Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/10/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Contacted company about product/part wanted. Said they could do it. Paid them $5000 up front. Hard to contact after that. After finally getting ahold of them many months later, they reassured they could make my product. More months passed with hardly any contact. Then told them I was going to pursue legal action. It had been about a year with no product for the money. Was told I would not receive a refund on a custom product and that I could take legal action but it would cost me more even if I did win. I never recieved my custom order, not a single item. The custom order was never built, the money was taken and no product to show for it.

  Business Response

  Date: 06/20/2024

  *** ****** paid a downpayment of $5000 towards the parts and work necessary to put a manual transmission from a 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP 6-speed into a 1988 Pontiac Fiero, using the engine from a late 90's to 2000's Pontiac Grand Prix 3800 Supercharged.  In order to make all this work, the parts have to be custom-made.  *** ****** was informed of this before, during, and after he placed the order.  Custom parts means a couple things.  1) They are custom-made for your exact setup, which in his case is a hodge-podge mix of parts from atleast 3 different vehicle platforms.  2) Custom parts like this take time to make.  The newest part of this build is the transmission, and it's getting old enough that the parts necessary to make this build work, even the ones that were once available from GM are now discontinued, which means more parts have to be custom-made, like the billet shifter I mentioned in the e-mail to *** ****** before he even placed the order.  None of this was a surprise as this was e-mailed to *** ****** before the order was made, and then even the invoice of the order itself references this e-mail as paper-trail/communication record of this order.  Because of the nature of this order, it is non-refundable.  This again is public info as we post on our policy page of the website that customer orders are non-refundable, and have marked custom order all over the papertrail leading up to and including this order.  Even the item in the invoice itself was named "Custom Order".  I'm not sure how much more clear we can be about this on the website.

  It is true that we have not shipped anything to *** ******.  The plan was to ship all of the parts to *** ****** once they were all completed.  I did mention above that the payment made was a downpayment.  This was not the final parts for the parts necessary for this project.  The e-mail I referred to earlier also mentioned that the pricing was open-ended, and would cost more, but he could use the price of the N-body 6-speed manual conversion we offer on the website as price reference to give him some idea.  So the plan was to ship him all the parts once everything is paid for and complete, so that all the shipping could be handled on one shipment of one pallet of parts.  If *** ****** would like us to ship him one piece at a time.  I'm perfectly willing to do this, it will just cost quite a bit more in shipping

   

   

  Here is the link for that item on our website..

  6 speed Manual Transmission Conversion for Grand Am/N-body Vehicles - Milzy Motorsports

   

  and here is the e-mail I reference earlier regarding the conversation preceding *** ******'s order ... 

   

   

  ------------------------------------------------------------

  **** ****** <**************************> Fri, Jan 27, 2023, 3:38?PM
  
  
  
  to *****
  
  
  
  
  
  
  So as per our discussion on the phone earlier, you're interested in doing a bigger more modern supercharger on the car (perhaps the M122), and you also want to do the F40 6-speed.
  
  
  We currently sell the F40 swap into the N-body platform, which is completely different, but will give you a ball-park idea on pricing ... 6 speed Manual Transmission Conversion for Grand Am/N-body Vehicles - Milzy Motorsports
  
  
  As discussed on the phone, we're developing a custom billet shifter for the swap, which is not included in that current price (just a stock G6 one).  You'll also need the special oil filter adapter bracket to work with the 3800 engine.
  
  
  Anyways, the plan is to get a deposit of $5000.00 (via money order) from you to go towards the transmission project, so we can get to work on that for now.  So let me know when you send that certified mail so I can keep an eye out for it.
  
  
  My address here is:
  
  
  **** ******
  Milzy Motorsports
  ** ****** *** **** ********** ** *****
  
  Just make the money order out to Milzy Motorsports.
  
  
  Once I receive the money order, I will deposit it, and let you know it has arrived.  The money order will have to clear with the bank before we can spend it, but I'll keep you posted on that too.
  
  
  If you have any more questions or concerns, just let me know.
  
  
  **** ******
  Milzy Motorsports
  ************

  -----------------------------------------------------------

   

  Let me know if you need anything else.

   

  **** ******

  Milzy Motorsports

   

   

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/21/2024

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  When I had asked you what you currently had based on what I have already paid ($5000), you had not agreed to send me a transmission or the shift linkage kit to adapt which neither of those is even close to $5000 in cost individually. I am willing to settle right now for either the transmission or the shift linkage kit. Which one do you have right now to send me because it has been well over a year with no products whatsoever and with you avoiding in my attempts to reach you and get an answer from you other. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

  Business Response

  Date: 07/22/2024

  I have one single e-mail from *** ****** (since my last e-mail to him), which went unresponded to, and that was from February.  I have no other record of him attempting any contact since then through phone, my website, or e-mail, aside from the complaints he is now raising.  I was not and am not actively avoiding his attempts to contact me.

  
  

  As for his offer, I'd have to look into it to consider it, but I am curious what he's referring to when he says "shift linkage kit", so I can more thoroughly consider his offer.

