ComplaintsforLion Home Service

• Initial Complaint

  06/17/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Poudre Valley Air was an outstanding company…until Lion Home Services bought them out. They have now missed THREE appointments to fulfill our contracted agreement for a simple A/C check, as of June 16, 2024. Nor have they called to let us know. We will now attempt to cancel that contract as they’ve broken it through and through. We will demand a full refund of charges for the rest of the contract. What’s the bet Lion Home Services will refuse and try to reschedule…again?! But we’re sick of staying home for half days for, ultimately, no reason. So tell me when have such buyouts EVER been good for customers?

  

  Business response

  06/17/2024

  I have reviewed the account and do see that there have been a couple of reschedules for this appoint both from our end due to emergency situations where we had multiple clients with no AC. With the heat wave we have had (many days in a row with over 90 degree temps) we are doing our best to get to all appointments. However there were also 2 requests from the client to reschedule as well. We are trying to accommodate all appointments for service and maintenance. I did also receive their request for a refund of their Poudre Valley Air membership and have passed that on to our contact at PV to process. I also attempted to call the client this morning and only received voicemail- I did leave a message as well. 

   

• Initial Complaint

  06/12/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Lion installed AC in 2021. Summer 2024 it stopped working. Unit has a 5 year warranty. We were never provided with the manual or warranty, it was shoved inside the outside unit. They sent a tech out on 6/1, quoted $2485 for repair related to duct cleaning, dryer vent cleaning, gas burner cleaning, & new filter system. She said she tested the unit and there was NO leak in the refrigerant. She said it would be working by morning and if not, to call back & they would be “out first thing”. Temp inside the home 88°, on 6/2. Called again in am, no one arrived until about 4 PM. The tech apologized for the poor service the day before, said that tech was not HVAC certified and should never have been sent out. He quoted us $1700 to test for refrigerant leak, and I asked if there were any other options. He called mgr and said “oh I forgot about this other nitrogen test for we can do for about $700.”. He clearly stated it was either a problem with the installation or a problem with the unit, & either way, we should not be held liable for any charges. Despite this, no work would be done until we paid him $725 on top of the $112 we paid earlier in his visit for the diagnostic. No answers that day. 6/3 we again called, temps inside in the high 80s. No one came that day. 6/5, they called to say a mgr was on his way for electrical testing. Valerie took my complaint re: $725 charge and said she would file it with accounting for review & would fill out a client concern form, which should result in a call from Karen. Still no call from Karen. A manager and another tech came to visit and put refrigerant in our system with some kind of dye, saying this would find the leak and would schedule with us within a weeks time to come back. 6/11 the temp starts rising, up to 79 at this time. Called 2x today, got answering service both times, no answers on a call back. Called Lennox on 6/2 for troubleshooting and log the situation. case number 03562977. representative advised 2nd opinion.

  

  Business response

  06/12/2024

  I see that unit was installed in 2021, however I don't see any communication from client requesting the manual or warranty information. This is usually provided at time of install but we would not be aware it wasn't received without notification from the customer. I also don't see any reports of concerns with how the unit was installed. All of our technicians are HVAC certified. The $725 was for a leak detection which was needed since the unit was not functioning properly and the diagnostic that was done showed concern of a leak. 6/4 I spoke with Jessica as she was the listed homeowner and advised of our service manager to come out and do an electronic leak detection on 6/5 which she agreed with and was done at no charge. No leak was detected and we added 8 pound of refrigerant to the unit that day, along with dye, so we could schedule a return to do an ultraviolet leak detection test. All was done at no charge to the customer. The follow up visit was scheduled with Jessica yesterday 6/11 and is scheduled for 6/21 which is the date that the homeowner chose. This upcoming appointment is also being done at no charge to the customer. At this point I clarified with Jessica what relation Libby was to her and she confirmed spouse, which allows us to communicate openly with her. I asked Jessica if she wanted me to call Libby since she is the one that had reached out for an update and she advised she would fill her in, so no call was made. After coming in this morning and seeing another call after hours from Libby, I called and left her a voicemail this morning to follow up with my apologies on the lack of communication to her. I also updated their profile in our system to identify Libby as a spouse so she does not run in to further difficulties. Our hope is to have the issue resolved next week after the ultraviolet leak detection test.

  Customer response

  06/12/2024

  Complaint: 21836599
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Two of your techs, Charity and Nicholas, told me it was “standard practice” to leave the manual and warranty inside the machine. Is this true or false? Your wording in the reply makes it seem like a surprise to you. 
  One of your techs communicated that Charity “had no idea what she was doing and never should have been sent out on an HVAC call”, so I remain confused on that issue due to your reply.
  The miscommunication about calls and call backs seems resolved, we are at Jess’ father’s funeral today and I will try to return your call asap.
  I was told by Nicholas the $725 would be refunded. I was told by Valerie a customer complaint would be filed when I called to follow up. No action until I filed with BBB. 

  and STILL our home remains in the 80s.  We were told no leak, then yes leak, then more testing, etc etc etc. I want to have functioning AC, please and thank you. 

  Libby 

  
  Regards,
  
  Libby Jarka

  

  Business response

  06/13/2024

  I spoke with Libby on the phone yesterday and cleared up the confusion on the owner's manual and warranty paperwork. The appointment that was set for next week with Jessica has been rescheduled to today due to the system no longer cooling again. I have briefed the tech and the service manager as well. We are truly hoping to find a resolution to the issue today. I will continue to be in communication with Libby and Jessica  to help facilitate repairs and a resolution. Thank you

  Customer response

  06/17/2024

  Complaint: 21836599
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  Thank you for your attention to this. The remaining issue is the $725, which again, we were told would be refunded because the problem was either A) installation or B) product, which would be covered under warranty. We were told there was a minuscule leak, but the cause was not yet identified.

