ComplaintsforLadd Hanford Chrysler

• Initial Complaint

  07/24/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I had my breaks and rotars replaced per the suggestion of this dealership in March. On 7-22-23 I returned to this dealership for an oil change where they proceeded to tell me that my (3 mo. ) old breaks were at a 7 on their 4 point inspection. I questioned how that could be when only driving on these breaks for 3 months. They re-measured the breaks and said that it indeed was a 7 and that it may be due to a caliper that was sticking out? Please keep in mind, nobody mentioned a caliper when they went over the 4 point inspection or prior on the date in March when they replaced my breaks. I do light city driving. There is no reason my breaks put on new measuring a 12, should be a 7 three months later. I was told that the Service Manager would be calling me, that never occured. Everytime I go to this dealership they find more to add to the services I need and clearly this is the norm when it comes to customer. I overhead them telling an older woman next to me that she needed four new tires because hers were dry rotted. The woman told them to go ahead with the service, however; inquired why she was not told of this when she was there 4 months ago. Tires DO NOT dry rott overnight nor do they in 4 months. This busines seems to practice fraudulent practice, especially to females whom they think is less than knowledgable regarding automotive repairs. I plan on taking my **** to another mechanic to verify these "repairs" were actually completed and that my car is in actual working order due to a grinding noise it is now making post being in the shop of this dealership 7-22-23. I am extremely upset and angered that this dealership would take advantage of the trust and safety of the consumer in this manner and I am asking for at least a partial refund on visit in March.

  Customer response

  07/24/2023

  The car is in my husband's name. *****************************. I drive rhe car and take it for its maintenance. This is why I am filing the complaint. He has given me consent to file. We own this car as marital property. 

  Business response

  07/27/2023

    *******, 

         Thank you for taking the time to forward the clients concerns to me. I am aware of the situation, it occurred on a Saturday when I was not present. My staff alerted me to the situation on Monday upon my arrival. After reviewing with the advisor what happened during the visit I was not inclined to call nor did anyone request me to call as the advisor had followed proper procedure. During the visit when the client raised an objection the advisor had the vehicle brought back in and re-checked the thickness of her pads, they were indeed 7/32 and new ones as measured by me today are 11/32.

         The advisor had offerred to have a more experienced technician check the brake system to see if there was an issue with a caliper sticking or if the brakes were wearing normally but the client declined. At that point there was nothing more my staff could do when the client declined nor would I be able to assist if she wouldn't let us look further into the issue. This may well be an issue of normal wear. The rear brakes seem to need replacement on this vehicle about every 30,000 to 35,000 miles of driving with this clients driving habits. Initially during the used vehicle inspection the brakes read as new, at 44173 miles they were noted that the rear brakes needed replacement and there was an issue with one of the calipers. Those repairs must have been done elsewhere as the client declined the repairs and I have no record of addressing rear brakes until they again needed replacement at 71660 miles. According to the mileage she put on them between installation and now they used 4/32, which would indicate a higher than normal wear but the advisor did note that they were evenly worn. The client commented that she only does light city driving, that may be indicative of the higher wear. Most taxi cabs drive in cities and have the highest wear of any vehicle on the road. 

        In any regards, I don't disagree that the wear seems to be excessive, if it were my vehicle I can assure you that I would not have used that much material in that amount of miles, but I drive alot of highway and 2 lane backroads, seldom in the city. In any respect, I am happy to address the clients concern but would need the vehicle to be assessed by my technicians to offer a reasonable explanation. As always, the client is welcomed to accompany one of my staff members into the garage to see and feel first hand what the issue may be. I've included a picture of the new brakes that her vehicle takes, as you can see they are significantly smaller than front ones, more along the size of a motorcycle. Small pads will have less of a tendency to dissipate heat and cause them to wear more quickly. That is exacerbated by heat build up during stop and go city driving.

