Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:21/03/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Issue is a dispute on billing for a side by side (OHV) repair. Dropped off in Oct 2024 after it was partially submerged in a puddle, asked to get it running properly. Original business was ****** **********, at some point it was sold to this business. Same individuals involved throughout. Called for an update, was told we were waiting on a fan, estimated $3500 cost. Called for another update, was told they rebuilt the engine. Authorization was not provided for this. After back and forth, shop agreed to drop the labour charges (conversation recorded, summary attached, fault on their behalf admitted). We requested all documentation and were provided what they referenced on the phone as "the original partial work order" under ******, another invoice with multiple parts duplications (admitted to by them in email) ($2765.50) totaling $10+k. While attempting to get confirmation of labor charges dropped in writing, shop claimed a further $1k repair was needed. Finally got them to commit to a price for the repairs in writing. When arranging pickup details (phone conversation), shop changed tactics, said original ****** work order stood, agreement was only for "their engine repair" and the final other repair was presented on separate invoice (including part quoted on original invoice from them). Also sent an email stating all would need to be paid in full or we'd be charged $7/day storage fees (not in any previous documents) and threatened to return machine in a box of parts. Final invoice still incorrectly states KM In and Out. We have also involved RCMP and informed them of the situation as we are not comfortable picking up the machine from them alone at this point. Nothing paid to date.

  

  Business Response

  Date: 22/03/2024

  Thank you for asking us for information regarding this complaint. As requested, we are sending you information without names or other identifying information. Please contact me if you have any questions, as I would gladly speak to somebody about this.
  
  
  
  In October of 2023, the customer dropped of a ***** SXS1000 for repair. Our parts person talked with them and took the information. It was reported that the unit had been submerged, resulting in running and drivability issues, and that the customer had already changed the oil 4-5 times.
  
  The engine oil required 2 more changes to be reasonable for testing, as well as the air filter required replacement as it was contaminated from the unit being submerged. The unit exhibited several trouble codes when tested with our ***** diagnostic equipment. While troubleshooting this unit it was particularly difficult to diagnose. It had difficulty shifting properly through the gears, particularly in automatic mode. Our diagnosis was that the engine health was affecting the operation of the transmission, and further analysis would be required. We noticed during our testing and troubleshooting that the cooling fan was not working as well. Inspection of the fan found that it was physically unable to move as it was blocked with mud and debris. Cleaning of the fan did result in it functioning, but there is a high probability that the fan motor will fail prematurely as a result. The unit required washing in order to disassemble and access the engine for disassembly and inspection. The engine cylinder head was removed in order to get an initial analysis. At this point in time the customer was contacted via telephone. The customer was informed that the current diagnosis was that at least one connecting rod bearing on the crankshaft had failed, and that if this was correct the repair would be quite costly. They were also informed that the engine would need to be removed from the unit and completely disassembled in order to determine conclusively what repairs would be required. The customer was warned that this would be quite an expensive undertaking. Further, the existing trouble code had still not been diagnosed. The response received was that it would have to be done because it's no good the way it is now. (Note: Not verbatim) At this time the issue with the cooling fan was discussed. The customer was given the option to leave the fan "as-is" and replace it when it failed completely, or to have us order it at this time. The primary reason that this was discussed was that ***** ***** ****** did not have stock on the fan, and it would have to be backordered with an unknown ETA. The customer asked that we order the fan, in order to avoid the possibility of the fan failing completely and not being available.
  
  Note: This is the point in time where the customer NOW claims that he was given an estimate of $3500.00 for the repair. This is absolutely false. The customer's bill at this point was already nearing the $2000.00 mark, and there is absolutely no possible way that the engine could be removed, disassembled, reassembled, and reinstalled for $1500.00, even if no parts were required. This unit has a cab enclosure and other accessories that add additional time to what would already be a very time-consuming process.
  
  The engine was removed from the unit and disassembled. There was damage to the connecting rods and camshaft as expected. At this point a full and complete estimate of labor and parts is normally relayed to the customer. This did not happen in this case, in part because of the customer being made aware of what the suspected damage was, what it would entail, and his response of (something along the lines of) it's no good to me the way it is now. Parts were ordered and the unit sat awaiting parts. During this time the customer called to inquire about his machine and was inaccurately told that it was ready for pick up. This mistake was made because there were two similar machines that were in for repair, and the other machine was completed. We had also just implemented a new computer program for invoicing, and this added to the mix-up as we weren't familiar with the new system.
  
  PLEASE NOTE that during the conversation when the two machines were mixed up, that the customer was told that their repairs cost approximately $3500.00, as that was the cost of the similar machine's repairs. The customer seemed very surprised that the repairs only cost $3500.00 and were already completed, and indicated that they expected a much more expensive repair.
  