  Regards,
  
  Libby Jarka

  

  Business response

  06/18/2024

  I have continued open communication with the customer and have advised I would refund the $725 in good faith since the tech advised there would be no cost. Refund has been processed through the card they paid with, and I will follow up one last time on Thursday to ensure unit is still functioning appropriately.

• Initial Complaint

  03/13/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  They were hired to check furnace an insulation. The number of the lockbox was given to them. Only 2 other person knew it. Someone proceeded to use it and squat in the house using drugs and staying there. The police took report. There was furnace glue on the couch etc etc Lion wanted the ***** for the rest of the work they did not do. I told them I would settle for half. *****. Sine I didnt want them in the house again doing drugs which police think are fentanyl. There deny everything and I dont want them back

  

  Business response

  03/13/2024

  All work was completed that the customer agreed to have done. At no point has she advised that work was unfinished. Initial visit was on 11/27/23 with following appointment on 12/1/23 to complete the work. On 12/4/23, customer called in and went to our call center where she advised she wanted to speak to a manager but gave no details as to what the concerns were, and no mention of police involvement or any illegal activity. A call was made to customer on the same day by the ***************** manager who left a voicemail. A second attempt to reach the customer was made on 12/20/23 where another voicemail was left. On 12/27/23 customer emailed in expressing she wanted to speak t oa manager and if she didn't hear from someone she would be forced to file a police report- still no indication given of what the issue was. On 12/28/23 the ***************** manager called a third time and left another voicemail, an email was also sent to the client in an effort to make contact.

  On 1/2/24 the project manager for the job made contact with the customer on a separate request and was advised of the situation. Customer was advised to call in and speak with the ***************** manager. Customer called in and was transferred to me. AT this point, customer accused our team of doing drugs in the home, laying in a bed, and leaving a mess. When asked, she also advised she had pictures of our technicians in the home and the photos were dated and time stamped. I immediately advised her to file a police report for her protection, and requested she email the photos in for review so we could address the concerns directly. 

  Customer opted to come in person with a copy of the photos for us. I advised I would make copies and return the originals to her, but she stated she had two copies so we could keep them. Looking at the photos, they were not dated or time stamped as originally indicated, nor were there any people in the photos at all, let alone our technicians. Photos were of an unmade bed, a pill on the floor (?), and a white substance she believes was a crushed pill. Other photos consisted of a soda bottle left behind, a tape measure left behind.

  Since none of these photos show proof of our team conducting themselves in an improper manner, I called the customer on 1/8/24 and left a voicemail to advise that we would address the concerns of cleanliness and respecting customer property to all field technicians, but since no actual proof of our team acting inappropriately, then we could not rightfully discipline. 

  On 1/12/24 I called again to follow up and left a voicemail. 

  On 1/15/24 I called to follow up on her concerns and also to discuss the balance due. No answer so left a voicemail

  2/1/24 Customer called in to address her balance. She wanted to pay less than half of her balance due ($1400). She claimed she wanted to pay only this amount due to other costs she felt she needed to pay to secure the home. Due to potential damage on a couch in the home, I offered to deduct $231, bringing her balance from $2981 down to $2750, if she provided payment at that time. She AGREED to this, but then advised she wanted to send a check in and not pay by credit card over the phone. I advised that I would note the account that when the check came in, we would apply the discount at that time. No check was ever sent. 

  On 2/6 she called in and advised we could just charge the card on file. A return call was made to her and a voicemail was left advising her we do not keep credit card information on file, so she would need to call in to provide card information.

  Just this week, she spoke with our accounting department where she again advised she only wanted to pay $1400 (less than half of her balance due)

  We have been diligent in our attempts to work with this customer to resolve her concerns. All calls went to voicemail and a long period of time went by before we were even advised of what the concerns actually were. On two occasions she advised she would make payment, then did not follow through on that payment. 

• Initial Complaint

  12/27/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Sales and Advertising Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I called Lion Home Service to schedule an appointment for an estimate on the installation of an EV electrical set up ** the garage. On 12/8/2023 a certified electrician arrived for the estimate. He looked at the electrical box, the garage and the Tesla charger to put together an estimate for the job. I agreed to pay half $1092.50 on 12/8/3023. We set a date to install on 12/13/2023. He said it would take 1 full day. Another electrician arrived on 12/13 and said the first one was no longer there. He started the job but didnt finish and needed to come back 12/14. That night I realized I couldnt close the garage door. He had unplugged all electricity to the garage. I had to manually close the garage, I had 3 freezers full of meat unplugged. As well as my hot tub. I had to pay for a charge because I couldnt even charge my car with the regular plug in. The electricity did not come back up until 12/15. On 12/15, the electrician stated I would need to pay for an $800 transformer on top of the original estimate. He said he would come back that afternoon, never showed up. He called and said he would finish 12/18. He called on 12/18 and said he was the only electrician and wouldnt be able to finish the job on 12/18. I received a call from the office on 12/19 and the soonest I could get the job finished would be 12/29. Nothing has changed. They have breached the contract by not getting it completed as they said they would. I would just like my money back so I can find another company that wont give me the runaround. I received a call today 12/22 from *****, who didnt want work with me and was not helpful whatsoever. I think Ive been quite patient with this company but ** simply asking for a refund, please.

