ComplaintsforLake Travis Builders

• Initial Complaint

  03/16/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Description of Complaint:We had 2 Navien NPE 210A2 tankless water heaters installed on or about 12/16/2022. Both units were installed on the exterior of our newly constructed house. Lake Travis Builders LP designed and built the house. The plumbing company hired by Lake Travis Builders that installed the unit was ************************. One of the units stopped working on 2/13/2023. Lake Travis Builders was contacted and told us to contact Casa Mechanical. We contacted Casa Mechanical and they sent out a plumber to assess the failed unit on 2/14/23. Error code E-046 (heat exchanger thermistor) was on the front panel display. The plumber work description was "... control ************* got wet & corroded...something had to of froze & busted heat exchanger. Need to replace water heater..." We had asked Lake Travis Builders if exterior installation of the water heater would be a problem with freezing. They told us that the Navien water heaters are commonly mounted outdoors in this area and we would not have an issue the water heaters during a freeze. The Navien Installation Manual states "Outdoor installation should only be considered in mild climates...freezing temperatures...can damage the water heater...Outdoor installation areas should be in an open, unroofed area..." We had 2 freezes this year in our area. The latest was on 2/1/2023. Low temperatures during this freeze was in the high 20's. The Navien unit continued to work fine until 2/13/2023, almost 2 weeks after the freeze before failing. We contacted the Lake Travis Builders, the plumbing company and Navien. All 3 of them would not warrant the replacement of the unit. I have spoken with ************* and **************************** many times. There is a significant report filed with ****** on this matter. We replaced the unit at our cost which was thousands of dollars. Through my many calls and discussions with Lake Travis Builders, they will not take responsibility for the failed water heater which they chose to install on the exterior of our house. I live in central ***** (****** area) and other than ******* and *******************, I don't know of a more milder climate in the lower 48 states. Plumbers and home builders are commonly installing Navien tankless water heaters on the exterior of new homes in my area (****** *****). Navien representatives said the builder and plumbing company are at fault for installing the unit outdoors in a freeze prone area without enclosure/shelter over it. Furthermore, they said the builder should have told us about freeze risk to the outdoor installed units and that Navien would not warrant any damage due to freeze.

  Business response

  04/20/2023

  To install the hot water heaters we used Casa Mechanical, one of the largest and most well known plumbing companies in town.  They have told both myself and the home owners that 70% of the tankless hot water heaters they install are on the exterior of the home.  This is the industry standard.  Soon after the home owner moved in (Within weeks), ****** experienced one of the harshest freezes with record breaking wind-chill temperatures.  One of the water heaters on the home froze.  The home owners did not drip hot water during the freeze nor cover the heater.  Dripping the hot water would have prevented the unit from freezing up.  The Water Heaters heaters are warranted through Casa Mechanical and the manufacturer; not through Lake Travis Builders.  *************** will warrant against freezing.  In a gesture of good faith we pitched in a thousand dollars towards the replacement of the tankless hot water heater to help our home owner out.  We were surprised and disappointed to see this complain come out after we helped out, directed at us.  Especially since the warranty for the tankless hot water heaters does not go through us.  

  Customer response

  04/22/2023

  Complaint: 19562623
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  As per Navien BBB complaint response:  "...many customers in ** all experienced similar issues with freezing due to outdoor installations that were not protected from the elements.  Per our Installation Manual, outdoor installations should only be considered in mild climates. Because areas of ***** continue to experience freezing temperatures, this would not be considered mild'."

  Casa Mechanical (Casa) BBB complaint response said they install the tankless water heaters on the exterior of the home as per instructions from the builder.  Neither Casa nor Lake Travis Builders (LTB) discussed installing the water heaters on the exterior of the home with us versus interior.  Nor did they mention ******'s warranty freeze exclusion or covering the unit or dripping the hot water during the freeze.  Contrary, we asked LTB if the exterior installation could pose freeze problems.  LTB said 'no' and their clients have not had a problem with their tankless units freezing.

  LTB should have built a protective housing around the exterior units to protect it from freezing.  These are propane units and adequate venting and fire ******ant material would have to be used.

  It took Casa 5 service trips to get the water heater working properly.  There is no record of Casa ever contacting *******  Neither Casa, Navien nor LTB warranted the water heater which only worked for 3 weeks before failure leaving us to pay for the replacement.  The engineer inspector told me he does not think the unit was ever installed correctly.

  Regards,
  
  ***************************

  Business response

  04/27/2023

  ***** is considered a mild climate and simply dripping the tankless heater would have kept it from freezing.  Casa prefers putting tem on the outside as they have delt with leaks before on the inside (That is why as one of the biggest plumbing companies in town they do over 70% of them outside).  In the hundreds we have installed on the outside of the home over the years, I have seen a few freeze up and then thaw and work fine.  This is the first one that I have seen need replaced.  Even though the warranty is through the plumbing company; I pitched in half for the replacement.  

  Customer response

  04/28/2023

  Complaint: 19562623
  
  Either Casa Mechanical or Lake Travis Builders is being dishonest.  Casa says they install the tankless water heaters where ever Lake Travis Builders tell them.  Lake Travis Builders says it is Casa Mechanical's decision where to install them.  I don't care how many has been installed outside in the past.  Many of my neighbors have them installed on the interior of the house with a few on the exterior.  I know about dripping the hot water for future freezes however that does not pay for the replaced one which only worked for 3 weeks.  Furthermore dripping faucets in a drought prone area where all residents and businesses rely on the Lower Colorado River which is down about 45' does not seem wise to me.  It's not about just one house, it's about millions of houses and businesses which rely on the Lower Colorado River.

  If 'pitching in' seems like an honorable deed to you, then where is Casa Mechanical who you claim made the decision to install outdoor?  I do believe the freeze damage occurred during the first hard freeze when the unit froze and did not provide heated water for a period of time.  During that freeze, the unit was not plumbed correctly and hot water was not being recirculated thru the loop.  I agree with the engineer inspector who said the unit failed because it was not installed correctly.  It took 5 service calls for the unit to be plumbed correctly with the last service call occurring after the hard freeze.

  
  Regards,
  
  ***************************

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