ComplaintsforFogel Services, Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  08/26/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Fogel Services failed to tell me what so ever that I was out of warranty. The home was built in 2020 and has broke down March of 2023 Kept being told from Fogel the system was operating "just fine" turns out dampers needed to be replaced fogel came out and replaced and charged me $908 please see attached email I wrote to the CEO of ** ******. ** ****** built the home.

  Business response

  09/04/2024

  A refund will be issued. 

• Initial Complaint

  07/29/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Unanswered

  More info

  I recently purchased a home from Lennar. After purchasing the home I was informed Fogel would be the HVAC company for the home and that it is under warranty. I found this to be relieving. Within days of moving in, I noticed a few issues with the HVAC, the first was that the upstairs and downstairs thermostats would read a different temperature than what it was. IE: Said it was 70 degrees but it was really 82 degrees. The second issue was there is no airflow in some of the rooms so the temperature is significantly higher than in other rooms including what the thermostat says. They had to send a tech out, and an air balance guy out. I informed them that someone may not be home but they are free to go in, and the door would be unlocked. They came over, never knocked on the door, and left a note saying they would have to reschedule since no one was home. Someone was home, they never knocked or rang the ring doorbell. I called back and they said an air balance guy was in a car accident so it would be a couple of weeks before they could send someone. They finally do, he does what he needs too. No change. I call again they send someone out again. Once more no change. I finally contact Lennar, and they reach out and said Fogel would call. They don't, a few days later. I call and explain the issue. I told them I would have my lawyer reach out if the issue doesn't get resolved and was told "If you mention lawyer one more time I will have to hang up". At this point, I got frustrated and cursed about the situation and was told that if I didn't stop cursing they would hang up. It's quite sad due to it being MONTHS since I first contacted Fogel about the original issue and they have yet to fix the issue. I am not usually one to curse at people since I know it's not the dispatch's fault but it's quite nuts that it has gone on this long. I have to crank my AC to 60 just to have my room be 70 at night because it gets to the 80s during the day. So now my electric bill is really high.

• Initial Complaint

  09/18/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I closed on a new home through DR Horton and my timeline went like this, August 25th- AC unit appears to stop working (no air flow, 80 degrees downstairs, 88 degrees upstairs). Technician comes same day walks around the house, checks vents, enters attic and spends time inspecting entire attic. The conclusion was that it is almost 90 degrees in my house because I need my air balanced, which obviously was completely wrong. So I got a second opinion. Second opinion revealed that line set and coil were frozen over and ceiling was missing insulation over at least 2 bedrooms. All of this was somehow missed by the first tech. Tech came out on 7 September to balance air. This technician caught multiple issues but nothing that could be related to icing. Unit iced over again September 12 and unit was deiced. Unit iced over again September 13 and a trouble call was put in saying that my unit is iced over. Tech came out same day and told us that he can't do anything because the unit is iced over. At this point I started using my DRHorton superintendent to push the issue since I have had 4 technicians evaluate my unit at this point and almost nothing has been corrected. September 14- Another tech visit, says coil needs to be replaced but neither the technician nor the company can tell me why. Company says they will be out September 18 to replace coil for reason unknown. September 18- Get a call from company saying "We made a mistake and we can't come out today. Sorry bye." No rescheduling or any additional information. Unfortunately, this company secured a contract with buildings despite not even being accredited here. I would nearly not recommend buying these houses just because of their HVAC subcontractor.

  Business response

  09/27/2023

  Good morning,

  I spoke  to Mr. ****** ********  personally on September 18, advising them they were accidentally scheduled on the wrong day. The appointment was supposed to be scheduled on  Wednesday, September 20 @ 8am-12pm.  He told me ok and I confirmed the appointment again with him for Wednesday, ,September 20, 2023 @ 8am-12pm he confirmed with me.  I am not sure why  he is stating we did not  give and explanation nor a reschedule date, but I was the person that personally spoke to Mr. ********.  

  I then  contacted Mr. ********  on   Tuesday, September 19, 2023 morning  advising that we can  install on  that day due to a cancellation. Mr. ******** agreed to the installation of his coil on that day. 