  

  Business response

  12/27/2023

  At the time of the call with *****, the customer was advised that she would not be responsible for the additional $800 for the transformer as the project was not priced out correctly. We are willing to complete the work, along with the installation of the transformer for her. Although she was initially advised that we would not be able to complete the job until 12/29, when ***** spoke with her, she was advised we could get out there right after the holiday, and before the 29th. We did apologize for the frustration of the ongoing work due to changes in staffing, but client refused to have our other electrician out to complete the work, even when advised it would only be a few hours of work as confirmed by that electrician. Since work has been started, we cannot provide the refund, but we are still willing to complete the work, include the transformer, for the original pricing of $2185, to which she has paid half. If she would like the work completed at this time, we are happy to do so.

  Customer response

  12/28/2023

  Complaint: 21049136
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Lion Home Service has breached the initial contract by not completing the installation by the completion date, as of Wednesday, December 13, ************************************************** 1 business day as originally promised.  Therefore, I am demanding a full refund.

  The EV Charger has not been installed, in fact nothing has changed after 2 1/2 days.  I have gotten nothing but lies and empty promises with the runaround from this company.  *************** and said it would take another couple of hours but she has no idea.  The electrician himself told me it would take another day to finish the project.  Just another lie!!!

  I have already hired another electrician to help me with this installation and will let everyone i know about the very poor service this company has to offer.  I will never give this company another dime of my money.

  Regards,
  *************************

  

  Business response

  01/04/2024

  I am able to remove the balance due since we are not able to return to complete the work, however we cannot process a refund as work has already been completed.
  

  We have replaced all the old wiring from the overhead connection from the house to the panel (about 50 feet of piping). This was part of the original scope of work, however was listed as up to 30 feet, so additional work was done outside of the scope at no additional charge.

  We added a new breaker to pull the additional 50 amps- this was also outside of the original scope of work and not charged to the customer.

  We corrected a tangle of wires, cleaned it up and added a new junction box where it comes into the house, the junction box was part of the original scope of work.

  The two items outlined above as part of the original scope of work comes out to a total of $970.00. Customer has paid a total of $1092.50

  I am happy to return the difference of $122.50 and remove the balance for work not completed as mentioned above

  
  

  Customer response

  01/04/2024

  Complaint: 21049136
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

  I had to hire another certified and more qualified electrician to complete the install.  For the life of him, he could not understand what you're less than adequate electrician was doing for 2 1/2 days.  He estimated approx $200 worth of parts replaced, which just proves how overcharged this company will rake a single female over.  My electrician went to ********** and I paid for the replacement parts (receipt included).  It's quite obvious, Lion Home Electrician dillydallyed around for 2 1/2 days and I'm suppose to pay for his insufficient work?  Let's face it, your electrician did not know what he was doing and that's why he had to have another electrician come by on the 3rd day and it still didn't get done.   I paid money for a qualified electrician that was suppose to complete the install in one business day and I shouldn't have to pay for insufficient work that was going to end up taking another day on top of the 2 1/2 days work, not to mention the inconvenience of no electricity in my garage for 2 1/2 days, causing me to have to pay to charge my car elsewhere.  I am rejecting your measly payout!

  Regards,
  
  *************************

  Customer response

  01/08/2024

  Lion Home Service did not send me a copy of the invoice I originally agreed with.  I paid half upfront like they wanted me to but never sent me a receipt, another proof of poor service.  The lack of communication has caused great distress in my daily life.  I sent you the receipt I had to pay another licensed electrician to complete this requested installation.  

  Customer response

  01/09/2024

  Receipt added

  Customer response

  01/10/2024

  I know this is just a screenshot of what he charged me but he didn't give me a receipt.  I did pay him an extra $100 on the labor and whatever the cost of ********** was. Thank you

  Customer response

  01/18/2024

  THANKS FOR NOTHING!  I DON'T KNOW WHY I EVEN THOUGHT YOU COULD HELP!! YOU PEOPLE ARE COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SORRY I WASTED MY TIIME THINKING YOU COULD HELP RESOLVE THIS ISSUE!!!!!!!!!!!  FUCKING WASTE OF MY TIME!!!!! WHAT GOOD ARE ANY OF YOU!!!!! I WILL LET EVERYONE ONE KNOW THE LION HOME SERVICE ***** AND SO DOES THE BBB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• Initial Complaint

  12/11/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Lion sent a completely unqualified electrician to service my electrical panel. The indoor panel had minor damage. Since he didn't know what he was doing he ended up replacing the indoor panel and outdoor panel after sending me four different quotes. I should have told them that to leave immediately but I had contacted a few electricians without luck and really needed the job done. The house was without electricity for 4 days because he said that the inspector was not available on weekends (they are). When the inspector did come, they were flabbergasted with the work that had been done and completely rejected it all. Lion had to send out someone competent to fix all the mistakes. More days without electricity. Lion set up a 12 month payment plan but never charged me. Four months after the work was done, I received a letter saying that Lion was going to put a lien on my house if I didn't pay, even though they had never billed me (and they sent this letter to the wrong address). I contacted Lion and their customer service was worse than their electrical work. Karen Smith from Lion repeatedly threatened me with sending me to collections as I was trying to argue my case with them. She also refused to provide me with the general managers contact information. Overall the worst experience I've ever had with any contractor. My main issue is with the unqualified person they sent to my house. Electrical work is dangerous and people could have been killed. Lion Express zero remorse about this and when I brought up that they clearly have a bad process that lead to this, they basically said things were working as intended. They should not be allowed to work on anyones fine without a strict audit.

