ComplaintsforSignature Mazda

• Initial Complaint

  20/01/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I had my car serviced at Signature ***** in ********, **** on December 22nd, 2022. ***re were not issues with my vehicle I just always try to keep up with scheduled maintenance. When I dropped off my vehicle I was told that recommended maintenance would come to around $850.00. I agreed because I was made to feel that my vehicle would fall apart if the work wasnt completed. *** bill ended up coming to $874.45. My vehicle only has 40K kms on it. In my mind thats pretty much a new vehicle. Yet $874.45 for basic maintenance? I felt sick. When I got home I noted most of the work done was just checks. I also noted that the bulk of this charge was for labour. $528.54 to be precise. *** other charges were $202.31 for parts, $49.91 for Misc. Charges and $93.69 for sales tax. My primary concern is that I was charged $528.54 for one hours work. I contacted the ******* Manager to express my concerns but have yet to receive a response a month later and this is why Im contacting the BBB. I did receive a response from the Asst. ******* Manager who said the ******* Manager would address my concerns the following week. She also stated: *** ******** ********* *** ******** ** **** ******* **** *********** *********** ***** **** ******** **** *** ** ******* ** ********* *** *** ***** ** ******** **** ** *** **** *** ************ **** *********** **** ****** *** *********** ** *** **** ***** ***** ******** *** ******** *** ********* *** ************ ** * ****** ******** ** * *** **** **** ******** ** *** ****** **** ******* ** ** ******* ******* ***** **** **** *** * **** ****** * ***** **** **** *** **** ** ******** **** *******. Also, I do not understand how the number of technicians working on a vehicle has to do with anything. An hourly rate is an hourly rate. Furthermore, its my understanding that ***** technicians are paid approximately $30-$35 per hour, so even if they had 3 technicians working on my vehicle it still doesnt justify this incredible amount of $528.00 for one hours work. I have clearly been overcharged for the work performed and would ask that this be remedied.Thank you for taking the time to read my complaint.

  

  Business response

  16/02/2023

  Dear ************,
  Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. We would like to clarify that the work we performed during your visit was authorized by you prior to the commencement of physical work. As you mentioned, the price for the recommended work was also discussed and approved by you before we began.
  In regards to your concern about the breakdown of labor and parts charged for the set recommendations, we would like to clarify that the total amount charged is what is quoted, regardless of the breakdown of labor and parts. The items you approved for us to address were off a set menu with specific denominations for each individual maintenance completed during your visit. As stated by you, the overall amount paid is not the issue.
  We understand that you have a personal opinion on how businesses should breakdown their menu pricing. However, we would like to respectfully disagree that it is irrelevant where the breakdown of the total amount charged falls. Ultimately, the total amount charged is what you approved and agreed to pay.
  To provide an analogy, it is like going to a restaurant and ordering a $70 steak. Once the meal is consumed, it would not be reasonable to start breaking down the $70 paid for the steak into the cost of the ingredients, cooking gas, and hourly wage of the line cook. The price of the steak was $70, and by consuming it, you agreed to the price that was set. Similarly, by approving the recommended work and the price discussed, you agreed to the total amount charged for the work performed.
  We appreciate your business and hope this clarifies any misunderstandings.

  Customer response

  21/02/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Firstly, I do not know to what menu they are referring -  I did not see a menu and was not given a menu.  This is why the steak example doesnt make any sense to me.  You dont get a bill at a restaurant at the end of your meal that is broken down into Food, Labour, and miscellaneous costs.   The only way this situation could be compared to a steak dinner is if I paid for the meal and then went home and got food poisoning afterwards as that is certainly how I felt when I got home and reviewed my bill from Signature *****. 
  
  Secondly, the ONLY reason I initially agreed to the charges was because the person at the counter was using buzz words to manipulate me and make me feel that the work was absolutely necessary or my car would fall apart.  I distinctly remember asking her if some of the work could be put off to a later date and she stated that she wouldnt recommend it.  I also felt obligated to have the work done at the risk having the warranty voided. 
  