   

  Thank You, 

  Christie Wheeler 

  Dispatch Manager 

  
  
  
  
  

• Initial Complaint

  07/25/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased a new home, August 18, 2022. The HVAC provider is Fogel Services. I've had 3 different technicians come out to look at the system and it is still not operating properly. I've sent an email to the company and made subsequent calls that have gone unanswered and unreturned. I have attached a copy of the letter that I submitted via email requesting to speak to a manager to get the matter resolved. As of this writing, I've yet to hear from a manager or decision maker about properly handling my situation. The letter delineates the issues that I am having and seemingly, Fogel Services are unwilling to correct. I have photos of my thermostat malfunctioning, a report from my home inspection, and I have spoken to several knowledgeable people who concur that something is not right with the system and that the system is too small for the size of home that we have. Basically, the system is not doing what they said it was designed to do. I believe the most prudent solution is replacing the current system with one that is adequate for my home and one that functions properly.

  Business response

  07/31/2023

  I'm sorry if someone has not got back with you yet. Please feel free to ask for mark (operation manager) or jasper ( services manager) and we can discuss it more if you would like. So the 3 times we have been to the home system has been working as designed. Every home a manual j , s, d, load calculation is done. That is required by regulation to be summited and approved in order to get mechanical permits. The manual j is the load calculation and that factors in more then just square footage there are r- values of insulation, UV ratings of windows and doors , the orientation of the house, if its on a slab or a crawl space there are many factors that are needed not just sqft. manual S is the equipment selection and that is the equipment needed . and manual d is duct designed and shows what size runs and what cfm is needed per room or area. You mentioned that you had 15-20 people over and it keeps getting hotter the units is not sized for that. The amount of people is based on the number of rooms and plus one for the master bedroom. We have the hvac sqft at the manual j at 2488 as the came straight from the builders blue prints. The main issues is that you want to be able to set the thermostat to below the design conditions and maintain that.  There are laws and regulations against that . The the regulation for this SC area is on a 92 degree day to maintain 75 degree indoor. When it exceeds design conditions the unit will have trouble keeping up. This information can be found on ACCA, energy.gov, and international code council. We can not over size the equipment for worse case scenarios. As most of the rest of the year the unit will be over sized and sort cycle humidity and comfort issues.  Air balance is done per vent air that cant be felt at bathroom and master WIC is because that is a small 4 inch run and requires little air flow to that area to cool usually from 10 to 20 cfms. Unlike a room where it can have a 6-8 inch duct run that can be 100 to 150 cfms. When temp is met at t-stat it wont shut off right away this is built into the t-stat from the manufacturer and is known as a dead band temp and keeps unit from going on and off quickly. Temperature will normally rise when unit turns on as all of the heat in that area is drawn into the return and that is where the t-stat is located. If there is issues found by a home inspector that needs fixed we can do that as long as its a legitimate issues and not a recommendation that maybe against code.  

  Customer response

  08/01/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I disagree that the system was/is working properly, and I think a prudent approach is having another HVAC Professional take a look at the issue. I am not HVAC certified to agree or refute what has been explained; another professional would be. Moreover, I have never seen a system where the temp goes up beyond the set temperature. Why can't the system manage the temp? Telling me to call and ask for Mark or Jasper is what I've done to no avail. I've even been to the business and asked for a manager of any kind and spoke to the dispatch manager who said she would pass along my info. No response. I sent an email, no response. I called back twice, left messages, no response. As for the previous service calls, if all was well with the system, why did the technician on the second visit have to add refrigerant to the system? Furthermore, it shouldn't take the system hours to cool the home (i.e., the thermostat can be set at 70 degrees F, and after a period of time, the thermostat shows 76 degrees F and it takes at least 4-6 hours, if not more, to cool the house). I'm sorry, I'm having a problem fathoming that. With all of the "jargon" that has been explained pertaining to all that goes into the home HVAC system, the bottom line is the current system cannot maintain the set temperature in the home. Once again, I think a FAIR approach would be to have another HVAC Professional come out and verify or refute Fogel's assertions. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* *******

• Initial Complaint

  07/12/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I moved into my home in July 2023 and have had problems with my AC ever since. They installed a 2.5 hvac unit in my 2300 square foot home. It does not keep my house cool, even when the outside temperatures are lower than 90 degrees. I see there have been several other complaints about this same issue and they give the J manual excuse. I'd like them to explain how my other home, which was 3300 square feet in this same area, a new build with no shade, kept the inside temperature comfortable no matter what the temperature was outside, while what Fogel has installed doesn't. My electric bills are also the same or higher than they were in my larger home. I'm sure that in my bigger house, the AC company installed the correct size unit for the square footage, while Fogel obviously has not. WHY ARE THEY STILL IN BUSINESS?