  

  Business response

  12/12/2023

  Providing multiple estimates for proposed work is a standard practice for us in order to give options to clients. This allows clients to choose the option that best meets their needs and budget. The home was without power for 4 days- day 1 being the day we started work; day 2-3 was the weekend, and day 4 was when the inspection occurred after work was completed. To OUR knowledge, inspectors do not work the weekends and it is not common operation for them to do so. Our permit coordinator works very closely with multiple towns and counties for inspections and weekend inspections are not a normal occurrence. The 12 month "plan" he references is 3rd party financing which the client needs to accept once the work is completed. We have no control over this, other than to notify the customer when payment has not been received (in this case the financing not being accepted so it can process and we get paid through the finance company). There is no bill that would come from us since it is financed, and the letter is a general letter advising of the actions that may be taken if the payment process isn't fulfilled; not unique to this customer and is a general letter that goes out to all customers with a past due balance. During email correspondence with the customer, no threats were made as it was just clarifying the steps that would be taken if the financing was not accepted for payment on his end. 
  The General Manager was notified of his concerns, but name and number of the GM is not something freely given out to any customer. 
  Power was shut off at time of work, so although I agree that electrical work can be dangerous, all work was done with power turned off and there was no danger to any person in the home. A second/different electrician was sent in an effort to provide the best service, as well as meet the request of the customer to not have that same electrician out to the home. 
  I have attached a copy of the letter sent regarding past due balance. The email string is too large to attach, so I will forward to my contact at the BBB to attach manually.

• Initial Complaint

  11/16/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  We had a Daikin Furnace installed by Lion on February 8, 2023. Since that time, we have had 2 other heating companies come out to repair this furnace. Both said it was installed incorrectly and we have paid approximately $1500 so far for the repairs. Lion said only if THEY come to look at it, we won't get any sort of refund. We don't want them messing up anything else! We also had a steam humidifier installed - they took out our old funace and humidifier (stating that the humidifier would not work with their system), both of which were working fine but we were trying to be proactive because the old furnace was 17 years old. Today, we had someone out to fix the humidifier because it wasn't working. We were informed by this company that it wasn't working because it had never been programmed! And it had a dirty filter in it! How can that be?? Obviously, they put in a used humidifier and we're wondering about the furnace also now. When I called Lion, I was told that we should have had it inspected by the Town of Johnstown...What?? I knew nothing about this! I called the Town of Johnstown and was told that the company was supposed to have it inspected. Not only is this company incompetent, they are also very unethical. We definitely want a refund on the $3,386.00 humidifier that is used and was never programmed to work!

  

  Business response

  11/16/2023

  Unfortunately, we have not had the opportunity to assess the furnace or the steamer that were installed because the client had not called us to advise of any issues. Since the install in February, we did not receive any calls advising of issues with either unit. We have called out to the customer, and been to her residence for other work unrelated to this, since then and no mention of any issues with the furnace or steamer were mentioned. We cannot take the word of other companies advising things were "installed incorrectly" and we cannot provide a refund for work done by other companies when new equipment would be covered under our guarantee. If it was installed incorrectly, then having us come back out to assess and correct any issues, would have been done at no cost. We do not install used equipment, as we do not have the warehouse capacity to store used equipment nor could we warranty/guarantee said equipment. The steamer is attached to the furnace; if the furnace is running it is pushing air through the filter on the steamer whether it is programmed or not. Customer also advised on our recorded call today that the company that worked on the humidifier admitted that they don't install that brand, so I will question the validity of them saying it was installed incorrectly. We do not inspect our own installs as inspections are through the city or county. A letter was mailed to the client in April advising of the need to get the unit inspected. Nothing we have done is incompetent or unethical, we just had not been given the opportunity to verify and rectify any installation concerns. The customer did call in on 10/30/23 after 5 PM to advise of an issue with the furnace and an appointment was scheduled for same day/emergency service. When dispatch called to advise her we had 3 jobs ahead of her, she immediately requested we cancel the appointment because she had someone else on the way already. We still did not have the opportunity to assess the unit. Due to this, we cannot refund the requested amount as the unit is not used and we did not have the opportunity to investigate the issues. 

  Customer response

  11/16/2023

  The furnace was installed in February, 2023. We had Lion come out on 6/22/23 to drain our hot water tank. At that time, all we needed was to have it drained and serviced and the valve ended up being broken - the technician, unbeknownst to us, had cleaned the water up with one of our good bathroom towels and thrown it in a closet downstairs that we rarely go into so obviously, we wouldn't see it. Since it was summer, we didn't realize there was anything wrong with the furnace or humidifier. On July 26th, we noticed there was hot air coming out of the front of the furnace.  Since we couldn't trust Lion, we called someone else.  We knew the dampers weren't opening and closing correctly on the furnace between zones because the Lion technician told me he had done the best he could but wasn't sure they would work. So, this new company fixed the air issue and the dampers.  When the furnace completely shut down on October 30, 2023, I called Lion because the furnace was under warranty.  It took over an hour for Lion to return my call and when they did, I was told there were 3 others in front of me.  It was already 7 pm and who knows how long it would take for them to show up!  There was no mention of any appointment! I said I would try someone else as it was getting colder.  This second company (different from the one that fixed the first problems) showed up within a half hour and told us the blower motor had gone out!  Already?? We never had anything like this happen with our first furnace that lastest 17 years. He ordered a new one and was back at 8 am the next morning so we could get some heat after a very cold night.  Both companies remarked that the furnace had been incorrectly installed, not to mention they said that no company uses duct sealant instead of silicone tape!  If the furnace ever had to be taken apart, it would be like having to bore through cement, according to them.  I never said the steamer was installed incorrectly.  All I said was that it wasn't working.  We had asked the second company to please fix it since they had fixed the furnace.  Even if the steamer wasn't ever programmed, which it should have been, would the filter get that dirty?  The air filter isn't even dirty.  More importantly, why wasn't it programmed??  And the technician today actually called the company that made the steamer in order to fix it and specifically asked if a program could have gotten erased to which the company told him absolutely not.  So, now we have at least three strikes against Lion with all of these issues and they want to know why we won't let them come back and try to fix something?? Really??  After all this??  Even if we did, we'd have to monitor and video their every move.  We don't have time to babysit technicians.  Then when I called Lion today about the steamer, I was asked about the inspection.  What inspection??   No mention was EVER made about getting an inspection from the Town of Johnstown.  I received something from Lion in April - it was a permit but I didn't notice the fine print that said we needed a final inspection or an expiration date.  Why wouldn't the Lion technicians TELL us that we needed to get a final inspection?  When I called the Town of Johnstown about this, I was told that the company usually does this.  NOT LION!  So we have an inspection on Monday since NO ONE ever mentioned having to get one.  For all of these reasons, we do not want Lion coming into our home to damage or destroy anything else. We don't want this steamer, since it's not working properly, and we would be happy to return it to them in order to get the refund.  We want a steamer, but one that works and someone to put it in that will actually program it!  That isn't Lion.  