  
  

  **** ******, owner

  MIlzy Motorsports

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/22/2024

  Actively avoiding my attempts in a response is an understatement. There is no reason that a business should take more than 1.5 years to deliver on a product that through my entire trials of trying to resolve this Milzy Motorsports has shown to be available on their website with not a single mention of any delays or unavailability. As well the original conversation (which was by phone) I made clear I wanted done before the spring of 2024 to have the car assembled in time before the race season which was stated to be no problem. The one time I got a quick response was when I sent a text directly to *** ****y that I was contacting my lawyer because I was getting no response by email for more than a month a year after the "down payment" was made, which he called me immediately and told me he was still waiting for the machine shop he uses to manufacture some for him because they kept pushing his order back to do bigger orders for the military contracts they had and for me to be patient. As for the linkage system, I'm referring to the one he has on his website for $6099.99. Thats why I paid $5000 and was going to pay the remaining balance for the rest of it. As well as other people have mentioned on reviews on Google about Milzy doing the same thing to them. Offering a product, taking payment, and the customer never receiving the product for their custom order or a refund. 

  Business Response

  Date: 08/08/2024

  Actively avoiding my attempts in a response is an understatement. There is no reason that a business should take more than 1.5 years to deliver on a product that through my entire trials of trying to resolve this Milzy Motorsports has shown to be available on their website with not a single mention of any delays or unavailability. As well the original conversation (which was by phone) I made clear I wanted done before the spring of 2024 to have the car assembled in time before the race season which was stated to be no problem. The one time I got a quick response was when I sent a text directly to *** ***** that I was contacting my lawyer because I was getting no response by email for more than a month a year after the "down payment" was made, which he called me immediately and told me he was still waiting for the machine shop he uses to manufacture some for him because they kept pushing his order back to do bigger orders for the military contracts they had and for me to be patient. As for the linkage system, I'm referring to the one he has on his website for $6099.99. Thats why I paid $5000 and was going to pay the remaining balance for the rest of it. As well as other people have mentioned on reviews on Google about Milzy doing the same thing to them. Offering a product, taking payment, and the customer never receiving the product for their custom order or a refund.

   

  I'm not sure what to reply to here.  As I said before, I said I was not and am not actively trying to avoid the customer.  This customer says this was an understatement, when in fact it's an anti-statement.  it's literally the opposite of what I said.  He also doesn't even know my name even though I just said it in the last response and all the other responses and e-mails before that.  He's not listening/not paying attention.  Just like my last response had one question in it, asking him to define what he meant by "shift linkage kit".  He keeps replying to my last response, but not answering this one question.  I said this in that last BBB response regarding this issue ...

  "As for his offer, I'd have to look into it to consider it, but I am curious what he's referring to when he
  says "shift linkage kit", so I can more thoroughly consider his offer."

  He now says that a Transmission Conversion kit is what he meant by "shift linkage kit".  Those are not the same thing.  Words matter.

  Also the transmission kit in question isn't for a Fiero, or even for the 3800 engine.  The F40 came attached to a 60 degree V6, so the option to use the factory 60degree V6 clutch and flywheel doesn't exist as they have different bolt patterns and thrust values, so now you have to use a special/custom flywheel, and the power for the 3800 supercharged engine is more than a 3400 engine, so you need the better Stage 3+ clutch as well, which has to be a special version matching the 3800 engine/flywheel with the correct thrust values, and also made to fit the F40 transmission.  You also need other parts like a special oil filter adapter made for the F40 swap because the centerline of the output shaft of the F40 6-speed is closer to the crankshaft centerline, so there are clearance problems with the oil filter adapter housing.  Then you also have the billet shifter mentioned in the previous e-mails.  Then you have the axle differences between the 99-05 Grand Am and the Fiero, made to work for the 2006 F40 manual transmission.  Then the mounts are also different between those two vehicles as well, so it needs custom mounts for the F40 to work in the FIero.  Then it needs a custom intermediate shaft mount/intermediate shaft/bearing to work with both the 3800 engine and the F40 transmission, and also tie these into the mounts as they would need to use the same bolt holes on the engine to be able to bolt up.  Then it also needs custom/special shift cables because the Fiero while it uses fwd parts mounted in a rwd configuration, they need to be extended for the different mounting configuration rearward of the driver as opposed to forward of it.  I'm sure this isn't everything, there's still stuff left to discuss like shift cable brackets for the custom cables, master cylinder, lines, etc.  My point is this requires a lot of custom parts.  I'd have to come up with a full list of everything needed, and not everything is going to have a concrete price I can quote today because many of these parts don't exist yet, and therefore their value has not yet been determined.

  I'm now out of time, but the next step would seem to be making the list of the remaining parts needed, with some sort of itemized price estimate.  I'm reluctant to do so because spending hours putting something like this together needs to actually lead to the customer making another payment towards all these parts, otherwise it's a complete waste of time.  It's also very difficult to estimate pricing on parts that do not currently exist without rounding up and without being upside-down on the pricing.

  So I guess I'm asking on here.  If I make this list, will the customer agree to pay another payment for the parts in question?

