarding the production and installation of this project.

  This job was sold to the Faucetts by a salesperson who was in the process of learning the industry. When that happens, mistakes are sometimes made. When I went to gather the final measurements to place the order, nothing was stated to me from the customer or the sales rep about the meeting rails needing to be customized. The windows that exist in the home are 50/50 splits. We ordered custom sized storm windows that were 50/50 splits. We proceeded to install the windows. By the time I was made aware of the customers dissatisfaction, the project was completed. Also, by the time the project completed, our window and door supplier had discontinued the production of all storm windows. This leaves my hands tied. I have tried to get our supplier to make a special exception and re make the windows with no success. A discount was offered because of the miscommunication on the front end. A miscommunication that happened on both sides, as, we were never told by the customer that this was a deal breaking detail. At this point, the material was purchased, the install labor was paid out, the admin work to produce this job has been paid out. Our discount was almost all of the profit that the company would have made. The job will be completed at "cost" after the remaining balance (less the discount) has been paid. We certainly understand the frustration that the customer is feeling, however, we feel that the offered discount is a reasonable way to show our understanding. To summarize, we have made every reasonable effort to work through this situation. I hope that you agree. 

   

  Thank you

  **** ***********

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/01/2022

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  
  We disagree and reject the response from the business. Here’s why:
  The business owner states: This job was sold to the Faucetts by a salesperson who was in the process of learning the industry. When that happens, mistakes are sometimes made. When I went to gather the final measurements to place the order, nothing was stated to me from the customer or the sales rep about the meeting rails needing to be customized.
  Our response: The salesperson in question told us that he was with this particular company for several years, which does not equate to someone who “was just learning the industry.” Even if he was still learning the business, the owner should have made sure that everything was correct; especially for this “large of a job” as quoted by the original salesperson multiple times. Ensuring that all information is correct prior to ordering is the responsibility of the company who are “experts” in their field (see attachment showing the years they’ve been in service and their expertise). Also included are screenshots that show that this company only “recruits the best skilled and dedicated men and women” to be on their team. That contradicts hiring someone who is “just learning the industry.” We understand that mistakes can be made, but at this point, blame has been placed on the salesperson who is no longer with the company and has now been shifted to us, the customer, for not confirming with the owner when the final measurements were taken that these windows were to be customized. As consumers, we worked directly with our point of contact at the company who had been to our house on several occasions prior. The salesperson said that he was gathering the necessary information and measurements to order the windows, with the owner coming out only to do final measurements. At no point did the owner ask for confirmation on anything, especially given that the salesperson was someone who was still learning the business (which again, was not what we were told originally). The responsibility to communicate expectations at that point is between the salesperson and the owner, since we had already communicated several times what our expectations were with the salesperson. This is a miscommunication between those involved at the company, as we were clear with the salesperson representing *** ******* *** *****. While it is true that we did not confirm that these would be custom with the owner of the company, we had assumed that it had been done so by the salesperson hired to represent them and submit our fully custom order. Moreover, in one of the responses received by another person representing the company (see previous attachments), it was stated that the original salesperson may have been spreading misinformation and that the company would have handled the situation sooner had they known. That shows that they may have known that false information was being spread and after learning about it, did not contact us to confirm the order prior to installation – that is the fault and responsibility of the company, not us, as we assumed everything was good to go as expected (thinking our salesperson was still employed with the company).
  