  Thirdly, for big-ticket items like this ($870 worth) theres usually a breakdown of the price before you agree to it.  Like if youre having a ********* perform work on your house you receive a break-down of the material and labour costs beforehand and then you agree to the work if you think its fair.  If a ********* was going to charge me $10,000 for one day of labour I would recognize this as outrageous and decline the work.  I was not given a break-down of such costs until AFTER I received the bill.  This is one of my primary concerns - the blatant dishonestly of not informing the client ahead of time of the break down of the costs.  Specifically, that I would be paying $528.00 for one hour of labour.   If I had have known of this $528.00/hr cost I would have immediately recognized that it was outrageous and would have left.   
  
  And finally, I was informed that *****s standard labour costs are $145.00/hour.  Yet I was charged $528.00/hour >  this is why this situation is so upsetting.

  
  Sincerely,
  

  
  *********************

  

  Business response

  15/03/2023

  We want to clarify that the price of our services was fully discussed with ************ before any work was done. He received an email confirmation of the appointment that clearly disclosed the price for the service that was booked. In that same email, we informed ************ that elective services would be discussed with him by our service advisor during the visit. A second attachment further validates that the price was discussed with ************ and it was clearly stated on the repair order, which he acknowledged by signing off on the work.
  As part of our preventative maintenance services, we discuss recommended intervals with our clients based on time or mileage. ************ understood the benefits of such recommendations and agreed to proceed with the elective services. We stand by our process and are confident in the details we discussed with ************. We will not accept meritless accusations as the basis for **************** argument. It's not uncommon for adults who lack expertise on a particular topic to do additional research before making a decision. However, ************ approved the entire work via his signature, which indicates his agreement to the work being done.
  We are a process-driven company and deal with over ***** service clients per month. We understand the steps required to cover our bases and eliminate outlandish allegations such as those made by *************
  Regarding **************** math, it's important to note that our shop operates with a flat rate system. This means that customers are charged and techs are paid by the job, not by the time spent doing them. The industry uses a recognized guide that has a time rating for just about every repair or maintenance, and 3.3 hours were paid to the tech for the service maintenance, brake fluid work, and emission service performed during **************** visit. When you divide the $528 in labor by 3.3 hours, the rate is $160 per hour. **************** argument lacks factual evidence and is subjective to his personal opinion, which doesn't hold any valuable merit.

  Customer response

  24/03/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I would like to begin by saying that this most recent response from Signature ***** was aggressive and offensive - from content to tone.  But with no signature attached to the response I assume its easier to launch shameful and insulting attacks when you can hide behind the veil of anonymity. 

  
  Whoever wrote this response has not been kept abreast of the correspondence between myself and Signature *****.   My initial email to Service Manager *************************** stated the following: 
  * ******* ** ******* *** ** ****** *** ** ******** ********* ***** ******  * **** **** *** ******** ** ****** ****** *** ** ******* *** ***** ******* ** *** ***** ***** * *** ********* ****** **** * ******* ** ****   ** ******* ** **** *** **** ********* ** **** *****  ** * **** **** ***** *** ******** * **** **** ******* ** ****** ***** *** * **** ** * ***** ** * ********** ********** ** ********** ** ** ******* **** ***** *** **** ***** ** *******  * ******** ** *** ******* ****** ** ****** **** *** *** ** ******* ****** *** ******  ** **** ***** ** **** **** **** * *** ****** ** ******* *** ****** ** *** ***** * ****

  
  I would challenge Signature ***** to pull up the camera footage from that day and view the time stamps of when my vehicle entered the garage and when it was subsequently parked out front of the **************.   Fortunately, on the south-west corner of the Signature ***** building they have cameras facing exactly toward where I initially parked my vehicle when I arrived for my Service appointment on December 15th, 2022.  I parked beside the fence right in front of the entrance to the Service garage (**** **** ***** ** ****** ******).  Please access this camera footage for evidence that my vehicle did not enter the garage until after 2:30pm and was then driven to a parking spot right in front of the ************** entrance by 3:45pm.  I would love to be proven wrong.  If I am I will sincerely apologise. 