   

  **** ******, owner

  Milzy Motorsports LLC

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/08/2024

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I have proof that *** ***** has NOT responded to me in email format which I added the attachment of because I have tried to make clear the item and I am after and he has not responded to me one time that he would comply. He has $5000 of my money and will not even respond to my emails of trying to accept even the one main item of my purchase (F40 Transmission) and just settling for other items that he currently has listed on his website to end this game of foolishness which leads me to believe he has nothing to offer me, not a refund or a product in hopes that I will just give up.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

• Initial Complaint

  Date:04/13/2023

  Type:Delivery Issues
  Status:

  UnresolvedMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  My order was placed on 02/22/2022. I ordered Stage 3 ported heads and a ported intake for an engine I was and am still hoping to build, spending $2106.07 total. The lead time on the website showed 2-3 months. I still have not received my parts. I have contacted the company a few times. The last communication I received was in October of 2022, when I asked about a refund, I was told that progress was being made and he would talk to me soon. They had some parts shortages (no specific examples told to me were of parts for me). The company policy is that the heads are custom and non-refundable. I understand that policy if people are trying to return them, or don't want to wait for the lead time, but I don't feel it is acceptable to take people's money for parts that they cannot make in a timely manner. I just looked on the website today (4/13/2023) and the products I ordered are still listed with the same lead time. I just want to make sure that others don't give this company their money and end up in the same position on that I am currently in. I have bought many other niche racing parts before and after I ordered these and have not had any similar issues with other businesses.

  Business Response

  Date: 05/05/2023

  Mr. ********,

  I do apologize for your wait on these parts.  This is not our standard procedure to take this amount of time on something like this.  These 3800 Cylinder Heads are problematic to do for a couple of reasons.  Firstly, 80% of the cylinder heads available as cores are cracked.  We refuse to use cracked heads for our cores because that would then make us liable for any problem that arose from this in the future.  We also have to do these heads in batches to keep them cost effective.  So we bring in two skids of heads to take to the machineshop for machining, and of those 20 sets of heads we bring in, only 4 sets are good enough to get done.  Lately (since covid), the issue has also been with some of the components of the cylinder heads going out of stock.  valvesprings, and our custom stainless valves are some of the parts we've had supply problems with due to covid and the aftermath that followed.

  I'm not sure if you are still in need of the cylinder heads or not.  As I have told you before, these are an item clearly labeled as non-refundable, however, given the circumstances, and your patience, I will look into the possibility of treating this order like a refundable item on our website, and will be in touch with you with my findings.

  **** ******, owner

  Milzy Motorsports LLC

  Customer Answer

  Date: 05/08/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: There is no resolution made.  The owner of the company only says that he is looking into refunding the money for the purchase which was made on February 22th, 2022.  I still have not received the product I purchased as of today, 14 months later.  The owner of the company is the person who replied to my complaint.  I don't understand why he has to "look into it" to see if he can refund the money.  I will accept his response if he is willing to refund the money for the purchase which I never received. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ********

  Business Response

  Date: 05/23/2023

  Well officially, this item is deemed as non-refundable, and was stated as such on the website in both the product description of the item itself and the Policy page of the website.  That being said, given the circumstances I was considering making an exception on this policy in this case, and the "looking into" I was referring to was about looking into the logistics of the whole thing.  What's done, what's not done, what's the out of pocket cost, how much of this cost is recoverable, which would help determine if we could reduce the standard restocking fee or not, and then the logistics of how soon a refund would be possible, seeing that the money in question was already spent on the items in question.  As much as you may not like the "looking into" part of the process, it is nonetheless a necessary part of the refund process, but if you don't accept that plan, I guess we're kind of stuck.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 05/25/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: Only because I was told that the complaint will be closed if I accept your response.  I was hoping to keep the dialog open and come to an agreement.   I would be interested to hear how far along the work is on the heads and intake.  You said back in October 2022 that there were parts shortages causing issues.  I was never given any updates other than work is being done.  Is the porting work complete and you are waiting on valves, springs, etc?  If that is the case, I would be interested in getting the bare ported heads and the intake from you if that is an option. 

   Your website (still) states that these are typically completed in 2-3 months.  I have already waited for 15 months and still have not been given an update on what has been completed and what still needs done and when I could expect them to be completed.  I have not heard anything from you since October of 2022, until I filed this complaint.  A refund should be given if the product can't be produced in a reasonable amount of time.  I am sure that most people would agree that we are well beyond a reasonable wait time. 

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ********

• Initial Complaint

  Date:02/21/2023

  Type:Delivery Issues
  Status:

  ResolvedMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  My first transaction with Miltzy Motorsports began in December of 2017, however I hope that some leniency will be granted to allow an over 5 year old ongoing and unresolved interaction with this business to be considered within the 12 month window that the BBB requires. I am creating this entry to help others to make an informed decision when dealing with this company and also to get a clear and concise response from this business as far as there intentions, as the other channels of communication with said business have failed so far. Between Dec. 2017 and Oct. 2018 I ordered $7600 in parts from MMS. These parts were intended for a father/daughter race car project. Over 5 years later and I am still owed over $2000 in parts and the window of opportunity to enjoy this hobby with my family has long since passed by. MMS contacted me 2/1/2023 and made an open ended refund offer of sorts. They did not include a date or method of fund transfer that would ensure that I would receive the refund and only wanted to refund me for one of the parts. This is a part that they said they had ready to ship to me last July and my order status also shows ready to ship. This is a part that is key to the whole project as well. The rest of the parts MMS would send to me, again with no completion date to protect me from waiting another 5,6,7? years. MMS broke the terms of our original agreement by not providing all of the parts as promised. I am willing to accept either a complete refund for the remaining parts or shipped all of the remaining parts as promised. The project is worthless without all of the parts and I already bought some of the needed parts MMS still owes me from another company called Wottech to get the engine running. They arrived in days NOT YEARS by the way. This has gone on way too long. This is supposed to be a fun/enjoyable hobby, not years of frustration. $7600 and 5+ years for 0 whp. Pathetic. Unfortunately, there are MMS customers much worse off than this.

  Business Response

  Date: 03/03/2023

  I have had Mr. ****’s throttle body sitting on my desk for nearly a year now.  When I was preparing to ship out the last remaining parts to him at that time, I felt it prudent that since this was an older order, I should check with Mr. **** to verify that he still lives at the address listed on the invoice.  Not only did Mr. **** refuse to verify this address, he went on to say that he does not want me to send him any parts, and that instead he wants to come pick them up.  He stated this was his stance as of 4-1-22.  Later in his e-mails towards November, he’s talking about whether the parts should be shipped or if he should  pick them up, but no where in all his e-mails does he ever once answer my question of whether or not he still lives at the address we have on the invoice.  I even reminded him this is simply a yes or no question, so answering yes if that’s the case would give me all the information I need.  If the answer was no, I then would just need the current address.  I find it ironic that Mr. **** states in his complaint that I “refuse to respond to reasonable requests” while he himself can’t be bothered to reply to a simple question regarding his address, an answer which would allow us to ship him the parts he is now asking be shipped.  His behavior leads me to believe that his main objective here is to drag this out into infiniti.  He has sent hundreds upon hundreds of e-mails, a large number of which have been during this time when I’ve been asking for his address.  Lately, when he sends an e-mail out, he’ll send about 3-5 back to back.  Now I get a lot of e-mails all the time, so much so that I had to post a page on the website called Communication Guidelines to help customers. This page outlines things like response times for e-mails, which method of phone, messaging, or e-mail would be best for different situations, or mentioning things like we ***’t communicate through text messaging.  Mr. **** has gotten to the point where he’s memorized this page and it’s contents to the point where he will copy and paste it if he feels I am in breach of my own policies, but in spite of this will blatantly disregard these same policies, which in some cases has landed a large number of his attempted e-mails into the spam filter simply due to the frequency at which he sends them.  Couple this with the fact that every single time I offer a solution, he opposes it, and it sure sounds like he is either dragging this out intentionally, or he is so disgruntled that even when I offer a solution that he asks for at some point, he now shoots it down because it was my suggestion.  Another example of this is my latest attempt on February 1, 2023 to try to appease Mr. **** by offering a plan to ship the remainder of his parts, minus the contents of his order #****.  Order #**** would then be refunded in full, not even charging the 25% restocking fee we typically charge on refundable orders, and also once again reminded him that all I need to know if his address.  I thought Mr. **** would be very happy about this plan, but instead it was met with angry multiple paragraph response that ended with Mr. **** stating that he will be filing a BBB complaint.  I reply back with simply saying, "still just need that address.  It's literally the only thing I’m waiting on…” on February 9th.  Mr. **** then sends 14 nearly identical e-mails demanding I do everything his way, stating a March 9 shipping deadline, and many other things like bad-mouthing myself or my company, etc.  I say nearly identical because he’ll send an e-mail, and then 14 minutes later send another e-mail labeled edit 1, with something changed, then 4 minutes after that, he’ll send one labeled edit 2, etc.  He got up to around edit 7 I think, and then just copy and pasted and sent 7 more versions of that e-mail.  No where in any of these 14 e-mails between my last request for an address and my receiving of this BBB complaint on 2-22-23 did he respond to or even acknowledge this request, and yet he continually demands that I ship out his parts immediately.
  I guess the simplest solution is the one I should do, which would be to simply ship out his parts to the address listed on the invoice.  I think a reasonable person would agree that I have given Mr. **** nothing but ample time to respond to my question of the best address to ship to