  

  Business response

  11/20/2023

  Unfortunately, without the opportunity to assess the furnace or the steamer in a timely manner we cannot offer a refund. The furnace was working after the initial install in February when it would have needed to be running and operating at capacity. When the first concern occurred, we were not given the opportunity to assess and repair. After the water heater visit, we called to verify the visit went well- we spoke with the client who confirmed the visit went well and no issues. At no time was anything mentioned about water being cleaned up with a towel. Regarding the visit for 10/30/23, the recorded call clearly states that she was being booked for an emergency visit, the dispatch fee was being waived because she was a member and that he couldn't give her an exact time because it was after hours; so there was awareness and confirmation of the appt being booked. When our dispatcher called to advise her of the situation (3 other no heat situations in front of hers) she advised they already had another company on the way, not that she needed to find another company. 

  I understand she has frustrations, but without the opportunity to assess the units, we cannot take another company's word on it being installed "incorrectly".  The customer received the permit paperwork and the information to schedule the inspection. We do not schedule the inspection as we would be a middle man trying to coordinate schedules between the town inspector and the customer when it is best to have them speak to each other for scheduling convenience and efficiency. 

  We cannot provide a refund, especially in the amount of thousands of dollars, without being able to look at the unit and make corrections under our guarantee even once. With multiple other companies having worked on the units since install, we also cannot confirm how it was installed and what was done by the other companies. 

  Customer response

  11/20/2023

  We are not asking to have the furnace refunded.  We've already paid an additional $2000 to repair the furnace.  We are asking for a refund for the steamer humidifier, which is still not working and cost us $3,386 for Lion to install it.  

  Regarding the guy that supposedly drained the water heater, he came upstairs with water all over him!  He said he cleaned it up but we didn't discover the hidden towel until much later.  Neither of us recall anyone calling to verify how the visit went but as I said, we didn't discover the towel until later so we wouldn't have known about it to inform Lion. How the water heater got broken is another story that we really don't know how it happened.  Basically, if Lion personnel ever comes into your home, you need to videotape and stand to watch them the entire time in order to see what exactly was done, which we would have to do if we allowed them into our house again.  Very time consuming!

  Regarding the furnace inspection, we were told by the Town of Johnstown that the inspection should be scheduled by the company installing it.  I followed up by calling a few random furnace companies and I was told by all of them that they scheduled the inspection because that was part of installing a new furnace.

  Regarding the call on 10/30/23, I already explained that the after hours calling center said someone from Lion would call me back.  Because it took over an hour for Lion to get back to me, I called other companies just to see if anyone could get to our house soon - it was already 7 pm.  Who knows when Lion might have gotten around to our house after their other 3 ahead of us?  One of the other companies could get someone out immediately so we opted for them.  Why should we wait into the late hours of the next morning to have Lion possibly come to our aid??

  We are left with some really important questions that we would like Lion to address :  On what basis did Lion select the size and model of the furnace they installed?  In addition, we would like to know if it is common practice at Lion to use duct sealant to attach the furnace to the upper unit?  If they can't answer these questions correctly, then we'll know that they weren't competent to install a furnace in the first place.

  Customer response

  11/21/2023

  Complaint: 20881562
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  We are not asking to have the furnace refunded.  We've already paid an additional $2000 to repair the furnace.  We are asking for a refund for the steamer humidifier, which is still not working and cost us $3,386 for Lion to install it.  
  
  Regarding the guy that supposedly drained the water heater, he came upstairs with water all over him!  He said he cleaned it up but we didn't discover the hidden towel until much later.  Neither of us recall anyone calling to verify how the visit went but as I said, we didn't discover the towel until later so we wouldn't have known about it to inform Lion. How the water heater got broken is another story that we really don't know how it happened.  Basically, if Lion personnel ever comes into your home, you need to videotape and stand to watch them the entire time in order to see what exactly was done, which we would have to do if we allowed them into our house again.  Very time consuming!
  
  Regarding the furnace inspection, we were told by the Town of Johnstown that the inspection should be scheduled by the company installing it.  I followed up by calling a few random furnace companies and I was told by all of them that they scheduled the inspection because that was part of installing a new furnace.
  
  Regarding the call on 10/30/23, I already explained that the after hours calling center said someone from Lion would call me back.  Because it took over an hour for Lion to get back to me, I called other companies just to see if anyone could get to our house soon - it was already 7 pm.  Who knows when Lion might have gotten around to our house after their other 3 ahead of us?  One of the other companies could get someone out immediately so we opted for them.  Why should we wait into the late hours of the next morning to have Lion possibly come to our aid??
  
