ComplaintsforWashington Motorcycle Safety Training

• Initial Complaint

  09/12/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On August 19, 2024 WMST was paid $325 by me on behalf of my son (the student) for the Basic Motorcycle Course starting on September 9th, 2024. He arrived ahead of the scheduled start time of 7:30 AM and was assigned a motorcycle by the WMST instructor to ride on the Range and participated in rider training activities for approximately one hour. The instructor identified that he was not wearing authorized footwear and expelled him from the course, ordering him to leave the Range. A full forfeiture after only one hour of participation. The instructor was unwilling to provide a short period of time so the matter could be corrected. Further, my son was not informed or even offered the opportunity to continue attending the classroom sessions of the ************************* this scenario, the student's mistake (not wearing authorized footwear) was compounded instructor negligence and lack of concern or empathy for the student:1) initially authorizing the student to ride a motorcycle on the Range 2) making no offer or providing relevant information to the student so that they can continue in the course by attending the extensive classroom instruction sessions The WMST Office Administrative staff were contacted but are unwilling to discuss the matter or consider working with the consumer to find a reasonable resolution. They strictly fall back to their forfeiture policy even though they recognized that mistakes were made by both parties.

  Business response

  09/19/2024

  **** ****** Complaint

  
  On August 19, 2024, Mr. ****** signed his adult son up for a WMST Beginner Motorcycle Course starting on September 9, 2024. An email confirmation was sent Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 5:02?PM to the email address provided at registration.  (attached)  This email starts with, Read this entire email and your confirmation carefully as this information is critical to the successful completion of your course and issuance of your permit or endorsement.  Failure to read this email could cause you to be late or arrive unprepared.  Being late or unprepared is a forfeit of your tuition..  This communication  includes the course details, a list of required riding gear and shares our policies.  

  
  A followup email was sent with location specific details and to reiterate a second time the importance of reading the information we were sharing with them.  This second email was sent  Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 5:03?PM (attached) and includes their course details again, a list of required riding gear again and notification of our policies again. 
  Information regarding the Washington Department of Licensing riding gear requirements is included online in the course description where Mr. ****** enrolled his adult son for the course so that people know before they enroll what they will need.

  
  After all these communications, the rider showed up to class without the required riding gear.  We explicitly express the importance and critical nature of showing up prepared to ride with the required riding gear.  We relay this information multiple times because only the rider can control showing up prepared, and when a rider arrives without the required gear it puts everyone in an unwanted situation because they cant ride.    

  
  It is important to note that the requirement for appropriate footwear was communicated clearly both in writing and in the course description and the policy if you arrive unprepared is also communicated clearly and multiple times.  When a student does not arrive prepared, only they had control over that.  We truly do not want people showing up unprepared.  
  Our instructors are required to enforce these safety standards to ensure the well-being of participants. Upon realizing the rider had not been forthright regarding his shoes when asked if they were high-top shoes, the instructor had no choice but to inform the rider they could not ride with only low top tennis shoes.  The decision to release the student from the riding portion of the course was made in accordance with safety requirements.  The riders deliberate action to say they were high-tops knowing that they were not indicates they knew they needed high-tops and didnt want to confess they were in fact unprepared. 

  
  The student initially indicated that he was wearing high-top shoes when he was not.  Therefore they did not meet the safety standards required for the course and he could not be allowed to continue.

  
  Regarding the handling of the situation, the instructors decisions were based on believing the rider when they stated their leather **** shoes were high-tops and then the realization that the rider had not told him the truth about the shoes he was wearing for class.  

  
  While we understand this situation has been frustrating for the student and his father, the instructors actions were in line with our policy and safety protocols. Unfortunately, the policy stipulates that there can be no exceptions or extensions in such situations and drives home the critical nature of arriving prepared. 

  
  As for the administrative staff, they adhere to our very well communicated policies so that all riders are treated the same.  They too want all riders to be successful, which includes showing up prepared.  We know that only the ***** can arrive prepared so we state multiple times what to bring and what to expect if you dont.  The policy of explicitly sharing our policies and adhering to them helps maintain fairness and consistency for all.

  
  Sincerely,

  
  ****** *********
  Director of Motorcycle Safety
  WMST
  

  
  

  Customer response

  09/19/2024

   
  Complaint: 22277086

  I am REJECTING this response because:
  

  We have no proof (read: verifiable evidence) which supports the assertion that my son (the student) was ever directly asked by the instructor about his footwear. We do know with absolute certainty that the instructor authorized him on the course in that footwear, which WMST claims to be an indefensible and strict violation of their policy. My son claims the instructor did not question him directly about footwear to begin the class, casting doubt on this supposed interaction. I do not believe the WMST instructor is being truthful. WMST is aware that the instructor also violated WMST policy when the instructor himself arrived 15 minutes late to the start of class (e.g., this same violation constitutes a forfeiture of the course if it had been a student arriving late).