  Customer Answer

  Date: 03/03/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  There are some holes in Mr. ******s story so let's fill those in. The throttle body "sitting on the desk..." is not "mine" nor is it what I ordered back in 2017. What I actually ordered was a new silver 68mm TCE throttle body. The one Mr. ****** has been trying to force me to accept is not new, (it is damaged/dirty/prev. torqued) not silver (it's black), and not confirmed as a 68mm. My "stance" after being sent poorly prepped/unfinished/damaged/and potentially harmful parts back in 8/2021, was that MMS would first send pictures of the completed parts, then I would personaly arrive and inspect the parts before accepting. So far, MMS has failed to send pictures of my parts or the actual parts themselves. I have confirmed my address 10/7/2022 and also asked MMS 10/7/2022 to have the parts shipped out to no avail. I count 136 total emails from both parties in over 5yrs. along with stretches of up to 6 months with no replies from the business. Mr. ****** said a "1.5 week response time" for emails is what to expect. However, in some cases, after the 1.5 weeks was up and Mr. ****** did not stand by his word and reply, I would then (and only then) send multiple emails until I got an open ended/mostly uninformative response, and that same email cycle has repeated over and over for years and years. Here is an example of one of my many attempts to resolve this, complete this project, and stop the cycle. Email 9/18/2020; "Hi ****, Yeah, we are both busy people and time flies by quickly for sure and the reason for this build is going to be a senior in High School next year. Thinking that gives us maybe two summers of some type of local motorsports fun before college and whatever lies beyond. So, our latest verbal agreement had the parts completed by this summer which would have been great. As far as the headers go, you told me it would take 2 months to complete them before I placed my order. That was in January of 2018. Let's start here, How about we trim off everything that cannot be completed or could delay things by February 1. So maybe no powder coating and you keep the funds. Refund me for the headers and you keep the restocking fee and we figure out a way to work around the headers and still make the car run good. Give me your ideas and input on whatever it takes to get it ***e by Feb.1 and let's make it happen." That, and many other more than fair offers just like that, were denied by MMS over the years. Based on my current experience and the experiences of other customers, Mr. ******s behavior leads me to believe that his main objective here is to drag this out into infiniti and keep his customer's money as well. Mr. ****** accuses me of an "angry" email? I diagree, and the BBB has that email so hopefully they feel the same. Here is an exerpt from Mr. ******s last email; "This address I've been asking for, you sit here bitching about time over and over, but you realize I've been asking for the address for the better part of a year right?  I mean I ***'t care really if you ***'t answer it for another year, I just find it kind of ironic." Well, MMS violated one of their own email policies by swearing and that response could be considered angry and ignorant as MMS had the requested information last October, but still failed to ship the parts. MMS just keeps dragging this out to infinity. To move forward on my end, I have had to purchase some of the parts still owed me by MMS from another business. They arrived in days. The same parts I have been waiting 5+ years for MMS to send. I feel that I (and others) are being scammed/taken advantage of for trusting in what we are told at time of purchase by MMS. I would be foolish to entertain Mr ******'s completely open ended "refund offer" with no dates/specifics/or protection for me from MMS continuing to drag this out to infinity and keep the money. Solution is simple; Refund for what is owed by 4/1/2023, OR send ALL and I mean ALL of the rest of the parts, PICTURES FIRST, including headers, EXACTLY as ordered w/excellent quality, (not like the terrible parts sent 8/2021) by 4/1/2023, and I reserve the right to go up there and verify before accepting+shipping refund agreed upon 6/2018. This is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable hobby, not years of frustration. Hope this works out for myself and other customers in the same situation. Appreciate the BBB trying to help out.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** ****

  Business Response

  Date: 03/14/2023

  I just opened this e-mail today, and found it is due today, so I'm going to have to keep this short.
  Actually, everything I said in the last message is 100% true.  The throttle body that has been sitting on my desk for a year is a 68mm TCE throttle body, which is what he ordered, and is silver in color.  I did at one point offer a new black one instead to Mr. ****, but he insisted it wasn't new at all, and was made 5 years ago, and was used, and many other incorrect accusations.
  Through multiple years, he has continually complained about what he calls "paint", which is actually powdercoat on the underside of the lower intake manifold which we shipped him, because he was worried about it coming off.  I told him the melting temperature is over 450 degrees, and it will not come off under normal engine conditions as that part of the engine only gets to about 200 degrees.
  Mr. **** has made it his mission to belligerently send hundreds and hundreds of e-mails at a rate which has landed him in my spam filter more than once, often sending 5 e-mails within minutes of eachother, and then wondering why he's not being responded to.  I have gone to the point of walking him through why he is not getting responses to these e-mails over and over again, wasting countless hours of my valuable time which is much better used on other customers.  I've mentioned that he has been witholding something as simple as his address from me for over a year, keeping me from sending his order, but then complaining about the timeline caused by this.  I even recently noticed he was in my "aban***ed carts" list, but instead of using his shipping address, he used my shop's instead.  This is his idea of being clever.  Minutes ago, I just found out his address is on this complaint, so I guess I'll be shipping his parts there as this should be his current location.

  It has become increasingly evident that Mr. **** is a customer who will never be pleased, so I will no longer be wasting any time trying to please him.  What I will do is to conclude our business by shipping parts to the address on this complaint, and moving on with my life.

  If you at the BBB would like me to attach every single e-mail he's ever sent me, let me know the best way to do this, and will get to work on that as well.

  **** ******
  Milzy Motorsports

  Customer Answer

  Date: 03/16/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  If the BBB would like a transcript of all customer/business correspondence, kindly let me know. It paints a very accurate picture of what happens to a MMS customer like myself, trusting in what MMS says at the time of purchase then paying up front. I was warned by many others this exact situation would occur, and it did, so this is partly my fault. However, Mr. ****** has had years to do his part and failed. Mr ****** knows exactly why these parts were ordered in the first place, and I blame him directly for his failure with that side of things. I keep asking Mr. ****** how would he react if the tables were turned and I was the one responsible for ruining his father/son project. He never answers. As you can see from his replies, he always considers himself the victim. Mr. ****** has never once shown empathy or apologized to me for his failure to come through for my daughter or myself. Mr. ****** is not going to refund me (or other customers) nor will he send me (or other customers) the parts. He has found a way to "legally" steal and scam trusting people. As I always say to Mr. ****** "prove me wrong" He never does.
  