  We are left with some really important questions that we would like Lion to address :  On what basis did Lion select the size and model of the furnace they installed?  In addition, we would like to know if it is common practice at Lion to use duct sealant to attach the furnace to the upper unit?  If they can't answer these questions correctly, then we'll know that they weren't competent to install a furnace in the first place.
  
  Regards,
  
  Susan Manning

  Customer response

  11/21/2023

  We had the inspection on the furnace today, which, of course, didn't pass.  We need information from Lion so we can try to get this furnace to pass inspection so we called Lion at 10:38 a.m. today and spoke with Alice, who said she would have the service department call us back shortly.  So far, shortly means more than 5 hours as we have not heard from anyone yet!  

  

  Business response

  11/21/2023

  We are in the process of getting the inspection report from the town. Johnstown uses a third party company to do the inspections so we do not have immediate access to the report. I cannot comment on the results without seeing them first. The auto-notification from the town advised we should have a response within about 1 business day, so hope to have the report tomorrow and will respond at that time.

  Customer response

  11/27/2023

  Complaint: 20881562
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  For the second time since having this furnace put in by Lion in February, 2023, it stopped working tonight - it's 9 degrees outside!!  For 16 years, we never had any trouble with our old furnace- We're not sure how badly Lion messed up in installation, but now we're looking at asking for a full refund so we can have a reputable company install a furnace that works!  Ridiculous!!
  
  Regards,
  
  Susan Manning

  

  Business response

  11/27/2023

  As with the humidifier, no refund can be provided as we never had the opportunity to assess the furnace or humidifier or to repair under warranty/Lion guarantee. We are still waiting on the inspection report from the town, as there is a delay due to the holiday. We have reached out again today looking for an update or the report itself and can follow up on this complaint as soon as we have that information. At that point, we will likely offer to come out and make any repairs to pass inspection, but since the client has had multiple other companies out to service the units, we cannot offer a refund. We have no information on how or what they found that they are deeming it "installed incorrectly". Regardless, because they have serviced the units multiple times and we have not been given the opportunity to address it ourselves, no refund will be provided.

  Customer response

  11/27/2023

  I just got off the phone with Karen Smith from Lion, who basically told me that unless we allow Lion to come into our house, they will not do anything even though we have a non working humidifier steamer and a furnace that has quit working twice in less than a year and has not passed inspection. I told her they have messed up the two times we allowed them in our home and one of their employees actually said he did the best he could do so there’s no reason to have them try to fix something that they already said they’ve done the best at! The inspector said to have another company fix the things that didn’t pass the inspection and have Lion pay for it but Karen said they would not so this furnace will never pass inspection then. The inspector actually told us that he’s inspected over one thousand furnaces and he’s never seen the cement type stuff that they used instead of using silicone tape that 3 companies have told us they should have used. And they put in the wrong sized piping, according to the Daikin installation book. Lion is very incompetent, which is why we don’t want them in our home to destroy anything else. We are at an impasse unless they pay us for damages we’ve already incurred in trying to get a working furnace. All we originally wanted was a refund for the humidifier that wasn’t programmed when they installed it so it has never worked but now we’ll have to pay someone to get this cement off the furnace on top off the already almost $2500 in repairs from their negligence. We just want what’s fair but Lion is not a fair company. 

  Customer response

  11/28/2023

  I have attached the bills that Lion has charged us except for the water heater draining, in which the Lion person broke the nozzle and had to replace it then mopped up the water with a towel that he stashed in a closet and we didn't find for a couple of weeks, which is why we didn't want to deal with them again.  I have also attached the bills we've incurred so far by 3 different companies.  One company put in the damper motors that Lion told us he couldn't do, saying he did the best that he could, the next company's bills for replacing the blower motor when our furnace stopped working in October and it was an emergency visit (Lion had 3 other people in front of us and didn't call us back for over an hour but this company could come immediately), and the third company that came when the furnace stopped again on 11/25/23.  That company gave me instructions on trying to get the snow away from the tubes coming out of the house, which I did at midnight with 6 degree temperatures, then instructed me to turn the furnace off and back on.  The furnace came back on but we had him come back on 11/26/23 because we wanted to know why it stopped the night before.  He only charged us $80 on a Sunday and was here 4 hours but he will return next week to put in the correct 3" pipe that should have been put on in the first place, according to the Daikin manual, which, by the way, Lion did NOT leave us an owner's copy for the furnace so we had to look it up online.  Next week's visit will be approximately $400 to replace the 2" pipe and shorten it, according to the manual, from 5 ' to 1 '.  Had Lion technicians read the manual before installing our furnace, we wouldn't have to have another company do this.  Hopefully, this will prevent the pressure build up that stopped the furnace from working over the weekend with 6 degree temperatures!  The second company also spent 4 hours here in trying to fix the steamer humidifier that we paid Lion almost $4000 for but his charge was minimal as well for that time, which we appreciated.  The steamer humidifier has yet to work as it was not programmed by Lion.  We do not want this humidifier as the 3 companies that did the repairs do not recognize this brand.  It also came with a dirty filter so it was probably not new to begin with, so we'd like a refund for sure on this! As we've stated numerous times, we DO NOT want Lion to come into our house again.  It takes trust to allow someone into our home and we do not trust this company at all.  They've proven to us on the two times they were here that they are not to be trusted and are incompetent.  We're still trying to fix all the mistakes they made!  We went 16 years without a worry about our furnace or humidifier and now we're constantly worried that our furnace will stop working again as it has twice in the last two months.  Just doing this paperwork, which has taken me one and a half hours, is time that I can't recoup, not to mention all of the time and stress of having other people in our house to assess the problems and make necessary repairs.  I've had 3 sinus surgeries and really need a working humidifier but we are going back and forth with Lion in getting a refund so we can get a working humidifier.  I've been using manual humidifiers in the time being.  This furnace has also not passed inspection as you can see from the report.  All of the companies and this inspector don't know what kind of caulking (Mastic or Pookie) Lion used on this furnace and they all have said that eventually, we will have to go into the places where this concrete like caulking is so we'll need a drill or something to get rid of it so that will be another expense on our part.  The way this caulking has been applied has sealed the door that allows access to A/C unit directly attached to the furnace.  They all asked why silicone tape was not used??  The inspector actually said that he's inspected over 1000 furnaces and has NEVER seen anything like this! He told us to call another company to have these items that don't pass inspection fixed, then bill Lion for it.  If Lion would refund the humidifier and money we've had to spend to get these repairs done (keep in mind that we'll have another big expense next week with the new piping and we have to find someone to take off the concrete caulking), the issue would be resolved.  Please let me know if the attachments did not come through so I can get them to you.