  The customer was called back very shortly after this phone call and was informed of the mistake. The service manager apologized profusely for the mistake, and specifically recalls telling the customer that their machine was "Nowhere near ready, and the bill will be nowhere near only $3500.00!". The customer was informed that we were waiting for parts, and some were on backorder.
  
  Once all the parts came in, the engine was repaired and assembled with the new parts. It was reinstalled in the machine, all settings and adjustments made, fluids filled, etc. The unit could now be run and further tested as required. The customer was notified that the engine repairs were completed, but that there was still a trouble code being displayed that needed addressed. When the customer was told what their current total was (approximately) they seemed very surprised. They said that they thought "someone" had told them it would be about $3500.00, but they weren't sure who said it or when it was said. No staff member recalls this conversation. The customer then said that they didn't expect a bill for more than "about $5500.00". They expressed concern that they were not notified that the repairs would cost so much, and that they did not give authorization for such repairs. The conversation was polite and cordial and resulted in an agreement that we would discuss options as a business, and the customer would consider their options as well.
  
  A few days later another two telephone conversations took place where the customer and their spouse/life-partner were both speaking with us. During these conversations, we tried to discuss different options or possibilities for a resolution. Apparently, the customer(s) recorded these conversations. we were not aware of this, but in a way, we are glad that they did, as it will confirm our information to be accurate. You have received a summary of the conversation from the customer(s) already. If you have the recorded telephone conversations available to you, then you will be able to verify the following:
  
  We agree with the customer(s) that they deserved to be given a full and complete estimate for the work, and that we should have acquired authorization from them prior to completion. We accept responsibility for this oversite and would like to rectify the situation. We understand that had we given the customer(s) a full and complete estimate once the engine was disassembled and assessed that they would have had several options. They could have chosen to not get the work done and picked up their machine in pieces, they could have asked if we would discount the invoice, they could have financed the invoice, or they could have paid in instalments. We acknowledge that by us repairing the unit that we essentially took away the ability for the customer(s) to choose how to proceed. We understand that the customer(s) feels they did not have the option to decide what to do, and we want to give them the choice. This was all communicated in the recorded telephone conversation. We wanted feedback from them on how they would like to resolve this. We gave several suggestions and were hoping for some input from them as to if they had any suggestions. We suggested that they imagine that we went back in time to when the engine was apart, and that an estimate was given to them. How would they like to proceed? If they would have wanted to see if we could offer them a discount, then that option would have been there, and given the current situation, it definitely is. If they would have sought financing, that is still an option, and even something that we may be able to assist with. If they would have wanted to pay in installments, that's something we could have explored. If they would have chosen to not get the repairs done, and picked it up in pieces, then even that is still an option. They would have to pay for the work done until the point where the estimate should have been provided, and It would mean us disassembling the engine and removing the new parts, but if that's what they would like then that's what we would do. At that point it was even offered that we charge NO labor for the assembly and installation of the new parts (providing they paid for the parts). The customer(s) offered no suggestions as to how they wanted the issue to be resolved, appeared to not want to discuss options for a resolution, indicated that they would be seeking advice from a lawyer and possibly taking legal action, and requested documents be forwarded to them via e-mail. We agreed to this and sent the requested documents. These documents included an invoice from the previous business at which the customer originally dealt with, as the business was sold to a new owner in December. The invoice sent to them from us for the work in question was printed from a program they we are currently using, but at the time was quite new to the staff. Somehow when the parts department was adding parts to the invoice some parts were accidentally input twice. I can only speculate at this time as to why or how that happened, but unfortunately the invoice wasn't proofed prior to sending. You have received copies of these invoices, as well as the follow up e-mails. In the first e-mail response (after us sending the documents for the customer(s) to review with legal council) the customer(s) brought three inconsistencies/duplications to our attention, and they indicated that they would be willing to move forward to resolve the matter of the unauthorized charges to which we were willing to charge no labor for. This email is dated March 4th, 2024. We replied back the following day, reporting that we had received the email and noted the duplications. We also advised the customer(s) that we had found other duplications as well and that we would correct these issues prior to final billing. We also asked about the trouble code issue that had been present and advised them of what the cost would be to repair that issue. We asked for authorization prior to repair to avoid any future problems. The customer(s) replied back on March 6th giving consent to the additional repair, with a provision that the original labor costs be deducted from the final invoice. We responded back the same day clarifying that we were not offering to deduct all the labor charges. We clearly stated that labor charges will be charged for all authorized repairs, but that we would not charge for anything that they did not pre-authorize. It was also clearly stated the amount that we would be charging in parts and labor for the engine repair. We received an email asking us to proceed with the additional repairs, and e-mailed the customer(s) when it was completed. The customer(s) advised that they would pick up the unit on Saturday, March 16th,2024. We sent a couple of emails saying that we would like to be around for the customer(s) when they came and asked for a timeline to ensure that the parties involved in the issues and resolution could be present to help assist the customer(s). When we hadn't heard anything by Friday, we phoned to inquire and left a voice mail message. The customer(s) called back and gave us a timeline. To ensure that there were no further complications we wanted to review everything with the customer(s) and verify that even though some issues had arisen with us completing repairs without prior authorization, that the issue was resolved. At this point in time the customer(s) claimed that they had not agreed to pay these amounts and became aggressive and argumentative. They said that they would not pay, and that we would hear from their lawyer. At that point they were told that that may be the best way for them to proceed (as it appeared that pleasing them and coming to a resolution wasn't working) and they were sent a final invoice/demand letter.
  