         I'd also like to address the clients accusations that my staff takes advantage of women. That is ridiculous, anyone on my staff acting in an unscrupulous manner would be immediately expelled. Furthermore, the advisor who was working with her was a woman and half my staff is women. Quite simply, it is just an unreasonable assumption. The client also brought up the fact that we frequently add more to the visit than what was requested. I will never fault one of my staff members for identifying additional service needs and bringing them to the attention of the client, that's our responsibility and our clients hold us accountable to that if we would miss something. It is the clients responsibility to say yes or no. I would fault my staff if they discovered additional service needs and didn't make the client aware. I would rather field client calls for being upset at additional recommendations all day as opposed to fielding one call from a client who encountered a break down or accident from something that was identified but had not been brought to the their attention.

         Lastly, the client took it upon herself to make another clients service needs her business. She is right, tires do no dry rot overnight, not do they dry rot in 4 months. They do however dry rot over time and it is our responsibility to make the client aware when we feel it becomes a maintenance issue, it's a difficult balance between not waiting too long and jeopardizing the safety or reliability of the vehicle, or, being accused of "overselling" which we just won't do. I've included a photo of the tire in question, it was also handled by the same female service advisor. As you can see, there is a nail in the tire, which is what it was here for. Normally it would be no issue for us to repair that, but the tire is already worn beyond it's usable life and approaching being unsafe. Couple that with the dry rot and it's just not worth fixing. If you expand the photo, you will see that the tread groove with the nail in it is also the tread groove with the worst dry rot cracking.

         Regardless, the tire issue did not involve ************** and was none of her business but sadly she felt the need to involve the BBB and slander the hard working, normal people, on our staff. Most reasonable people would have picked up the phone and called to speak to a manager. We have been here a very long time, that doesn't happen by not doing the right thing for people. Again, we are willing to address the concern further to see if there is a repair issue causing the wear or just the clients driving characteristics. At this time I see no reason for a refund of any kind and there is nothing more we can assist with unless the client returns the vehicle to us.

  Respectfully, 

  *********************

  Service Director

  Customer response

  07/28/2023

   closed as Answered]
  
   Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  The female attendant and male at the service desk also remarked that they felt the breaks should not be worn to a 7 in as little as 3 months. The female attendant did offer a call from the service manager at the time stating that she " didn't want me to leave with distrust ". I never declined a call nor was I acting inappropriately as it is coveyed in this business response. I did say he could call, however; I will not be returning. One would think a business of "good faith " would still follow up. 

  In regards to this alleged caliper issue. The date of the last service was the absolute first time I was ever made aware of any type of caliper problem. This issue was only mentioned when I questioned the issue with my rear brakes. Also, there was never any documentation or mention that day or previous days upon review of my "four point" inspection. As the service manager mentioned in his response, they would rather address or point issues out ahead of time, this was never posed once at any prior service. 

  Regarding the Claim or response that I inserted myself into another customer's business? Your service waiting area lacks the ability of auditory privacy, so it is common to not only hear other customers issues but also observe their responses. I have seen many irrate customers for this reason, to only see this business turn the blame to them. Honestly, I should should have heeded the red flag then, but wanted to give this business a fair chance. 

  I will be taking my car to another mechanic in August. That was the soonest I was able to get an appointment. I would like to see if they feel a caliper, brake pads, and all that was mentioned is an issue. 

  Regards,
  
  ****************************** & ***********************

  Customer response

  07/28/2023

  In addition, I would like to address the accusations that I had taken my car to another mechanic. Up until this date the only time this vehicle was serviced was at this dealership. I also want to state that regardless of city driving, the only way pads would wear in that short time frame is if 1.) They were low grade/cheap pads that were installed in March. Which is poor on a business end due to paying over $400 dollars for that service. 2.) They were never replaced at all. Also,in March I was informed I needed new rotors as well. This was done. You typically find out your caliper is seized due to rapid wear and damage to the rotor. If there is a caliper issue why was that not detected when brakes and rotors were replaced in March?? Neither then nor recently was this EVER documented on the 4 point inspection. 