  Business response

  07/12/2023

  Fogel services follows regulations and code requirements when installing, servicing ,and designing HVAC load calculations and layouts. When the builder has a permit to build a house architecture plan are given to us and we design the layout using a load calculation and that provides what is called a manual J,D, and S.  This is required by building codes and by the county. County approves them giving us mechanical permit. Building code requires load calculation be approved by ACCA to meet all requirements of manual J 8th edition or higher. When doing a manual j load there is more then just square footage of the home factored in. Builder provides us with R- values of the insulation , number of windows and doors the UV rating of them. the sqft, the orientation of the home, any make up air or hood ventilation that is all within the design.  Next is the design conditions. International code council and energy star .gov or ACCA will provide you with design conditions in this area. And that is based on 75 degree inside on a 92 +/- 1 %degree day. You can not over size a unit for worst case scenarios to cool past design during the summer month as the majority of the time the unit would be oversized in fall, spring and winter.  That can lead to high humidity and growth within the home. This is why there are laws and regulations that have to be followed. Manual D is the duct design and layout it does the calculation of the sizing of the duct and how much CFM is needed to cool the size of the room. Manual S is the equipment selection that picks the correct size and what equipment is needed to provide the air conditioning for that home. Once the home is built the builder and the county inspector inspects the installation and certified that it matches the load calculation. After that a 4th party comes in a does a blower door/ house envelope and duct leakage test.  Also certifying that it matches what is given to them and its operating as designed. The load calculation has the sqft at 2507 more then what is stated. Cant compare 2 house they are not the same ordination can be different sizing, service history, was there a load calculation done? Customer is welcome to to provide their own Manual J,D,S that uses version 8 or higher of the acca compliant load calculation to us and the builder and we can review it. But with out a load calculation its an opinion that the system is sized wrong. We can not just provide whatever unit customer wants we can only allow what can legally be be installed.

  Business response

  07/13/2023

  The house was sold in 2022 not 2023 the complaint was the unit was undersized.  But now you are telling us that its not mechanical working? I don't mind sending a manager out to evaluate the system again  but if its working and as design then the there is not an issue with sizing or mechanical. I want to note that when the last tech was there  on 7/11  at 1:31pm it was 91 outside and the the return temp was 73degrees . and 53 out of the supply.  So system was operating within design. 

   

  Notes added by tech on 7/11/2023 1:31:23 PM
  
  130/310 PISG
  Saturation temp 44 
  Supply 53 
  Return 73 
  Told her that when it is 90+ outside that up stairs will not get to 72 .

  Customer response

  07/13/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I didn't say the unit wasn't undersized. I said a new J manual plus all the other tests that were done to determine the correct size is what's needed-new evaluation. I'm not sure what the return temp of 73 is, but when he was here the thermostat was registering over 75 degrees. Later that evening it was 78 degrees. If the outside temperatures are the issue then EVERYONE in Charleston should be having the same problem. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

• Initial Complaint

  07/10/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  The business is under a contract to provide working hvac for residential home. They left the unit in-place but did not install for approximately one year. Finally installed and unit did not work. The company will not return phone calls, when we call in and get through to someone after waiting on hold for 30+ minutes, we are told to call the parts manufacturer. It seems unreasonable that we should have to do that, but we did, and the parts manufacturer says the part wasn’t ordered.

  Business response

  07/20/2023

  Fogel was under contract with the builder in September of 21 when the unit was installed and finished start up in November of 21 and a 1 year warranty from the installation date. The unit was not left in place for one year without being installed.  It passed its inspections and building finals In order to be able to sell the home so the unit has been operational since. I'm sorry if you were on hold too long that is not our intention but do to the heat we do experience longer wait times and process through them as fast as we can. We did order the parts but were given a longer eta when they would arrive. This information was then communicated to the customer. We offer the customer the manufacturer (Trane )customer care number. We can only install the part as fast as we can receive it from the manufacturer. The part is received and tech is scheduled to install it today. 