  I stand by my last BBB message. All of what I have stated is backed up by emails, texts, and also pictures of a clearly damaged/dirty/used black throttle body. No silver throttle body pictures were ever sent to me. Out of curiosity, I emailed the supplier that was involved with producing/selling these and asked if the throttle bodies are still being produced. They responded with "no we stopped because of lack of interest." Bottom line is that I did not receive the throttle body that I ordered over 5 years ago. That would not "please" any customer. I do not believe you ever had my throttle body Mr. ******. Send me some pics of it with my order # written in yellow paint pen and prove me wrong...or simply refund me.
  
  Mr. ****** claims "100% truth" after stating he waited over 1 year for my address conformation? Please refer to my email from 10/07/2022 along with my "stance" in my last response to disprove his claim. Furthermore, Mr. ****** still has not fulfilled  basic customer requests of simply sending pictures of the completed parts. I suspect Mr. ****** does not have completed parts to take pictures of. Prove me wrong. Send pics of ALL of my parts with my order #s written in blue paint pen on them, then await further instructions...or simply refund me.
  
   Mr. ****** gave his word of a 1.5 week email response time. He has not kept his word. I am under no such obligation. Why and when I send emails to MMS entirely up to me and is clearly explained in my last BBB message.  
       
  On Mr. ******'s "abandoned carts accusation" I did fat finger the "reorder" button as it is right above the "view order status" button on the MMS website screen, so maybe that is why? MMS sent multiple (auto generated?) emails after that, asking me to "confirm my reorder"
  Beyond that, his "shop address story" is a fabrication or issue on his side, not mine. In 2018, the MMS website did "mistakenly" overcharge me hundreds of dollars in shipping by his own admission. I have his text that states he will "take care of that" error.  
  
   Wasting customer's materials by "painting" inside of their engines where it cannot be seen or enjoyed and can only cause harm does not "please" customers in any way, however thank you for properly masking off all the other parts to keep the "paint" out of my engine. That saved me hours of fixing more of your mistakes. Being sent damaged, improperly prepped parts with a poor finish that requires hours of the customers time to repair does not "please" customers either. Refusing to verify part fitment like promised at time of purchase does not "please" customers etc... Miltzy Motorsports is scamming me (and others). Prove me wrong. That would "please" me. I'll keep watching for those pictures Mr. ******. You have 5 business days.
  Sincerely,
  
  *** ****

• Initial Complaint

  Date:12/19/2022

  Type:Customer Service Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  On October 4th of this year I reached out to **** ****** via email and asked him if he would be able to tune my 1996 Buick Regal PCM and he told me that he doesn’t think his tuning software would be able to open it up and told me what he could do is take a PCM from a 97 and modify that to would with my vehicle. I replied back and told him that Is what I wanted to do. He then asked for my phone number and we discussed modifications and I payed a total of $300.55 with shipping and taxes included. When I received the pcm I installed it and tried to start the car with no luck. We then emailed back and forth and scheduled a time I could go to his shop where he could try what he wanted and see if he could get it working. Again we had no luck and couldn’t get the car to start with the 1997 PCM. He reassured me that he would figure something out and get back to me. That was on November 10th and he has failed to reach of to me or return my emails/ phone calls.

  Business Response

  Date: 01/04/2023

  There are some holes in Mr. ******** story, so let's fill those in.  It is true that Mr. ****** placed an order on my website for a pcm (engine computer) tune for his vehicle.  His vehicle is a 1996 Buick Regal.  What he didn't mention is that he installed an 3800 supercharged engine from a "2000 or 2002 Bonneville" according to his October 11th e-mail.  He left the old 1996 transmission in there as well to further complicate things.  So this tune is a little complicated, as I first have to start with a 1997 Buick Regal 3800 Supercharged pcm, but make the 4t60e transmission in his car work instead of the 4t65eHD that the 1997 supercharged came with, then I have to make accomodations for both the gear ratio differences and the tires sizes as they are different between both these vehicles, then I have make the accommodations necessary for the pcm to work in the previous platform of that vehicle since a 1997 Buick Regal is a completely different car compared to the previous generation's 1996.  Then I have to make changes to some of the tuning, mostly the MAF and AFR tables to calibrate the 1997 pcm for use with the 2000-2002 Bonneville engine.  Then I have to make changes for the modicaitions the customer has done to the engine itself, specifically the engine's camshaft, valvesprings, fuel injectors, and other parts.

  On October 11th, I reminded Mr. ****** of all this through an e-mail, his response is then shown below ...