  Also, it is irrelevant for the business to upload pictures of tires, that may I add can be any random tire they chose to photograph, when the issue is good, fair, and honest business practices.  I mentioned discrimination against women due to feeling that women are taken advantage of , thinking there is a lack of knowledge in the automotive profession. This is based on what I have seen, heard, and my own personal experience recently. 

  Business response

  08/02/2023

  *******,

               As ************* suggested, I agree that the brakes should not be worn to 7/32 in the nearly 5 months since they were installed. I agreed with that in my first response and I acknowledge that most people would not experience that kind of wear. I also offerred a solution to investigate the issue and determine a course of action. 

               The advisor didn't want her to leave with any "distrust", it is our policy that if someone indicates that they are dissatisfied in any way that we make an attempt to understand and resolve the issue before the client leaves. At that time the advisor brought the vehicle back in to confirm the results and offered to have a main shop experienced repair technician address the issue to diagnose the cause, ************* declined that solution. Again, ************* concern was identified on the complimentary multi-point inspection by our lube techs who recorded the brake thickness readings not with the intention of recommending or selling anything to her at that time, merely to provide her with the regular fitness report for her vehicle which we provide at each visit so clients can understand the fitness of their vehicle through it's lifetime of use. 

                When the brakes and rotors were replaced a caliper issue would have been evident if present at that time since that type of repair would require the technician to retract the caliper piston to allow the new pads and rotors sufficient clearance to fit. There was no issue at that time and the technician was able to retract the caliper pistons freely. 

               You will see by the attached invoice, #***** line * from 04/17/2021, that the caliper on the left rear was identified as a potential issue due to the irregular brake pad wear the vehicle had at the time. That was declined. Our facility never made any repairs to it after that date.

               There was no reason for ************* to mention another clients business or assume what the other clients experience may have been, regardless of what she could overhear, except to shed a negative light on our business for her own advantage. I will acknowledge that frequently we have clients whose reactions or expressions may not be pleasant upon receiving their diagnosis or information of additional service needs, but it's likely because they are in need of repairs and society as a whole doesn't "want" to spend money for repairs. It's a necessity and people would rather spend money on enjoyment. It's no different than the reactions from people who need to see a doctor or dentist for an issue and would rather be spending money on something else. 

             We encourage ************* to get a second opinion, our repairs are warranted by the manufacturer for 2 years/unlimited miles for parts and labor.

  Customer response

  08/02/2023

   Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Regards,

  ****************************** & ***********************
  The invoice that was attached is from a service in4/17/2021. Which is questionable.  The service where break pads and rotors were replaced in March of 2023? Essentially, 3-4 months ago. If you look at MY invoices uploaded, there was no mention to  any issues with a caliper until questioning the validity of the prior service. It is also common practice that when performing break pad replacement  that calipers are a moving part of that replacement due to providing the clamping force to make that happen. Hence, causing the friction of b the break to slow you down. So, in the business response they're basically saying that they push the caliper back in, which will do damage to the system and not bleeding the system. So, essentially I paid over 460ish dollars for sub par work and would explain why my breaks are worn. Essentially, this business has notated an issue they have been putting a ******* on since 2021 and when a service should have been performed to remediate this in March (see invoice) it was never performed correctly. Also, to address the solution this individual posed to correct the issue, they only resolution was to re-measure pads and have a service manager contact me. The facet that this business is saying I refused is basically a lie. I was indifferent. I neither refused nor agreed. I was told a service manager would call and they did not. This is why I chose to move forward with this complaint. 
  