  

  Business response

  11/30/2023

  With the additional information of the invoices from the other companies, and the inspection report, here is my response:

  1- The inspection report does not indicate any issues with the functionality of the furnace or the steam humidifier. The report only states the wiring must be wrapped in conduit and secured- neither of which effect the functioning of the furnace or steamer. The Pookie sealant that we use is used on all of our installs and has passed a multitude of other inspections. His report also states he is only looking for more information and not that it was incorrectly sealed.

  2- First invoice speaks of a damper, which has to do with the ductwork and does not effect the functioning of the furnace

  3- Second invoice gives no explanation on why or how the blower failed and states it was replaced under warranty, which indicates a failed part and not poor installation. It also states that this was for a furnace maintenance and that the furnace is fully functioning and in good working order

  4- Pressure switch failure was a second stage pressure switch and should be a high altitude pressure switch. It is unclear from the invoice if this was replaced or not, but based on the charges it would appear not. For this we can provide a refund of $364 which is what we would charge for the replacement of that part.

  Based on 3 other companies going out on 4 different occasions, and nothing noted about the "poor install" the customer is referring to being mentioned, we cannot provide any further refund than the $364.00

  Customer response

  12/01/2023

  Here is our response:

  1. The inspection report does not indicate any issues with the functionality of the furnace because we had other companies fix the issues when it stopped working!  The wire that is exposed is a violation of state code, because it is hanging from 8 ft down the side and front of the furnace but we will have it wrapped in conduit by another company because Lion failed to follow state code.  The Pookie sealant (which the inspector has NEVER seen before) restricts getting into a panel that we will need to get into for the air conditioner.  This panel will be ripped to shreds when we try to remove the sealant so we will have to purchase another part in order to have a working furnace.

  2. First invoice speaks of a damper because we have a two zone system.  It doesn't affect the functioning of the furnace but has a large effect on warming the house because the damper would either only put heat on the top floors of the house or only on the basement floor of the house.  We would like all of the parts of the house warmed.  This is something furnace installers should understand and know how to install, as it all worked great before Lion installed the new furnace.

  3. The blower motor was loose, which probably caused it to fail.  Once again, the furnace totally failed and was only in good working order once it was serviced.  The motor was under warranty but the labor was not.  

  4. Pressure error occured because the Daikin manual said a 3" pipe should have been installed instead of 2" piping.  For the second time in less than 2 months, the furnace stopped working again, requiring us to get emergency help at 11:30 p.m. in 6 degree weather! The piping will be replaced at a cost of $400.

  Lion failed to mention a steamer humidifier that we paid almost $4000 for and has not functioned since they installed it in February, because, according to the humidifier company that makes it, the humidifier was never programmed.  However, the filter is filthy dirty, which suggests this humifier was used before or a dirty filter was installed.  I have attached pictures of the dirty filter and what a clean filter should look like.  Lion's claim that it got dirty from the air blowing through it doesn't make any sense since it wasn't operational.  The air filter that Lion installed is clean so obviously, the air wasn't that dirty.

  Lion has caused us so much stress and cost us more money than anyone should have paid by making incompetent mistakes putting in a furnace and has made no reference to a $4000 humidifier that has never worked!

   

  Customer response

  12/01/2023

  One more item:  When we removed the dirty filter, there was only one screw holding the unit on.  We found numerous screws all over the floor that Lion failed to clean up but none fit the humidifier so not only do we not have a working humidifier, it's being held up by one screw.  See picture attached.

  Customer response

  12/08/2023

  After 10 months, we have paid to have another company fix the humidifier so it is now working.  We have not received any money from Lion, even though they said they would pay to have the tubing fixed (Lion put in the wrong sized tubing, which caused the furnace to quit working).  We have now paid another company to fix the tubing and would like the money from Lion.  And we still don't have anything signed off by the inspector so this furnace still has not passed the final inspection with the Town of Johnstown.  We extended the permit once and the deadline to have the inspection finalized is January 2, 2024.  We don't know if Lion has provided the needed information that the inspector asked for.  How can we find this out?  

  Customer response

  12/11/2023

  Since we have had no reponse from Lion, we agree to Arbitration.

  Customer response

  12/11/2023

  If Lion will reimburse us $1732.70 (the amount we have paid to get our furnace workable), then there is no need for arbitration.  If they refuse, then we will go to arbitration.

  

  Business response

  12/12/2023

  After 10 months, we have paid to have another company fix the humidifier so it is now working.  We have not received any money from Lion, even though they said they would pay to have the tubing fixed (Lion put in the wrong sized tubing, which caused the furnace to quit working).  We have now paid another company to fix the tubing and would like the money from Lion.  And we still don't have anything signed off by the inspector so this furnace still has not passed the final inspection with the Town of Johnstown.  We extended the permit once and the deadline to have the inspection finalized is January 2, 2024.  We don't know if Lion has provided the needed information that the inspector asked for.  How can we find this out?  