  The business owner states: The windows that exist in the home are 50/50 splits. We ordered custom sized storm windows that were 50/50 splits. We proceeded to install the windows.
  Our response: The custom historic windows that we have in our home are not 50/50 splits. In fact, the other salesperson who was alerted to the issue at the time of install, confirmed that our windows are not 50/50 splits – which is what led to this entire issue as they do not match as promised originally. The second salesperson even stated that the closest window is the kitchen window at ¼ an inch difference, while most of our other windows are anywhere from 1 and 3/8 inches to 2 full inches in difference (re: the individual sashes). As you can see in the attached photos, we have measured the windows and can confirm that windows that exist in our home, and were there at the time of measuring (all three times to be clear), are indeed, not 50/50 splits. We have even confirmed with another window company that they are indeed custom and are not 50/50 splits. Furthermore, it is false advertising to state that the storm windows would be made to exact specifications if they only come in 50/50 splits or would only be ordered as such; windows are not custom sized if they do not meet the exact specifications. What’s the difference, then, between ordering from a chain store and getting the windows cut to the overall size? It would make sense if the windows ordered from a chain store were 50/50 split, but not in this case. Similarly, we were told by the second salesperson that these only come in a 50/50 split and that is what makes them custom, but that is not what we were told originally nor what is printed in the brochure (see original attachments). Why does the brochure not state that they are only in certain splits? While that brochure is not made by STL Windows and Doors, it is what is handed out to potential customers as a “platinum dealer” who only works with that company – so why advertise that to us if you cannot order it as such? To be explicit: we were told the entire window would be custom and would match our existing interior windows exactly and were shown/given the brochure stating that they would meet our exact specifications. To clarify whether or not the windows can be custom ordered, we contacted the window supplier directly and they confirmed that they can be made custom, but have to be ordered that way. We also confirmed with another window company that they must be ordered that way, and cost an additional fee per window to do so – something STL Windows and Doors has never mentioned. That makes the one response from STL Windows and Doors (see prior attachments) all too clear to us, as it states that the mistakes made or misinformation given by the first salesperson were “not to cut corners on costs at all.” Therefore, we have not only confirmed that these windows can be made custom, something that STL Windows and Doors has repeatedly told us is not the case, but we have also confirmed that they just have to be submitted that way upon ordering. The fact that it costs an additional amount of money to order custom sashes was never communicated to us, and when we asked for an itemized receipt to see what we were being charged for, we were not given one. Additionally, our contract seems intentionally vague and does not have the measurements or specifications included. The other window company we have spoken with has stated that information should have been included in the contract so that both parties were in agreement when signing; something this company failed to do which could have alleviated the miscommunication on their end. We have also asked for what was submitted to the window supplier, with measurements, to see if this was an error in ordering (please see the prior attachments). That information has also not been given to us, which makes it seem like STL Windows and Doors are dodging any attempt to be transparent. I assure you that our historic windows are not 50/50 split – which is the primary reason we found a company that said they did storm window installations “all of the time” and could match our windows exactly (which was also apparently false as indicated in previous documentation). If we would have been told that it would not be an exact match from the outset, we would have found another company entirely.
  
  The business owner states: By the time I was made aware of the customers dissatisfaction, the project was completed.
  Our response: As noted in previous communication (see prior attachments) were alerted our installer on the second day of installation as soon as she arrived (around 10 a.m.). She said that she agreed that it did not look right and that she would reach out to the salesperson. She also stated at that time that she wasn’t sure if it was a sales error or ordering error and claimed to be “just the installer”, taking no responsibility for the windows being incorrect (she even thanked us for not yelling at her on the final day of installation as she handed us the bill, an action that appears to admit that this was a mistake on the company’s end). We were patient and waited for the salesperson to arrive, but the installer kept working knowing that we were questioning how the windows looked and had indicated that they were not correct. At that point, there were only 8 out of 28 windows installed. The fact that this was not communicated to the owner immediately is a miscommunication, again, on the part of the company and no fault of ours. We alerted the person in our home, who should have then alerted the owner, but instead just alerted the salesperson. The salesperson did not arrive to our house until the third day, and upon arrival, said that the windows did not look right but were “not wrong.” After speaking with that salesperson, he proceeded to tell us that the windows were not available in custom sizes for the sashes and only come in 50/50, 60/40, or 33/33/33 splits. That’s not what the brochure says that we were given originally (see prior attachments) and not what we were told by the original salesperson. As stated above, it is also inaccurate based on the information given to us directly by the supplier. We did indicate to the salesperson that had we known that, we would have never moved forward with the project as it would not have looked correct and would have been unacceptable; we would have found a different company to work with that could make them fully custom. At that point, the salesperson said he would reach out to the window supplier and see what could be done. We waited almost a week and after hearing nothing, called to check and see what the status was. The salesperson admitted that he did not speak with the window supplier but instead spoke to the owner of the company and that the determination was “it is what it is with those windows.” From there, we moved the conversation to email so that all correspondence could be documented (see prior attachments).
  To fix these windows at this point, they will likely have to be removed so that new ones can be installed. The irony here is that the windows are installed in such a way that this will be labor intensive for any company to do, a fact that I am sure STL Windows and Doors is aware of. Our old storm windows were old and much easier to remove. Therefore, this fix will not only cost us significantly more than we had originally planned, but it could have been avoided had the installer stopped when we originally brought up our dissatisfaction. We feel as though we were intentionally lied to at the outset so that we would go with this company for this “large job” as indicated by both the original salesperson and the installer, and when we found that this job was not up to our initially expressed expectations, the company tried to pull the wool over our eyes so that they would still receive payment.
  
