Complaintsfor49'R Propane Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  05/28/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  Date of Transaction: 2/27/2023 Reason for service: I called (on will call) for my tank to be filled based on the amount of time that had passed since the previous fill. No indications that tank was below 20% (pilot lights were still all lit and no smell of propane or any other indication led me to call aside from time passed)Issue: Receipt recorded that ***** gallons of propane was put into a 250 gallon tank, and that it was filled to 86% capacity. All correspondences, dates, and explanations in attached documents - please see

  Business response

  05/30/2023

  ******,I am so sorry for all the confusion and inconvenience. We are in the business of selling propane and not to "scam" our customers. If I seemed upset when we last spoke it is only due to the fact we go above and beyond to take care of our customers, so when I have an upset customer questioning our integrity as a business, I tend to get offended. I have attached a few documents that *** help answer some questions you're having regarding the delivery in question. The first attachment is one of yours, the picture of your propane tank. Do you see the stamped printing on the bottom of the photo?"GROSS GALS 296" This stamp indicates how many total gallons your tank can hold at 100%. In the propane industry we try and fill tanks to 86% to leave room for expansion. Just as the tanks % can expand it can also compress due to colder weather conditions. The second attachment explains this in better detail. I have also attached the weather for your area on the date of your delivery. Looks like it was very cold that day. This is why I stated that your tank, only having vapor pressure when my driver delivered (this is why the pilots did not go out), a 296 could fit ***** gallons. I have no way to answer your question about not smelling the propane additive Mercaptan when your tank was that low. There could be several factors why you did not smell it none of which I would have the answer to. The computer error I was speaking about was only that the original service technician who safety checked your COT July 2nd,2020, marked your tank as a 250 gallon which was incorrect. I did refund the card that was charged on March 6th, I am sorry things took so long to get figured out, when we first spoke I was as confused as you considering we thought the tank was a 250. 
  "I called (on will call) for my tank to be filled based on the amount of time that had passed since previous fill." I understand you have an old rotary style gauge that my service tech helped you to read. Had you a newer style gauge my driver would have a definitive % as a starting point before the fill. This season was much colder than last year, that being said you stretched your delivery from October 19th, 2023, to February 27th, 2023, whereas the last time you took a delivery in October it was the 28th 2020 to January 20th 2021 where you took ***** Gallons. I only bring this up due to the longer wait and the colder weather between delivery, we can assume that you would have to have taken more propane on your Feb 27th, 2023, delivery. 
  I am not sure what compromise you are looking for me to make.Our industry has fail safes regarding gallons delivered, the meters are checked once a year by weights and measures and we perform a "Creep Test"once a month.  Also, our meters must start a new ticket within a very short amount of time with no pumping. Therefore, we could not deliver to one address and keep an open ticket to another location.   
  
  *Creep Test 
  What is the purpose of a meter creep test?
  (a) Meter Creep Test. 1. An operator of a cargo tank equipped with a calibrated meter *** check the internal self-closing stop valve for leakage through the valve seat using the meter as a flow measurement indicator.

  Customer response

  06/03/2023

  I am rejecting this response because:

  See attached photos for reference. The dimensions of the tank are 710 (94) length x **** inside diameter (97 outside circumference = **** diameter, minus 9/32 x 2 sheetmetal thickness stamped on tank = **** inside diameter). From weld to weld (to exclude rounded ends), it is 84. I have included several references to propane tank sizes, but for some reason cannot find any reference to a 298 (or 300 gallon) tank size. The next largest size I have found is 320 gallons, which would be 10 in length and 30 circumference. Based on its dimensions, my tank can hold 250 gallons of propane. I have also included a screenshot of a calculator that estimates WATER GALLONS based on these dimensions, since that is the US Standard of gallon measurement. As you can see, the WATER GALLON estimate correctly reflects the GROSS GALLONS you are pointing out. 
  I have already provided detailed calculations showing that 250 gallons is the PROPANE gallons and that the 296 (which is actually 298 if you looked at the photo) is the Water Capacity WC, or GROSS GALLONS of the tank. That is why your technician CORRECTLY put down my tank as 250 gallons in the initial inspection. Since you must have missed the calculations showing this, they are at the bottom of the *** attachment that I initially submitted. It is very questionable that your technicians are not able to readily identify a 250 gallon propane tank, considering that is the most common household size based on my research. 
  I am also willing to assume you do not have any other 298 gallon propane tanks being serviced by your company because that is not a standard size tank. Again, 250 gallons is the most common household propane tank size. 
  You brought up the time between fills the last time I had my tank filled in the month of October. For comparison, when I had my tank filled on 12/15/21 and filled again on 4/20/22 (4 month time span), I received ***** gallons. That is a 90 gallon difference between the most recent 4-month time span. While you might claim it is because we had a colder winter, I have a wood burning stove as my main source of heat so that argument is null in my opinion.
  You stated that the day of delivery was very cold. Gas compresses in colder temperatures. That means that your explanation of my pilot lights remaining lit due to vapor pressure with a tank at 0% does not make sense, as the vapor pressure would've been much lower that day. This means that my pilot lights would've actually been MORE likely to have gone out had my tank been at or near 0%. 
  As the manager of your company, you have asked me the customer, twice now what I expect you to do about this matter instead of providing viable solutions. It is my belief that in the case of solving a discrepancy, the customer should not be responsible for providing the solutions to the issue. 

  
  

  Business response

  06/13/2023

  "From weld to weld (to exclude rounded ends), it is 84. I have included several references to propane tank sizes, but for some reason cannot find any reference to a 298 (or 300 gallon) tank size."

  Again your tank was built in ****, the propane industry standard tank sizing has changed since then. I have attached a chart of tank sizing and how they are measured. (End to End) vs. (Weld to Weld). At this point I recommend contacting another propane company for a second opinion, let them know the problem you are having with us and why you are calling them out. There should be no charge for this service and it may help both of us to have someone else take a look. At which point if they say the tank is a 250 gallon and not a 298, I will remove all charges from your account. Just send me a copy of their work order.  

  Customer response

  06/20/2023

  I am rejecting this response because:

  I have reached out to three propane companies this past week- two private and one corporate. The two private companies would only verify over the phone, by emailing photos of the tank. The corporate company would not certify the size of the tank even after I scheduled a delivery, and stated that their service technicians could come out for a fee of $125/hr. Which is an understandable response for all three, since this would require man-hours, fuel, and expertise to do so.
  

  Since the tank dimensions and detailed calculations werent enough, we are willing to pay for 200 gallons of propane, with the consideration that is more than we have ever received in the past two years. I just received another bill from your company, despite this charge being in current dispute, and it included a SECOND late fee. Its crazy to me that despite this issue being in dispute and unresolved, you are still willing to rack up the late fees. So that being said, we are willing to pay for 200 gallons of propane, minus the late fees, and accounting for the $200 we have already paid you in order to settle this. 
  

  If that isnt an adequate amount, I will follow up with El Dorado Countys Weights and Measures to hopefully bring this to a resolution.  

  Business response

  06/21/2023

  I am surprised at the other companies response. That being said I will accept your paying for 200 gallons to resolve this issue. 

  200 * **** = 658 - 200 = 458.00

  I will of course remove all finance charges.

  Customer response

  06/29/2023

   
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to my concern, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  The card on file can be charged for the above amount. I would be appreciative if the business manager will mail me a copy of the adjusted total paid in full. 

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