  My son previously completed a "Quick Start" course with WMST a few weeks prior (WMST has record of this) to his attending the Basic Riders Course, at which time he wore the exact same footwear (I realize this cannot be proven). There was no issue raised by WMST instructors, and he successfully completed the course and overall had a good experience, hence we elected to use their training services again. Because of his completion of the Quick Start rider course, my son had very recently undertaken 3 hours of riding time with WMST instructors, we easily could've remedied the footwear situation at the Basic Riders Course in a matter of minutes (I told the instructor I could immediately bring a pair of boots to my son). The very early riding skills being trained at that point on the range had already been fully performed by my son as part of completing the Quick Start class. But there was zero flexibility or opportunity to reach a compromise with their paying customer.
  

  Approximately an hour into my son being authorized to ride a motorcycle on the range, the instructor rudely and summarily dismissed him from the course with no concession or opportunity to remedy the matter. Further, the instructor failed to inform him that he absolutely could/should attend the classroom portion of the course, which comprised 8 hours (approximately half) of the overall course. The instructor simply ordered him off the course. This demonstrates a total lack of empathy or desire to actually provide training for an aspiring young rider. I've spoken with numerous people (friends, family, colleagues, etc) about the Basic Riders Course experience and there is uniform agreement that this organization's treatment of the consumer in this instance is appalling and unacceptable.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** ******

• Initial Complaint

  04/17/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  I am writing to formally express my dissatisfaction with an issue I encountered during the *** 3-Day Motorcycle Permit Course on April 13, 2024, in Auburn. My participation was abruptly terminated after only one hour after class start, after my motorcycle stalled. The instructor refused to inspect the motorcycle. I was informed that this was to prevent disruption to other participants, a reason I find unsatisfactory and unsettling.Unjustified Termination: I confirmed with the onsite supervisor that I had not breached any classroom or safety rules, nor was I made aware of any complaints from other students about my actions disrupting their learning. The materials from WMST do not state that slow progress can lead to course termination. I believe I was *********** complete the course fully, including side simulations, rather than being expelled without any formal documentation from the staff.Misleading Course Description: The registration page advertised this course as suitable for beginners requiring only a basic understanding of motorcycles. However, the onsite staff described it as an advanced version of a starter course aimed at individuals who already have basic riding skills. This is a significant discrepancy from what was advertised. The courses checkpoint-style approach, where any failure leads to termination without the chance for additional training, was neither disclosed upfront nor suitable for beginners as implied.Request for Equipment Inspection Denied: I requested that the motorcycle I was using be inspected and demonstrated by an instructor to ensure there was no mechanical fault, which was denied citing policy restrictions. Despite prior checks by the team, transparency and openness in handling such requests would be the best approach to address any concerns. The dismissive and confrontational attitude of the onsite supervisor towards my queries has caused considerable emotional distress.

  Business response

  04/17/2024

  To who it may concern,
  
  
  We do cover in the beginning of class what the expectations are and what the options are if a rider is not able to complete the course.  I have attached the signed Understanding Expectations that is provided to all riders at the beginning of class with rider ****'s signature.  
  
  It was reported by the instructor that rider Dong was struggling with the clutch and blending controls.  ******************* was not able to keep up with the pace of class which caused a safety concern for ******************* and his classmates.  Exercises build on each other so it makes it unsafe for riders to move to the next skill if they're not able to meet the objectives of the exercise before it.  The instructor indicates that ******************* expressed he was having difficulty and advised that ******************* retake the course to get extra time and practice with the controls of the motorcycle in the beginning exercises again and build on from there.  It was not the fault of the motorcycle, but rather the challenges of operating the clutch and blending controls.      
  
  While I understand that ************ is disappointed, it is for rider ****'s own safety and well being that he not continue that day and return for more training with the skills ******************* did succeed in and start fresh, building from there.  
  
  Respectfully,
  
  Stacey    

  Customer response

  04/17/2024

   
  Complaint: 21586322
  
  I am rejecting this response because: The merchant's answer was subjective and judgmental in nature about the customer. The merchant did not answer the questions in the complaint: whether the nature of the course was different from what was advertised and whether it involved a solicitation to make a purchase; whether the merchant proved the quality of the facilities
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

  Business response

  04/22/2024

  The rider's tuition has been refunded.  See attached.  