  The business owner states: Also, by the time the project completed, our window and door supplier had discontinued the production of all storm windows. This leaves my hands tied. I have tried to get our supplier to make a special exception and re make the windows with no success.
  Our response: The supplier discontinuing the production of storm windows, while unfortunate, is no fault of ours, but affects us a great deal. In fact, we’ve recommended reaching out to another supplier since these windows are not acceptable and we have not received a response as to why that would not be a viable solution. Our assumption is that it would cost STL Windows and Doors too much money to fix at this point. While we understand that the supplier no longer producing storm windows makes it harder to rectify the situation with that particular supplier, no evidence has been given that this company has tried to find an alternative solution outside of that. However, we have provided several in our previous communication (again see prior attachments). We have done all of the legwork to find a suitable solution, and have been both responsive and communicative. Our guess is that the company is not willing to foot the bill for their mistakes or the misinformation represented to us originally, which would be their obligation and not ours. They would rather try to find ways around having to pay for this error, placing blame rather than taking responsibility. This is evidenced by the research that we have done, illuminating several inaccuracies in what we have been told. Specifically, among other examples, it is overtly demonstrated by the fact that the windows can be ordered as custom with that exact window supplier when we were repeatedly told that they only came in certain splits.  The truth is that the company has not taken responsibility for any of this and has continued trying to skirt around the fact that this a major issue for us, even stating that they are sorry that the windows are not “aesthetically pleasing” and do not meet our “standards”. This proves that they have not only missed the issue entirely, they are acting as if we are being unreasonable for rejecting windows that are not custom as assured when we agreed to this project. After explaining this to the company, we received no response until the complaint was submitted here at the BBB.
  
  The business owner states: A discount was offered because of the miscommunication on the front end. A miscommunication that happened on both sides, as, we were never told by the customer that this was a deal breaking detail. At this point, the material was purchased, the install labor was paid out, the admin work to produce this job has been paid out. Our discount was almost all of the profit that the company would have made. The job will be completed at "cost" after the remaining balance (less the discount) has been paid.
  Our response: It should be clarified that the miscommunication did not happen on both sides. We confirmed several times with the original salesman on what our expectations were and are not at fault if that salesperson did not relay that information to the necessary parties at the company. That person was a representative of the company and therefore the company assumes responsibility for their actions. It was relayed to the salesperson, our direct point of contact, that we wanted custom windows that matched exactly. Furthermore, we indicated that we wanted all white windows and did not receive that either; the windows we received have black frame liners that are visible from both the outside and inside. This is a fact we were willing to overlook had the windows been ordered and installed correctly otherwise. It should have been understood that not delivering the work as promised would be a dealbreaker for most consumers, and should not have needed to be communicated as such. In addition, we were told in one of the emails that the discount was all of the profit (see original attachments) and are now being told that it is almost all of the profit. We were also told that this is not about the money for this company because they have no crazy overhead, so the discount being offered does not seem adequate if money is not a factor to them. Money is important to us seeing as how we now have to find a company to fix the mess this company has caused, which will undoubtedly be more money and is the reason we are seeking the resolution we are.
  It must also be noted that we have a broken sash on one of the windows that was installed and were told the replacement part was being ordered. In none of this communication has the company mentioned fixing that or what the status of that might be. We brought it up in our last communication, but it seems that it will not be serviced until the money is paid – but the money is not generally paid until the job is fully completed, which it has not been given that one of the sashes remains broken. Additionally, we asked the installer on the last day if we could change one of the screens as it did not look right and took away from the aesthetics of our custom historic windows. We wanted to change it to a piece of glass instead. She hesitantly said that it would be on them to service, but that if we just wanted to remove it, we could go up there and punch it out and remove the screws ourselves. That in itself should prove what type of customer service this company has.  Which, again, is in direct contradiction to their website which claims that their “priority is to exceed industry standards and customer expectations.” Moreover, it states that they guarantee to treat you like family with respect and close personal attention, and we have not received that level of service at all. Lastly, they claim to be an honest company but we have clearly been given false information on more than one occasion.
  
  The business owner states: We certainly understand the frustration that the customer is feeling, however, we feel that the offered discount is a reasonable way to show our understanding. To summarize, we have made every reasonable effort to work through this situation. I hope that you agree. 
  