  Customer response

  08/03/2023

  I would like to add two additional documents. It occurred to me after the business stated in 4/2021 that they mentioned calipers. On11/27/21, I ha my PA state inspection performed. At that time, there was nothing notated on my inspection that calipers were needed? The business even replaced a rear axle that was under warranty at that time and stated it was contaminating the break shoes? No mention to caliper issues or replacement? And stating "vehicle operating as designed at this time". My vehicle passed state inspection on this date. Should there have been a caliper issue, showing any signs of leaks or mechanical issues; it would have failed State inspection per ** code title 67, chapter 177. Unless, the dealership is also fraudulent in inspections as well as business practices.  Another mention to bring to attention is, according to the documentation, in November, 2021 my breaks measured at a 7. Front and rear. Again, in April of 2023. No mention of calipers and breaks checked off as "ok". November of 2022. My car passed inspection there, with no statement of caliper issues. My car would have not passed inspection if this was true. Also, on November 27th, 2021 my breaks reading 7, front and rear? Fast forward to March 11th, 2023 the date my breaks and rotars are replaced and they are measuring at 8 front and 3 rear. So essentially in two years my front Breaks improved from 2021? In addition, now less than 3 months from that service, my breaks are now back to 7's with a caliper issue that was supposedly documented in April of 2021 with no supporting documentation in between. Which if needed, I can provide more service documentation. Two state inspections performed and both passing even with faulty equipment according to this dealership. I also noticed on each area of documentation they always notate that "the customer declined " which is completely false in this current situation. I question the validity of the document that the dealership even provided here at this point. At this point I am requesting a full refund of my service on 3/11/23 due to non supporting issues of this caliper and clearly questionable business practices. 

  Customer response

  08/04/2023

  I have added the PA state inspector violations definitions for your reference due to this issue. I will be moving forward with contacting them regarding this violation unless it is settled at the BBB level. Thank you 

  Business response

  08/04/2023

  *******, 

       Thank you for forwarding the latest rejection from the client. I really don't have anything to add that hasn't been said. At this point it's not necessary to re-state everything that's been said when collectively none of us even know if there is in fact a problem that needs to be addressed. Currently this whole issue is because the ************* "feels" like the brakes should not be as worn as they are. We have offerred multiple times to address her concern, with her present, and she still has not made the decision to let us do that. I can not and will not make any decisions based on speculation and until that happens there is nothing further that we can do.

  Respectfully, 

  ****

  Customer response

  08/05/2023

  [To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed as Answered]
  
   Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  This is not a question of what is "felt" per the business response. Thr documents provided solidify that this business is fraudulent.  The document provided by the business shows that they stated a caliper issue was mentioned in 4/2021. Two years later and two PA state inspections later, that passed may I add show that if there was indeed a caliper issue, it would have NEVER passed state inspection. If that is the case, this business is not following state regulations. I also noted the discrepancy in brake measurement. Two years later, my front brakes have improved?? Honestly, this is why the business has no more responses and nor would I want to go back and allow such a untrustworthy business work on my vehicle. At this point it is a matter of safety and honesty. Clearly, they lack in this area. All I am asking for is a refund for my services in March of 2023 due to needing to take it to another mechanic that will practice fair and honest business practices 
  
  Regards,
  
  ****************************** & ***********************
  

  Customer response

  08/10/2023

  Please see attached documentation from the mechanic where I needed to pay additional money to be told I have No caliper issues. Again, I am asking for a refund for this service as it has been validated that this business is not practicing fair and honest business. 

  Customer response

  08/17/2023

  The last document I provided shows that this business is clearly lying and so does the supporting documents. I am not certain what the point of filing a complaint is for if nothing is going to be done when a business refuses to do the right thing? How is the customer protected? This is very upsetting that these businesses are not held accountable. 