  Customer response

  07/21/2023

  
  Complaint: 20289528
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  The home inspection we had completed before closing on the property clearly shows that the unit was not installed. It has not worked since we moved in more than 4 weeks ago. Fogel ordered the wrong part, and has been entirely deceitful through the whole ordeal. Their manufacturer is THEIRS, not ours. Stating that “their hands are tied” is blatantly false. I have spoken with several hvac companies and they state that this is NOT true. Another technician came out yesterday and diagnosed a different problem, and potentially a third problem. The AC still doesn’t work, even though Fogel guaranteed it would at closing a month ago. Fogel is either incompetent or malicious in their actions. 
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* *******

• Initial Complaint

  11/29/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Unanswered

  More info

  I bought a lennar home in July 2021 which they are contracted with fogel services. Fogel services put the wrong HVAC unit in my home, so my heat does not work properly. I have barely been in my newly constructed home for a year and a few months but warranty is over before I found out they installed the improper unit during the build. The incorrect one that they installed was also incorrectly placed so there is condensation and air leaks continuously through the unit. Lennar tried to fix something for fogel because fogel refused to come out ( very unpleasant over the phone, terrible customer service) and the warranty guy placed my hot water drip pan directly on top of insulation. I need to get my home properly working with no hazard of gas leak, fires as my upstairs overheats so I have to leave the heat turned off. Other companies did not want to repair because they said the entire unit needs to be replaced.

  Business response

  12/05/2022

  customer called in to the office and stated that her water heater was not working, se stated that her builder told her to call us at fogel we instructed the customer to call the plumber and she insisted we come check the water heater. we checked the water heater and diagnosed the board being bad.  we ordered the part, then after the tech left the home she then called the plumber and the plumber corrected the issue. the customer did not like how the issue was handled and another company was called to check the ac/heat in there home witch then voids the warranty with our company 

  Customer response

  12/05/2022

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: there are two separate issues. My hvac is still unresolved. Fogel and Lennar installed the incorrect hvac system in my home and are refusing to resolve the situation. I have multiple leaks around the unit and the heat runs continually overheating my upstairs. They have not even come out for a diagnostic. Attached is a diagnostic from preferred home services. Preferred would like to replace the entire system because the wrong unit is in place. This is a brand new home. We also found two water bottles of urine in my hvac closet. 
  

  Regarding my hot water heater they installed it incorrectly leaving a gap in my roof open to my attic causing a leak around the unit. My unit was not resolved by a plumber. Home services detected a leak in my roof the unit dried out and started working again on its own prior to preferred even coming out. I had to press on Lennar and fogel to come out and fix the seal around the hot water heater exiting the roof to prevent water coming around the electrical component of the hot water heater causing it to trip. 

  Sincerely,
  
  ******** **********

  
  

• Initial Complaint

  09/01/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Fogel Services installed the A/C system in our new home in *********/*********. Our home doesn't keep the temp we set on the thermostat, we have had them come out three times to no avail except to give us the same story about the 75 degree rule. NOW we decided to have an independent A/C company come in and do a manual J assessment to tell us what size unit we should have- the answer is a 5 TON unit, Fogel installed a 3 ton!!! Further the builder has stated that now that we brought this up, they will be checking the manual J against what is being installed... Well, that's great for the new buyers but doesn't help us at all! We went to the county and accessed the documents submitted to them for the permits and surprise, surprise, the document stipulates that this home requires a 4 ton unit AND that is the info that was used to issue the building permit!! We were advised by the county to file complaints on the licenses against both the builder, Kolter, and the service company, Fogel- that will happen tomorrow. We have spoken with Fogel and Kolter (the builder) 3 times and it was very clear that Fogel was caught doing a bait and switch... This home needs a 4 ton unit to properly cool and they just threw a 3 ton in to save money and boost their profits... Rather despicable business and I see they have plenty of other complaints here. Fogel and Kolter have told us that they are not going to do anything about this issue and we should "do what we have to do" so this is the first step in trying to get some justice. We want the correct a/c unit and supporting materials to be installed- We must have a 4 ton A/C system.