  Our response: We do not feel the company understands our frustration at all, as evidenced by the communication previously attached. Every effort has been made on our end to rectify this situation, as previously outlined, but has been met with “it is what it is” by the company on several occasions. The discount was not a reasonable way to show understanding when we now have to find another company to come in and fix these windows, which will cost us even more time and money. Not to mention the fact that the aesthetics in our historic home are now compromised. While that may not be a big deal to some, that is one of the reasons we were originally explicit in what we expected prior to installation. We feel as if this company expects us to just pay the bill and deal with the error. We even asked in one of our emails what the solution would have been if the window supplier was still making windows, and that question was not answered. Subsequently, we feel as though we have been purposefully deceived and redirected. We do not feel the company has made any reasonable efforts other than offering us a discount, as evidenced by the fact that we have asked for other solutions and have yet to receive any. We communicated that the discount would not suffice and no other solutions have been suggested by the company since. Below is a timeline of the project and correspondence. As you can see, the initial effort to find a solution was ours as the salesperson never called us to let us know what our options were after installation. From there, when we found out that he had not called the window supplier as promised, we moved things to email to document. We have indicated emails sent, including all of our solutions presented, and responses received below.  

  
  Timeline:
  November 17, 2021 – Contract finalized with original salesperson after measurements were taken three times, once by the owner of the company.
  April 6 – Reached out to the company to check on the status of installation, as it was originally scheduled for April.
  April 7 – Received an email stating that they were reaching out to the window supplier to get an accurate ship date to schedule installation.
  April 18 – We respond and thank them for reaching out to the window supplier and letting them know that we look forward to hearing from them.
  April 28 – We receive a response that they finally heard back and when we should expect our installation to take place.
  May 30 – Installation Day 1: We realized that the windows were not correct after the installer left for the day.
  May 31 – Installation Day 2: Issue with the windows being incorrect reported to installer immediately when she arrived around 10 a.m.
  June 1st – Installation Day 3: The salesperson (different from the original person we were working with) arrives to see what the issue is and agrees to contact the window supplier to see what can be done.
  June 7 - We call the company because we had not heard from the salesperson regarding reaching out to the window supplier.
  June 7 – The salesperson returned our call and stated that he talked to the owner and not the window supplier and that it “is what it is with those windows.”
  June 8 – We emailed our point of contact for figuring out the status of the project to document the issue and alert her to our concerns.
  June 9 – We received a response stating that she received the email and was looking into it. She asked if she could get back to us on June 10th.
  June 9 – We agreed and let her know that was acceptable.
  June 10 – We received a response offering us a discount after apologizing for the misinformation on behalf of the salesperson and informing us that as a family company, it isn’t about the money for them. This email also stated that this person had reached out to the window supplier “higher-ups” and that nothing could be done.
  June 14 – After doing initial research, we reached out to gather information on what was submitted to the window supplier.
  June 20 – We sent a follow-up to the June 14 email because we had not received a response.
  June 21 – We received a response stating that we would be transferred to the office manager who was out on maternity leave.
  June 21 – We received an email from the office manager asking for what information we needed.
  June 21 – We responded almost immediately reiterating what documentation we were requesting.
  June 22 – We received a response with a copy of our contract, and the spec sheet that we already had a copy of, but we did not receive the measurements or what was sent to the supplier to complete the order. We were also asked about the remaining balance on the invoice.
  June 23 – We responded with our acknowledgement of what was received and why a discount would not be suitable for this situation. We outlined several possible solutions after spending adequate time searching for resolutions that would suit both parties.
  June 29 – Having not had a response, we submitted the BBB complaint.
  June 29 – We later receive an email from the office manager stating that she got with the owner of the company and he was reaching out to the window supplier.
  June 30 – We received the response from the owner via the BBB.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** *******

  

  Business Response

  Date: 07/05/2022

  We are very sorry that you feel the way you do about the job, but, more so how you feel about us personally. We are a very hard working and honest group. If there was something more that we could for you, we would. We have exhausted all reasonable options to get this project completed to your satisfaction. We simply can not get the materials required to do so.  

   

  Sincerely

  **** ***********

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/07/2022

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  
  

  ****,
  Thank you for the apologies, but please know that this is not personally about you or others at your company. This is about a job that we hired your company to do that was not completed as outlined in our initial agreement; therefore, not meeting our expectations or fulfilling the arrangement we had with your company. When we brought up the issue, we were told inaccurate information, told that it “is what it is,” and forced to investigate solutions and reach out to you consistently to find a solution. At this point, it sounds like there is nothing you can do to rectify this situation, so please kindly give us our lien release and we will move on to another company who can install fully custom windows as was originally promised. We are willing to forfeit the credit to be done with this and to find someone who can fix it. If that is still unsuitable for you, we are happy to pursue other avenues.   
  Thank you,
  *** ********** *** *******