  
  I agree with the statement made in the most recent response:  A second attachment further validates that the price was discussed with ************ and it was clearly stated on the repair order, which he acknowledged by signing off on the work.  It is critical to note that on the work order the Labour rate states $151.95 and this is what I signed off on(please see attached).  I did not sign off on a rate of $528.54.  This blatant dishonesty is the crux of my complaint. 

  
  Furthermore, allotting 3.3 hours is clearly an arbitrary number as is evidenced by the fact that no hours were added to the time allotment when the extra work was added to the worklist.  Also, am I expected to believe that a simple oil change, tire rotation, and basic checks takes 3.3 hours.  Thats a real disservice theyre doing to their technicians in suggesting that they would be that incompetent.

  
  Their latest response also states that they deal with over ***** service client per month.  Lets assume that the assertion that their technicians use the entire time allotment.  From a previous appointment with Signature a minor service was stated would take 1.5-2 hours.  At **** customers a month and ************** business hours being Monday to Friday 7:30am 5:00pm and Saturday 8:00am 4:00pm.  Excluding lunch breaks thats 55.5hrs/week or 222hrs/month.  According to their website they have 6 Technicians and 3 Apprentices to cover a minimum of **** hours of work per month.  6 technicians working 222hrs/month of available service time is only **** hours.  The Apprentices wouldnt factor in as they have to work under the supervision of a certified journeyperson. And they say my math doesnt add up.

  
  They also stated a $160/hour for labour costs.  ******* from August ***** in ******* stated that: Maintenance has set pricing by ***** ******.  Our hourly shop rate is $145 plus tax per hour.  So clearly there IS an hourly shop rate.  Also, does this mean that Signature ***** is going above ***** Canadas set pricing? 

  
  When I can prove that statements in this response are demonstrably untrue it casts doubt on the truthfulness of the remainder of their response.

  
  To summarize, I signed off on a work order where the Labour rate states $151.95.  I did not sign off on a rate of $528.54 which is what I was charged for one hour of labour. 

  
  Kind regards,
  

  
  *********************

• Initial Complaint

  29/11/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I bought a used car with 13,000kms from signature Mazda on November 5th. It was advertised as a fully working almost new vehicle with no issues. Less than 3 weeks later Ive been experiencing electrical issues with the car. The dealership tried twice to fix it and still couldnt, so I went to the dealership to try resolving the issue in person. While there I spoke to the general manager who was very dismissive and ********* who said what do you expect, its a used car and told me to come back when I was in a better state of mind when I complained about these issue. He offered no sympathy or assistance and laughed at me when I asked them to take the vehicle back or help me in some way that doesnt require me to drive to and from the dealership for the 3rd time. They advertised the vehicle as something it was not and made no real efforts to try and fix it except for resetting certain modules twice and telling me to come back again with no real assurance that the problem would be resolved or an explanation as to why it was happening in the first place. I have 0 confidence in this vehicle and was all but insulted by the general manager on top of that.

  

  Business response

  01/12/2022

  Thank you for reaching out regarding this concern.  We also appreciate the opportunity to clarify the facts as they are misstated by the *************************  The facts as we saw them and there were multiple people present for the conversation,  were as follows.  On Sunday November 27th ************************ showed up with his mother and demanded to speak to a sales manager.  As it is Sunday and there is only one manager on staff as our ****************** is closed, I did my best to accommodate them within less than 15 minutes.  When I approached and witnesses were standing in the showroom to verify, I was extremely cordial and attempted to find out what the concern was as I had not been aware of any up to this point.  ************************ mentioned that he had several issues with the vehicle and that he had been back repeatedly.  I confirmed that Signature Mazda graciously agreed to fix some surface scratches pro **** and that was one visit and the second visit was for a malfunctioning fuel gauge.  At no time did I discount the concern or ever say the words "it's a used vehicle, what do you expect".  At the very least we need to be truthful to come to any agreement and this is simply a bullying process to get attention.  We have many clients dealing with us and we are always sensitive to their needs and to not inconvenience them if possible.  What I did say to the client is that vehicles new or used will sometimes have issues especially with all the technology in vehicles today however we do everything in our power to mediate between the manufacturer and the client to an amicable resolution under warranty.  There has been zero cost incurred by the client to this point and we provided alternate transportation at no cost while diagnosing the issue.