  -----------------------------------------------------------------

  **** ****** <**************************> Oct 11, 2022, 4:49 PM
  
  to *******
  
  Do me a favor and read this page.  I think it will help you out ... Communication Guidelines (********************)
  
  This is a tricky pcm tune to do.  In addition to the normal 1996 to 1997 stuff, I have to take into account the generational change of the body and the changes that happened with that, make the 4t65e pcm control the 4t60e trans, account for the gear ratio, account for all the gear/tire related differences between a 1997 regal gs 3800 supercharged/4t65eHD and a 1996 regal gs 3800 non-supercharged 4t60e, and look at the relative pcm pinouts between both vehicles in order to ensure compatibility.  As soon as I've got all my settings figured out how I want them, I will flash the pcm with these settings.
  
  Can you verify what your final drive ratio is to make sure I've got that figured out right?
  
  This pcm will be set up to use the L67 2 bar MAP, as well as the L67 BBV.  What's the donor year for the L67 engine/throttle body?
  
  **** ******
  Milzy Motorsports
  
  
  
  
  ******* ****** <*********************> Oct 11, 2022, 5:00 PM
  
  to ****
  
  Ok I get that. I’m just trying to stay in touch and when we talked over the phone on Tuesday last week I believe you told me it would be sent out later that week. 
  
  How or where would I find out my final drive ratio? And ok that works out great I’ve already got a 2 bar and the wiring. The top end came off a 2000 or 2002 bonneville sari and I’m not positive about the tb but the maf is a AFH50M-05.
  
  And I already have a bbv I thought. I just took of the regulator.

  ----------------------------------------------------------------

  In my e-mail to him, I also asked him to read my communication guidelines page which gives customers useful information on communication like when to use e-mail or phone, response times for each, etc.

  I was first made aware of Mr. ******** problem with the car not starting on October 20th.  I responded by calling him in order to solve the problem quickly, and after a couple phone tags back and forth, I had a 19min phone call with Mr. ****** at 3:04pm that day trying to help him to get the car started.  He called me after hours that day at 6:40pm, but I was not available.  He then called me the following day, again after hours at 5:05 and 5:14pm, and I called him back at 5:23 in spite of being closed.  I instructed Mr. ****** at that point that the best way to solve the problem would be to drop the vehicle off at my shop, and I would work on trying to fix the no start issue.  We set a date of Tuesday November 8 for him to drop it off in the morning.  He cancelled that appointment the day before through an e-mail.  I called him again on November 8th for under a minute, and he decided to have him bring the car over on the 10th, and not drop it off, but wait with it, and if memory serves, he was there for about an hour or two. I advised him that this wouldn't give us the best chance of success on the first try, but that's what he wanted to do.

  So on the 10th, I worked on the car, and flashed new software onto another 1997 pcm hardware, and although this one did start, it shut off shortly after starting. I didn't have the car at my disposal for long enough to do more than to write a new pcm file from scratch, flash it, and install the pcm to see if it worked or not.  I really needed to dig further into it to see why it was starting and not staying running.  I suspected the Vehicle Anti-Theft System, but didn't get a chance to take any measurements before Mr. ****** had to leave.  I also mentioned wanting to see if I could use a 1998 pcm instead, something I had not done before while retaining the 1996 wiring harness, and didn't know if it would even be possible, but said I would look into it.  I told him I was extremely busy, and this would take some time as it's pretty complicated, and Mr. ****** said he wasn't in a hurry.

  November 10th was the last day I received a phone call from Mr. ******.  It was also the last time I received an e-mail from him up until an e-mail he sent on Saturday December 17th at 12:37, which simply said "Hello?".  I answer e-mails when I'm at the shop.  On Monday, I received the first notification about the BBB COmplaint, and sent him this e-mail ...

  ----------------------------------------------

  **** ****** <**************************> Dec 19, 2022, 9:22 AM
  to *******
  
  Did you seriously file a BBB complaint because I didnt answer your email from 5:36 pm Friday?  We close at 5 on Fridays.  We post this on the website, as well as the 10-15 business day response time for emails.
  
  I'm officially on vacation this week, another fact posted on the website.  I had planned to spend a little time working before I actually had to leave, and one of my 3 or 4 tasks i need to do was finding a solution to your car.  Now I have to respond to a BBB complaint which is probably due before I'm supposed to return from holiday break.
  
  I guess I'm just trying to figure out where your priorities are?
  
  **** ******
  Milzy Motorsports 
  
  
  
  
  ******* ****** Dec 19, 2022, 10:45 AM
  to ****
  
  No I filed a complaint because It’s been months since I’ve heard anything from you. I’ve tried reaching out to you multiple times 
  
  **** ****** <**************************> Dec 19, 2022, 11:21 AM
  to *******
  
  When you say "months", do you mean a month?  You were at my shop about a month ago.  So the absolute most waiting you could have done is the time between then and now.  I'm attaching a screenshot of your call log, which shows zero calls from you between Nov 10 and now.  According to emails, you arrived about 1215 that day.  So if these  "multiple times" of communication attempts didn't happen through phone calls, and there was one email, then where are the other attempts which would constitute the word "multiple"?