  
  
  The following is a personal note, and not a part of our official reply:
  
  My name is *** **** and I am the service manager for S5 Powersports. *** (LAST NAME?) purchased this business (formerly Glenn's Sports Line) as a lifelong dream and puts customer service above everything else. I share his sentiment on this and we take great pride in providing fantastic customer service. I have been in this industry for over 30 years, and have a reputation for treating customers fairly and professionally. Over the years I have had to resolve a few complaints and have typically done so without issue. I have NEVER dealt with a customer quite like this. I believe they are using the fact that we admitted fault (to not receiving proper pre-authorization prior to repair) to try to take advantage of us. We were very clear in our communications with them, especially after learning that they would be conveying all our correspondence to a lawyer. The claim that we "changed tactics" is completely false. They were sent the work Order from Glenn's Sports Line in February and didn't ever question it. We specifically said that the cost of $5448.27 was for parts and labor for the engine repair, and we made it very clear that the repair for the additional repair ($1047.12) was just that... an ADDITIONAL repair. They authorized these repairs and then reneged and threatened legal action. At this point I was very frustrated and tried to remain my composure. I told them that they should go that route and have their lawyer contact us. I did not "threaten" to take their unit apart and leave it in pieces. We had an agreement with them to not charge any labor for the assembly of their engine with new parts, and they would pay for the parts and the authorized labor. Because they reneged on that the day before they planned to pick it up, I feel like I'm running out of options. The problem arose when the engine was disassembled and assessed, and they were not given a full and complete estimate like I should have given them. Me returning it to that point may be the only option I have. It makes more sense to me for them to pay for the parts, and pay no labor for the parts to be replaced, and the engine to be reinstalled, but that appears to be an option they have refused. The final email I sent them indicated that they would be charged a storage fee if they didn't care to resolve this issue and pick up their unit. It is true that this was not something that was previously discussed, but we didn't feel the need to do so prior to these recent developments. We also didn't mention to them that we will be charging interest on the unpaid bill, but that is something that we reserve the right to do if we feel it's necessary. We are probably some of the nicest and easiest people to deal with, and really want to make our customers happy and have an ongoing mutually beneficial relationship with them, but in this case we have accepted that this isn't possible. When threatened we legal action we responded in kind. Please reach out to me at any time for clarity or more information. I would actually like to speak with someone regarding this situation. ************* ** ************************

  Customer Answer

  Date: 31/03/2024

  
  Complaint: 21466134
  

  We are rejecting this response because:

  It is clear from your response that improper/poor procedures and training, incorrect documentation and miscommunication, if not misleading business practices, have let to the dispute we face. The level of detail recalled in your response to the ****** ******** ****** was much higher and clearly detailed than any our communications, which we have been careful to document once it became apparent there could be no level of confidence held with the documentation provided to us by your business nor recollection of verbal discussions that were agreed upon by both parties. 
  
  We maintain our assertion that an agreement to cover all repairs was reached and the invoices from the original business and the final repair on the side-by-side were included in this agreement. Although we are not experts in business law, we are trying to maintain our rights as consumers and come to an agreement that was fair to both parties. Your additions or implications that storage fees and interest will be charged on the outstanding invoices are considered to be unfair business practices as we have not agreed to these modifications of our original contract with you and consider this pressure to agree to your terms while trying to resolve a consumer dispute caused by your business errors. If the business is unwilling to resolve this dispute through the *** for the total of $5448.27, we will advance this complaint to Service Alberta for an investigation under the Consumer Protection Act.
  
  Sincerely,
  ******* ****** *** **** ******