  Mazda ****** instructed us to reboot the system and update the software with the most current hoping this would solve the issue.  Unfortunately even though the vehicle was tested repeatedly during our possession, the client experienced the same issue within a few hours of picking up the vehicle.  He contacted us and was told by his consultant that on Monday when the service department is operational, we will make arrangements with Mazda ****** to further diagnose and replace any parts necessary to no longer inconvenience the client.  We are following Mazda protocol as all manufacturers have very similar protocols for warranty related coverage.  When the client showed up on Sunday I expressed all this information and the client didn't seem content with my explanation.  I asked both the client and his mother what their expectations were and they stated that they wanted something from me but they weren't clear on what that is.  I asked again and then the young man actually yelled at me and told me he wanted his money back.  Unfortunately this is not the most cost efficient or reasonable course of action and I stated that.  I asked that they calm down and on Monday when the vehicle is diagnosed and everyone is in a better state of mind, we can then determine if they want to switch.  I also stated that they had financed the vehicle with the bank and that they have a contract with the bank to fulfill so it's not as easy as when someone simply bought the vehicle in cash.  There are charges and expenses that are not recoverable and I didn't want the client spending money unnecessarily over something that can be easily fixed under warranty.

  At that point both the son and mother were raising their voices at me telling me that my solutions were not good enough and that maybe a public forum such as ****** and the BBB would be a better way to get what they want.  * ***** ***** **** ******** ****** **** ******* ** *** ********* *** ****** ******* ** ********* ** * **** **** **** * ****** ***** **** **** *********** ****** *** ***** ****  I did not want to get into any further confrontation so we decided to end the conversation.
  

  Customer response

  02/12/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: From the start of the conversation ***** was being very condescending and disrespectful, offering no sympathy or solutions to my problem aside from a 3rd attempt by their service department to fix this issue. It was at the beginning of our conversation that he told me to come back in a better state of mind after I was not satisfied by the offer to return for a 3rd attempt. I never went in to get the scratches polished, that happened during their first attempt at fixing my vehicle. I did raise my voice after being essentially stonewalled by ***** and getting frustrated with his condescension which I do regret. I would like to point out that it is not gracious to honour a warranty claim nor is it gracious to offer a loaner car when the ************** I bought weeks ago was not working as advertised. I have paid for a certified pre owned vehicle because of the reliability that comes with that name, and it is my opinion that I have not received the product I paid for. Only 2 failed attempts at fixing it and no explanation as to why these issues occur. He absolutely said something along the lines of what do you expect its a used vehicle or you need to expect these things with a used vehicle which I disagree with, especially when that vehicle has *****km on it. My reaching out to the better business bureau is not a bullying attempt its an attempt to rectify a stressful situation when ***** has made it clear he has no interest in being respectful or professional, as evidenced by the fact that he accused me of bullying him.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************************

  

  Business response

  07/01/2023

  We are not willing to get confrontational with this individual.  We do not agree with his statements nor do any of the witnesses that were present that day.  The vehicle is equipped with a manufacturer's warranty and part of the warranty coverage process is to eliminate causes which is what we have done here.  Replacing a vehicle for a minor issue is not something that manufacturers do, this is why the offer a warranty.  We consider this matter closed and have no further comments.
  

  Customer response

  11/01/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I am not looking to get confrontational, I am simply looking for a fair solution to this issue. The vehicle remains undiagnosed an unrepaired despite it being a small warranty issue and a service visit to a different Mazda dealership. Your response is exactly why I had to seek better business bureau mediation as you are being as uncooperative now as you were the first time I brought this issue to your attention. I do not appreciate the explanation as to why vehicles have warranties, that is common knowledge and quite condescending. The fact is that you sold me a faulty vehicle and charged me over MSRP only for it to have undiagnosable issues weeks later. At the very least the cost should be adjusted to match the quality of the product I was sold.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************************

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