ComplaintsforGTA Auto Service

• Initial Complaint

  06/05/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  i brought my truck there because the check engine light was on they looked at it said it was cylinder 5 misfire had to take of valve cover to look at lifters said they were bad have to replace them took all apart put in new parts put in back together still check engine light on they said cant fixit the bill 2000 plus already paid 500 for parts they told me it was camshaft so i paid the balance i brought it to another shop was told they could have put in new camshaft when they had it all a part gta did not tell me that so now it has to takin all apart again it is a 2011 pickup with 101kmiles on i do not want to just throw it away thank you ****

  Business response

  06/09/2023

  **** was a first-time customer with no history for us to reference maintenance history though-out the life of truck. He initially stated that he had tried replacing various components at other shops, like spark plugs and a coil with no effect on the drivability of the truck. He brought his truck to us on 11/23/2022 to diagnose the misfire. (note* customer stated that the misfire was ongoing for some months, i believe he said 6) When it arrived there was a very significant misfire observed both at idle and cruising speeds. Understanding the common failure points of these engines our initial diagnosis required removal of the valve cover gasket to inspect the rocker arms for movement during engine rotation. during that inspection, it was observed that there was no articulation of the rocker arm on cylinder number 5. This can be caused for 3 reasons;
  1. A failed lifter (most common failure)
  This component sits on the camshaft and moves up and down based on the camshaft lobe position. It transfers that up and down motion to a pushrod which then articulates the rocker arm that opens each corresponding valve. this is what was visually inspected during initial diagnosis. no movement was observed. it should be noted that this particular engine will shut down 4 cylinders under certain driving conditions as a fuel management system. the computer will energize 4 of the MDS solenoids that allow the lifters to stay COLLAPSED, meaning no articulation of the rocker arms.  What happens to these lifters (which we see similarly on chevy trucks which utilize a similar fuel management strategy) is that over time and generally, but not limited to, poor maintenance schedules, these lifters can become stuck in the collapsed position and not allow camshaft lobe rotation to be transferred to the rocker arm. 
  2. A worn camshaft (second most common failure)
  this is only accomplished by removing the cylinder head to visually inspect for signs of overheating, scoring, or other general wear symptoms. No such conditions were observed after disassembly. The camshaft was clean and smooth on the lobes and had no signs of wear which suggested that the sole fault was within the lifter assembly. 
  3. A stuck MDS solenoid. (Least common failure) 
  the solenoid which provides oil to corresponding lifter to deactivate. 
  This was tested using a diagnostic tool which manually engages the solenoid which we can verify operation via audible clicking, listened to via a stethoscope. The solenoid was indeed operating at the time of diagnosis. 
  After the diagnosis it was communicated to **** the findings. A failed lifter, necessitating the need for replacement along with the corresponding gaskets, hardware and typical fluids. **** agreed to the repair and we proceeded with the job. 
  Upon completion of the job and verification of the repair’s success, there was a slight misfire still present which was unacceptable and necessitated the disassembly of the valve cover to inspect for integrity of repaired components. we wanted to make sure the rocker arm was still moving with camshaft rotation. proper operation of replaced component was verified. Rocker arm was articulating, unlike how the truck arrived initially. At this time, we reassembled the valve cover and began further diagnostics at no additional cost to the customer to attempt to understand what was causing this much less significant misfire. Further testing confirmed that there was good compression, good spark, and good fuel supply. Unfortunately, this left a mechanical fault, which was ultimately traced to the camshaft lobe which must have worn down from prolonged engine operation with a collapsed lifter. (Lifter was no longer rolling on camshaft lobe, but bouncing on the lobe due to low resistance from being collapsed) 
  As a good faith attempt at ruling out low chance possibilities, we removed the intake manifold and replaced the MDS solenoid to eliminate the possibility of a leaking solenoid causing partial lifter deactivation. This was replaced with no labor charge and the part at cost. This had no effect on performance. 
  At this time, we communicated with **** about the situation and he seemed to accept the reality that there was deeper damage than previously thought. We informed him that camshaft replacement is generally beyond the scope of the type of repairs we do in this shop, and referred him elsewhere for full engine rebuilding.  He picked up the truck on 1/24/2023.  With no further communication until April 2023.
  ----------3 months later and Customer interaction via text------
  ******, **** • 4/20/2023 9:44:04 AM
   “yes i would like to get my truck fixed  mike took it all apart said the camshaft dont go bad  so it was torn  down was already close to the camshaft should have been changed not just give me your money go away ok get it!!”
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  While this is true that it would make sense to do the camshaft while the engine is apart, there are two problems with this line of thought. First, it assumes that we knew at the time of disassembly that the camshaft was bad, and it also assumes that the engine was disassembled to the point of easy camshaft replacement.  This is not the case. the charge to remove the one cylinder head was 8 hours. To replace the camshaft is 14 hours of labor based on the labor guide as it requires the removal of the other cylinder head as well as the oil pan and timing cover. Much more work than just doing as a natural course of action as suggested by the customers text message.
  As a general point of reflection with a 30k foot view of the whole situation, we understand the customers frustration with not having the result they thought they would have. We ALSO feel a level of frustration of not meeting the expectations of a customer. We exist to provide a service that people will want to tell their friends and families about. We pride ourselves on integrity, honesty and expediency. Although the result was not ideal in the case of ****s truck, we only operated in good faith, evidenced by our price modification of the final bill. We discounted the parts pricing down from their regular markup in an effort to soften the hit of an undesirable outcome. There is unfortunately no further remedy that which we can provide to make this situation better for ****. We cannot get into rebuilding an engine, as it is not within our abilities to devote such time to a variable heavy (could find out the timing chains are stretched, or that the camshaft bearings need to be replaced which would require engine removal) process, while still continuing to service our other customers’ needs of prompt, quality service.
  Attached is a copy of the text conversation from 4/19/2023 that **** initiated.
  Feel free to contact us for further details or questions. ###-###-####. 

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