  Best, 

  ******

  Customer response

  04/22/2024

   
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

• Initial Complaint

  03/14/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  WSMT is a business to get your motorcycle endorsement through. My son and I set up the 2 classes(4 tests) to get our endorsements. We took the instructions very seriously and left in time to get there 40 min. early. But interstate 5 was closed due to a fatal accident for several hours. They refuse to refund us our money because we were 6 minutes late. There policy of zero tolerance sets a standard that not even they themselves can guarantee. Their power trip I don't believe is what the wa state DOL intended when they set up this system.

  Business response

  04/05/2024

  This customer was given a full refund.

• Initial Complaint

  07/17/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I signed up for a one day Motorcycle Endorsement class after taking a permit class with WMST. I had to cancel my class participation a day prior due to illness, and soon found out that there are no exceptions to the 10-day cancellation policy and I was indeed expected to pay the full cost of the class to reschedule. This school endorses riding when unwell with this policy - hardly the right philosophy for a safety school. When I asked ********, the coordinator, about this, and why I could not simply reschedule the class when I had no control over falling ill (let alone know about it 10 days prior), she sternly told me that "***** ****** does not refund you a concert ticket if you don't go". Finally she offered a $100 discount from a future class but was unwilling to put in writing. Instead, she sent me an invoice that she demanded I pay the same day in order to benefit from this "exception". I cannot endorse a school with a cancellation policy that encourages people to show up sick or unsafe to ride or lose the money. There is no safety in that. It does not help to have rude office staff either. This is disappointing, as the instructors in my original class did a nice job and are victims of the school policies. I have all the email correspondence between the WMST office and myself to support the above.

  Business response

  07/27/2023

  The cancellation and rescheduling policy below is included at registration.  People cant move forward and register without acknowledging and agreeing to it.  We make sure to communicate the importance of keeping their commitment to the spot as we have limited enrollment in every class our professional instructors teach. 
  All our instructors are independent contractors with contract agreements WMST must uphold, including our cancellation and rescheduling policy.  The professionally licensed contractor teaching the class ************************* missed was expecting her.  She had reserved that spot, making it so no one else could enroll.  These are professionally licensed instructors that get paid for their time and expertise,no different than a therapist or any other professional service someone reserves.  If someone does not show up to class, it takes away the opportunity for the instructor to deliver training to someone else.     
  ATTACHED
  
  All of our courses have very limited enrollment.  If we didnt have a well-defined policy and students were cancelling last minute our business would suffer tremendously and wed be forced to charge everyone more for every spot. 
  The state of Washington provides a subsidy for each student that arrives and receives training.  When someone doesnt show up, like ***** did, that spot is not subsidized so we already absorb that lost income every time a person doesnt arrive for the training they reserved.    
  Additionally, ***** is requesting a full refund of $225.00.  She isnt entitled to a refund and in fact she was already issued a partial refund of $22.50 June 20th for a 10% coupon she used. 

  See the partial refund receipt ATTACHED.  She is disputing even more than she actually paid, plus we have already realized and absorbed a loss of state subsidy because she did not show up.
  

  We have no way of knowing if ***** was sick or if she  just decided she desired to do something else that day.    What we do know is that she reserved one of the few spaces that day and did not arrive, standing up her professionally licensed instructor and preventing anyone else from receiving training. 
  

  Refund receipt attached to show she was issued a discount already and is disputing more than she paid, while not actually being entitled to a refund at all.  

  Customer response

  07/29/2023

   
  Complaint: 20334765
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  WMST has indicated with this response that they continue to harbor an unsafe business model for motorcycle safety training.  Encouraging riders to show up when ill and riding when not safe to do so risks the rider, other participants, instructors, and those sharing the road.  It also shows disrespect towards the instructors and puts the health of others in jeopardy.  In my profession my main task is to evaluate and mitigate risk for the safety of all participants and train others to do so, and the WMST model goes against this in every way.

  I was familiar with the cancellation policy, but not being offered the opportunity reschedule when ill, and to pay for a full new class instead is unreasonable.  I am not asking for a refund for the list cost of the class, just what was charged after the 10% discount - there was no way to indicate this on the BBB form. I would have been satisfied with a replacement class, but after a phone discussion with the office personnel (*********) it was clear that I should not further support the business.  She likened the class to a rock concert, stating that "If you choose not to go to a ***** ****** concert, she won't refund your ticket either". She also initially offered a discount from a future class, but refused to send me an email stating so. Instead, she sent me an invoice that she demanded I pay the same day, when I was not able to even book the class dates yet. Paying for a class before being able to book the dates is not WMST policy.