• Initial Complaint

  09/28/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Roughly one year ago I went to their service shop because of a broken ignition switch housing, during disassembly they called me about a recall on my vehicles airbags and offered free replacement since the vehicle was already at their dealership. I agreed. Not only was my vehicle in their shop for over 48 hours for repairs that should not have taken more than a couple hours; but upon getting my car back after telling them that I needed my vehicle because it is my work vehicle I found that they had only replaced one of the airbags upon getting to the shop. I was still billed for diagnostics and them taking the vehicle apart for the switch housing. When I left their shop; I contacted them because I noted that my auto shut off feature for my turn signal multifunction switch was no longer working and that I had intermittent fast flash of one of my turn signals. These things had never occurred prior to going to the shop. I even posted a ****** review about it one year ago that can still be viewed on ****** today stating as such and that they never contacted me or reached back out to me to try to rectify putting in the other airbag or fixing my broken switch. I operated my turn signal manually for quite some time because they would not get back to me; and now this year not trusting them I went to a different repair shop to get my vehicle ready for inspection. The inspection mechanic disassembled the steering wheel to be able to get to and check out the turn signal switch and why it was not functioning. He tells me that my clock spring is broken and showing signs of where as if it has been so for quite some time. The specific function of that clock spring is directly related to the auto disabling function of the turn signal as well as for the function of electrical contact between the steering wheel and the airbag. Had I been in an accident this year; my airbag may not have gone off due to their error and I find it egregious that they never tried to fix this.

  Business response

  11/03/2022

  I received your request yesterday, 11/01/22, and immediately made it a priority to familiarize myself. At the time this vehicle was serviced, I was the Service Director in charge of the department and the client did not reach out to me to express his issue. There were no notes made in his file by me or any other employees about any issues from that visit. The Service Advisor from that time is no longer with the company, he suffered a stroke nearly a year ago.
               Starting from scratch with the information available to me I was able to find that the client had never visited our dealership prior to or since that visit. On that visit the vehicle, a 2007 Chrysler *** with 160,302 miles, was brought in to have a physically broken ignition switch repaired. That switch is in the dashboard and in no way affected his clockspring, it's not in the same area of the vehicle and did not have to be disturbed. He also was having 2 airbag recalls completed while the vehicle was here. The passenger airbag was not in stock and not available in a timely fashion from the manufacturer and the client chose to take his vehicle rather than waiting for the part to arrive. 
              The driver's airbag recall, which is the repair in question by the client, has no correlation to the clockspring. Granted the airbag would need to be removed, along with the steering wheel and a host of other things to replace the clockspring, to the contrary the clockspring is not disturbed to replace the airbag inflator involved in the recall. Simply put, the airbag inflator recall does not require the clockspring to be disturbed at all, it's not even close and can not be affected by the repairs performed that day. Furthermore, as part of the airbag inflator recall a function test is required to ensure operation and had there been an issue at that time with the inflator it would have set a failure code and illuminated the airbag light. It did not. 
           At that time there was no mention of any turn signal issue but based on the design of the clockspring it sounds as if the self cancel tab (plastic) is broken off. This is not uncommon for a 16 year old vehicle that at this point is likely approaching 200,000 miles. Again, I can not stress this enough, the clockspring would not need to be disturbed for the airbag inflator repair, the steering wheel does not even need to come off, only the horn pad.
           In any case, I welcome any reasonable person who has questions regarding a repair to accompany any of my staff into the shop to observe the issue and discuss the repairs with a technician, we've been here a long time and realize that sometimes the easiest way to explain something is to show it first hand. As for the referenced google review, it is based on opinions and not facts, it is difficult to change opinions but the facts are as described above. I am happy to assist with the repairs at our regular retail rates, currently the parts are on back order. 
  --

  Business response

  11/11/2022

  Thank you for the additional reply regarding this gentlemans matter. Unfortunately we must stand firm on the issue based on all of the recorded notes that we have. It somehow does not make sense that someone would wait a year and a half to file a complaint. I understand what the gentleman is saying about the costs of the ignition switch and replacement labor and he is using (as he describes) "rough" figures. He is also not accounting for the diagnosis involved. His actual concern was "Client states: Anti-theft light is on and the vehicle won't start, no lights come on on the dash, only the anti-theft light." So, as you can see, there would have been labor involved in diagnosing his actual concern, repairing the ignition switch, and testing/charging the dead battery. 
                Having read all the notes from that day I do not see any charges that appear out of line. But, if the gentleman has a copy of a written quote provided by us at that time I will be happy to honor it. I have no such quote on record. 