  -----------------------------------------------------

   

  Mr. ******** main complaint here is that I have been ignoring his "e-mails and phone calls" since November 10.  I've attached that picture of the phone history and the complete lack of calls.  He also made one e-mail, apparently the day he filed the complaint on 12-17-22, and I was notified at 8:29am on 12-19-22.

  Anyways, I just got back from Holiday break, and saw the immediate deadline on this response, so that's what I did.  I will continue to try to contact Mr. ****** and get this worked out I guess.

   

  Let me know if you need anything else.

  **** ******

  Milzy Motorsports

   

   

• Initial Complaint

  Date:08/16/2022

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  ResolvedMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  October of 2021 and January of 2022.. ordered items on these dates with a 8-10 week lead time … he started not answering calls or Emails then when I asked for a refund I was told I couldn’t get one on custom parts ,I then asked for updates and photos which he responded a month later still without updates or pic …I asked for a partial refund about 1/2 price he never responded then I told him I was seeking legal action

  Business Response

  Date: 08/30/2022

  Both of the products Mr. ****** ordered are custom made parts which we have not yet made before.  The headers he bought were a newer version we designed to able to be mass-produced as opposed to all of it being hand-made as we had done on previous versions, which also cost more money for this reason.  This was plainly posted in the product description of the item.  The other item purchased was a custom subframe for the rear of the car, which we call a cradle.  This is a product we have never made before.  We are in the midst of finishing the very first batch we've ever made.   This was also plainly posted in the product description when Mr. ****** made his purchase, and it was also relayed to him in the phone conversations preceding his purchase.

  We have our policies posted on the website for everyone to read.  They are in plain view, in simple straight-forward language.  We even have a checkbox in the checkout section asking the customer to verify they have read and agree to these policies as they dictate how we do business.  Mr ****** apparently refuses to read and/or remember this, but has no problem checking that checkbox upon checkout.  In addition to the Policy page on our website, we also have posted a page called Communication Guidelines, which gives the customer handy advice regarding the best methods to get in touch  us.  These are simple things like call one time, during business hours, leave a message if you call, if voicemail is full, send an e-mail, etc.  As usual, Mr. ****** refuses to follow these guidelines even when they are pointed out to him.

   

  On April 8, he requested a refund saying if the parts don't ship that day, he wanted a refund that day, to which I responded that the parts he purchased are non-refundable, which was clearly posted on the website in both the product description and the policy page.  He then threatened to drive from South Carolina to OH to come see me, when he said"That’s all I wanted to no ..I’ll see you next week "  I also found where he said this on April 5 "I see I’m gonna have take a drive to Ohio for you to take me serious bout my money I’m not bout to go back and forth about this since you tryna be funny bout the situation …and as far as you calling we have nothing to talk about I’ll be seeing you very soon sir"

  Based off this, I thought he was going to drive to Ohio, so I waited for that to happen, and it never did.  On June 17th, he said he was hiring a lawyer.  At that point, due to the protocols, which again are listed on the policy page, I cut off all communication with the customer.  He would continue to ask for updates eventhough he had already threatened lawsuit.  I did not answer any phone calls or e-mails from this point further, that is until July 20th, where I sent him this ...

  **** ****** <*****@milzymotorsports.com>

  Jul 20, 2022, 4:21 PM

  to *****

  Your last e-mail referred to you taking me to court/suing me.  This is not something I take lightly, and even have posted our policies regarding these kind of threats on the website in the Policy section for this reason.

  Essentially, once you are committed to this course of action, there cannot be communication between you and I directly, only through our attorneys.

  To extend an olive branch on this, I will offer this as an option ... if you're willing to agree to a statement stating you will not be suing me, I could be amenable to doing business as usual with you, and not having this situation tarnish our previous business relationship.

  **** ******

  Milzy Motorsports

  Then he responded with this ...

  ***** ******

  Jul 20, 2022, 6:42 PM

  to ****

   

  im not agreeing to **** **** you can call them treats or whatever ive been more than patient with you regarding my money or my parts ...im not the first person that you have done like this but you can add this to ya website  policy quit thinking you can write and talk your way out of giving me my money....i told you awhile back im comin to get my parts or my money...see wut you think is that im not gonna come all the way to Ohio cause your closed on the weekend but **** let me tell you sir I too have polices too so dont  be surprised when i show up to your place of buisness cause to be real wit you at this point its really not about the money **** i got more headers its the fact that you take people as a joke ....but the look on ya face when we come face to face will be well worth that ride lol .... PS you can put this in bold writing save i dont care if I have to come to Ohio this i gonna go 2 ways ...im going  to jail or your gonna have to kill me simple as that i told you not to **** wit me  

  ---------------------------

  So based off this, I assumed we would just work this out in court, or he'd come to my shop as he threatened in the last sentence there.

  I offered him a way to continue doing business.  He refused and made further threats.  I'm kind of at a loss of how to proceed, so I guess this will just work itself out in court.

   

  I saw in his complaint he mentioned be willing to settle for a 50% refund, and not receiving a response to this.   I don't recall this happening, but I can look into this to see if it's possible to do, as this may be a simpler solution.

   

  Let me know if you need anything else.
  

   

   

  **** ******

  MIlzy Motorsports

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/30/2022

  
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****** ******