  She states that they cannot be certain if I was sick or just chose not to show up. When I pay for a class and reserve the time to be there, I have every intention of showing up. If I am ill after international travel and not safe to operate a motor vehicle, I will not get on the road.  If in my job as a major airline captain I did that, I would not only jeopardize my career, but the safety of everyone involved. This is something WMST, even as a safety training establishment, fails to understand.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

• Initial Complaint

  06/13/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I enrolled for a motorcycle class and two days before the class starts I was injured in an unrelated accident. I could not contact them due to them being closed on the weekend. I went into the classroom the morning of my scheduled class and the instructor told me to contact their main office to reschedule since I was unable to ride which is a class requirement. They refused to reschedule my class, stating that I didnt give them 10 day notice - which I couldnt because I wasnt injured 10 days prior.

  Business response

  06/17/2022

  All students that enroll in a course are informed during enrollment that no cancellations or changes can be made less than 10 days before their course.  They must check a box to acknowledge they understand this policy to continue enrollment.  In planning for instructors and equipment we need to know in advance what enrollment will be.  All our instructors are independent contractors that are compensated on enrollment for their time and expertise.  We must both honor the contract. 
  
  Our courses have limited enrollment like an airplane flight, boat ride, concert or any other class.  Space is reserved and limited.  We depend on those that enrolled to arrive ready to complete the course.  If a student does not arrive or is unable to complete the course the instructor is compensated for their time and expertise.  Just like an airplane flight, boat ride, concert or any other class, the flight takes off, the boat leaves the dock, the show goes on, or the class is conducted.  Our business would suffer greatly if we did not have this policy.   
  
  I spoke to this student over the phone myself and addressed our policy, even making an exception, offering her a significant discount to re-enroll having no proof her story is true.  We have people that fabricate reasons for their inability to complete or attend the course they enrolled in often.  This opportunity for training was reserved just for her in a sold out class.  She indicated she would be back in touch when she wanted to re-enroll, thanking me for doing what I could to accommodate her and letting me know she herself was in an industry where people who reserved her time and did not use her service still had to pay for it. 

  More times than not, students who don't show up or don't complete their course come up with an excuse as to why it is not their fault and we should bear the burden, but we simply cannot do that.  
  
  Please see the attached screen shot of our cancellation policy and registration page to show she agreed to the policy when she registered.  I'd like to also be sure you know that there is no proof she was injured.  This is a 3 day, 16 hour course, so it is often the case that people have a conflict during part of the course and choose the other activity claiming illness, injury, etc. for their inability to complete the course, demanding a refund, expecting us to bear the burden of their inability to keep the commitment.    

  Thank you, 

  *******************************

   

  Stacey 

• Initial Complaint

  05/15/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I took the Intermediate Motorcycle Training course on May 15th 2022 in Auburn instructed by *********************** and Charlies ****** provided by WMST company. I amount I paid is $225 and transaction ID: **************** course provides classroom lecture and range exercise instruction. However, I was FORCED to stop the range class by Charlies only 10 minutes after the start of actual range instruction (I have pictures with timestamp as the evidence), given that I was performing normally in the exercise (other students can be the observers). At the beginning of the class, I have successfully completed the first exercise (including slow cone weaves and right turn). In order to improve my turn skill (which is the purpose of this course to improve my skill further), I reached out to Charlies for advice before performing my second turn exercise. At that moment, instead of asking me to perform the turn skill and providing advice to me, he just asked me pulled over and forced me to stop the class exercise which I paid for out of no reason except purely based on my color and gender. In addition, both ***** and Charlies left me alone there, and pretended that they could not hear me when I tried to find out the reason politely. I think as a HUMAN I DEVERSE TO BE HEARD and given a proper reason. I feel DISRESPECTED and DISCRIMINATED by instructors. It is a severe MISCONDUCT of the service.I would like to arise the attention from business owner of WMST to better interview and train the instructors. I would like my payment back since they rejected to provide me service. In addition, I would like formal apology from instructors and assurance from them that they will be more responsible and treat everyone equally.

  Business response

  05/20/2022

  We have contacted this student to understand what occurred in her view. 

  Riding a motorcycle is a skill that some people take longer to learn than others.  This student had significant challenges in a beginning rider class and then decided to enroll in the Intermediate Course, which she certainly was not prepared for.  We communicate very clearly that students that enroll in an Intermediate Course should already have basic riding skills.  She did not have the skills she needed to ride safely through the exercises, so for her safety and the safety of others, she was not able to continue.  It is clearly communicated that you do not get a refund if you are not able to safely complete the course or if you're not successful in passing the course. 

  This student did not call or email our office after her class 5/15/2022, she went directly to BBB 5/16/2022 to log a complaint.  Without any request of resolution first.  That seems punitive in nature.  

  At the end of the phone call a resolution was agreed to.  After she received the resolution, this customer continued to retaliate with a 1 star review. 

   

   

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