  Customer response

  11/16/2022

  [To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed as Answered]
  
   Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: as stated it was over a year ago and although I had said quote; from the counter personnel that day, I no longer have it. It has become apparent to me that this is not going to go anywhere and so although I may have to accept the idea that nothing is going to be done about it; it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I'll just be sure never to do business there again. I would ask that you finished the job and replace the other airbag though and maybe not take 3 days this time for a 45 minute job. With that I would leave this matter satisfied.
  
  Regards,
  
  ****** *****
  

• Initial Complaint

  03/14/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  I dropped off my car on March 5 as my engine light was on and car lost power. Since this was a weekend I called on March 7th to let them know what was happening. They said they did not have a loaner available to give me. It is now March 14th and I still do not have my car or a loaner. I understand that they have had to figure out the problem and get the the parts but their customer service is terrible. I never get a daily call to let me know what the issue is or where they are in the process. I have had to call every day and told been told I would get a call back and would not receive one. On March 10th I asked to speak directly to the service manager. He gave me the courtesy of explaining exactly what the problem was, approximately how much it was costing me up to that point ($2400). I gave approval to have the needed repairs done and asked for the 3rd time to have a new key fob ordered and added to the bill. I asked him what time line I was looking at; a day, a week, what. He said on no I would Definitely have the car the next day which would have been Friday March 11th. No phone call, no call back and no car. I am totally fed up with the run around! If I had known it wasn't going to get the vehicle I could have seen about getting a rental at Enterprise. I have had to cancel numerous dr appointments and other obligations at the last minute due to not having a vehicle

  Business response

  03/24/2022

  ******* dropped off her vehicle without an appointment over a weekend when we were not open. Given the current business environment creating difficulties for the manufacturers to supply the dealerships with cars and repair parts in a timely fashion it has been exceptionally challenging to meet the clients pre-covid expectations. Since ************** is a valued long term client we made every available step to look at her vehicle at the earliest opportunity without conflicting with previously scheduled and also valued clients. Tuesday 03/08 diagnosis was started on her vehicle and completed on the morning of Wednesday 03/09. Completion of sourcing the parts, parts pricing, and an estimate of repairs provided to her by me on the morning of 03/10 as I was filling in for our regular service advisor who had a doctor's appointment that day. ************** approved the repairs and they commenced immediately.

       Upon the return of the regular service advisor, he was updated with the estimate, instructions, and promise times as per the conversation with *************. Given that this was a major job on a 10 year old car the technician did find the need to replace an unexpected and unforeseen gasket for proper reassembly, unfortunately one that was not in stock and had to be obtained directly from the manufacturer since no other area dealers had it either, that would take 2 days to obtain. Since the additional part needed to be sourced on a Friday that meant we would not see the part until monday. The client was informed of the issue late on Friday as soon as we had all of the answers to revise the time frame. The needed part was received Monday and the repairs resumed. The repairs were completed Tuesday and appropriate quality control road testing was completed at that time.  The client is right regarding a loaner vehicle, we did not have one to provide her. We are a very small dealer with a large fleet of loaners, 19 in total, and we have had a revolving waiting list since August of 2021 for loaner vehicles. Her comment regarding ********** Rent-A-Car would normally be a viable option but they too have not been able to supply last minute unscheduled rentals, the cost of which has increased by over double since pre-covid. In regards to her key, she did ask for one and we did order it, we just haven't received it yet from the manufacturer. We did offer to provide her with the new key and the programming for all of her frustration, a value of over $300, and have not had a response.

  Customer response

  03/24/2022

  [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response.  If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]
  
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me. 
  
  Regards,
  
  *************************
  

  I do want to clarify that **** said he called me on Friday 3/11 to let me know that they had not received the part. I did NOT receive a call. Also in regards to the key fob. I received his voice mail and he did not specify that I needed to respond but that he would call me when the key fob came in

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