  Business response

  09/13/2022

  Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2022/09/08) */ we here at Fogel install the system in all homes using the manual j that is designed for the specific home and go by the standards of the state and federal guide lines set forth by ashrae the design temp of 75 on a 92 degree day. Building Codes require that residential cooling systems be designed to maintain an interior temperature of no less that 75º on a design day as defined by ASHRAE. Design day temperatures for Charleston, South Carolina are 92º dry bulb (thermometer reading) and 78º wet bulb (indication of relative humidity). These "standard" design conditions have been developed by ASHRAE and are incorporated into ACCA's (Air Conditioning Contractors of America) Manual J Load Calculation Procedure. The design conditions reflect average comfort conditions and take into account the limited moisture removal capabilities of standard residential cooling equipment. Although it is certainly conceivable that the summertime exterior temperature in Charleston can exceed 92º, ASHRAE warns against sizing equipment to meet the cooling requirements during the most extreme conditions. Rather, ASHRAE recommends that in addition to temperature control, cooling systems be sized to provide adequate comfort dehumidification control as well, particularly in humid climates such as coastal South Carolina. To accomplish this, they recommend the use of an outdoor design temperature for which only a small percentage of predicted seasonal temperatures are expected to exceed. Since standard residential equipment only removes moisture when the compressor is running in an attempt to satisfy the thermostat, this method provides for improved dehumidification via longer run times and improves part-load performance. However, this approach does little to remove moisture during high humidity/mild temperature periods such as during the Spring or Fall. This shortcoming of standard air conditioning equipment needs to be understood if humidity control is desired. Consumer Response /* (3000, 10, 2022/09/08) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) The Manual J dictates a 5 ton unit, the permit application submitted by Fogel shows a 4 ton unit was being installed and was approved as such by the county. Unfortunately Fogel installed a 3 ton unit which is entirely inadequate and not what was submitted to the county for permit. We are sure that Fogel has done this to all the homes in this development and we will insure everyone is aware so that they can address as we have with the builder to no avail. Business Response /* (4000, 12, 2022/09/09) */ when the house plans come to us from the builder we do a manual j for the home to get a permit from the county. then after the project starts we revise the man j to the house size and witch direction the house faces how many windows of the house and doors. on the revised manual j it is a direct match for what the house is required to be installed Consumer Response /* (4200, 14, 2022/09/09) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) this is a despicable company who changes documents after submission to the county and permits issued based on that info. Fogel changed documents and back dated them to same date as the original which I received from the county. My a/c unit runs ALL DAY, it is set on 72 and barely maintains this temp regardless of sunny day or not. They installed the same size unit in a 1600 SF home, my house is almost double the size and they installed the same size unit? How can anyone justify this? I have filed a complaint with the SCLLR and they are investigating this company across the board. There are tons of complaints about this bait and switch from Fogel-

• Initial Complaint

  08/22/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Fogel services advertises 24 hour emergency services. This is fraudulent. A service technician came to my residence to check my ac and left saying everything was fine. When I went to bed last night I noticed the thermostat was off upstairs and downstairs and wouldn't come on. I called the 24 hour number at 12:23 and talked to someone who told me a technician would call within the hour. No one called. I called again at 2:10, 4:12, and 6:05. I NEVER received a response to any of those calls to have the AC fixed.

  Business response

  09/07/2022

  Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2022/08/29) */ we have an on call tech that is on call 24 hours. the customer got an answer from the after hours line and did get service when she spoke to the after hours line and the customer was taken care of the next morning

• Initial Complaint

  07/19/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I called Fogel Services for an air conditioning repair because my line was freezing and unit short cycling leading to high temperatures in my house. The first technician came out on 7/7/22 and told me there was not enough Freon because someone had not screwed a cap on tight enough. He told me that he added coolant and I paid $144 for coolant and service visit. I did not receive a receipt or description of what they did. The problem with my air conditioning persisted. Second technician came out on 7/13 and told me that the first technician had overcharged the system and put too much coolant in. No charge, but no written report given of what was done. Technicians from the same company were disagreeing on what the problem was and how they managed it. Both of these technicians were very young and seemed inexperienced. Problem was not fixed. I called Fogel Services and asked for a more experienced technician to come out. They told me they would only send out the same technician that had come out before and not fixed the problem. I then asked for my money back because their website says 100% satisfaction money back guarantee and was told that the owner said no. I was told that the money back guarantee only applies if you bought a unit, but Fogel Services did install my unit in my new house. Their website (screenshot included) states that money back guarantee is for all heating and cooling services. I had been without a/c for over 2 weeks at this point so I called a second company. This company found all freon drained out of system, one cap loose and one left off by the Fogel Services Technicians. I had to pay $1200 for the Freon that the second technician drained out of my system when he tried to fix the over-charged system and left the cap off. I called and emailed Fogel Services multiple times and have received no response. I want a refund for the $144 service visit where nothing was fixed and the $1200 I paid due to technician's error.

  Business response

  07/29/2022

  Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2022/07/20) */ i have reached out to the customer and discussed the issues they had at there home. we went over the details of what took place and i have refunded her money for the 410 that was put in her system 1 lb at 59 dollars she stated that another company came out and put 5 lbs of 410 in the system. Consumer Response /* (3000, 7, 2022/07/21) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Their technician left a cap off and all of the Freon drained. I had to pay $1200 for 10 lbs of new Freon from another company. All has worked since then I do not have any other leak which they tried to tell me to avoid responsibility I want my money back from the service call and the damage from their mistake, not just the Freon.

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