  Our install manager has made an attempt to reach out to the inspection dept of Johnstown with the information on the sealant with no success in contacting the original inspector. Having another company fix the tubing is new information; what was the cost for this? The customer must schedule the inspection, but since she will not allow us in the home to make any repairs, she will need to have the wiring enclosed in flex conduit and secured as the inspection report states before having an inspector out again.

  

  Business response

  12/19/2023

  At this time, the refund we would be willing to provide for this situation would be $500.00

  Customer response

  12/21/2023

  We have not heard anything about the inpection report from Lion!  Have they received it?  We had the inpector here today and the furnace failed for the second time!  Will Lion take any sort of responsibility for all of the payments we've had to make to get a working furnace?  Offering $500 is a drop in the bucket.  Lion is unreliable, unethical, and they shouldn't have a license to operate!  When they replaced our furnace in February, they switched out all but two of our smoke detectors - we didn't have them switch the two downstairs because we had just had them replaced.  But they left the two boxed smoke detectors for us.  Today, we walked into the hallway out to the garage and the smoke detector was hanging by the wires from the ceiling!  It just fell out of the ceiling!  On closer inpection, we saw that there was only one screw holding it up and the unit had come off the screw.  Why would they only secure it with one screw when there are openings for two screws??  It was our steamer unit all over again, being held up by only one screw!  I went to get the two boxes with the smoke detectors that they didn't put up to get an extra screw but neither box had any screws in them AND the tab was pulled off the batteries in both of them so they were beeping as I touched them!  Why would Lion take the tabs out of the batteries on the smoke detectors that they weren't going to install??  This company is SO incompetent!  They should be shut down immediately as we're not the only ones they have taken advantage of. Both inspectors have said that they've never seen any company use duct sealant to seal a furnace.  Lion has no idea what they are doing.  They both said the sealant will be impossible to remove, so we should get compensation for that as well because we will likely have to put in a new furnace when someone tries to remove it.

  We will NOT accept their measly $500.  We have paid over $1700 so far just to get a working furnace! We will be more than happy to go to arbitration as this company needs to take some sort of responsibility for their incompetent actions.  They need to learn that they cannot act like a furnace company because they are not one.

  Customer response

  12/21/2023

  Complaint: 20881562
  
  I am rejecting this response because: They owe us much more than $500.  We have paid over $1700 (I sent copies of receipts so far) just to get a working furnace and it still hasn't passed an inspection yet so we'll have to shell out more money to get it to pass final inspection.  Lion needs to take responsibility for their incompetent actions in not installing a furnace (and now smoke detectors -see previous notes) correctly.  If they won't pay, then we will be happy to go to arbitration.  We definitely have a good case against them and the pictures and inspectors notes for proof.  This is going on a year now and we're sick and tired of dealing with them!
  
  Regards,
  
  Susan Manning

  

  Business response

  01/02/2024

  Better Business Bureau:

  I would like my complaint ID 20881562, to be handled through an Arbitration hearing with BBB.

  Regards,

  Karen Smith

  Customer response

  01/04/2024

  Attached is our signatures for arbitration.  Susan Manning and Mark Manning will attend.

• Initial Complaint

  11/06/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Furnace & AC installation on Oct 13,2023. job not finished due to hole in front of Furnace ( possibly a missing handle for door) I've called several times & have finally been told I need to find out what it is, where to order it ( and at my expense). They don't have a phone or website information for me to contact anyone! In addition the Furnace warranty info for registration of the product has not been made available! According to Kathy ( I believe that's her name) they can't give it to me because they don't know how!! HELP! FINISH THE JOB & SHOW THAT I'M REGISTERED PROPERLY ON MY FURNACE WARRENTY!!!

  

  Business response

  11/06/2023

  The installation of the AC and furnace are complete and both units are fully functioning to our knowledge. As discussed with the client on 10/27/23, we are looking into the missing handle or name plate that goes on the front of the unit. This "hole" does not prevent the functionality of the unit and is for aesthetic purposes only. It is not something that can be easily ordered separately, so we have reached out to the manufacturer to identify what belongs there and how to get a replacement, and will follow up with him once we have the information and/or part so we can return to attach it. All of this information was provided to the client at the time of his call on 10/27/23.
  Regarding the registration for the warranty. This is not a service we provide for mobile home furnace units, which was explained to the client on 10/27/23 as well. There are too many different manufacturers for mobile home furnaces, and because of this we do not provide this as a service. Client was advised to refer to his owner's manual, which he confirmed he had, for registration of the unit. We do not have the ability to register for him, and there is nothing in the estimate or invoice that states we will register the furnace on his behalf.

  Customer response

  11/06/2023

  No such information 10/27,was provided  to me! I ASKED REPEATEDLY AS TO HOW TO PROCEED ON WARRENTY PROTECTION & PRIOR TO INSTALLATION  NOTHING WAS MENTIONED, NO ASSISTANCE ON PHONE NBRS OR CONTACT IN FORMATION WAS PROVIDEED! Nor did they have an inclination to do so!  They simply are lieing!! 

  

  Business response

  11/06/2023

  During my call today with the customer, I provided an appointment to have the name plate attached to the front of the furnace. This will be done tomorrow, 11/7. On the same call, I Googled the furnace manufacturer and provided the website to the customer, along with directions on where to go on the website so he can register his equipment for warranty. During the original call on 10/27 I provided information that was currently available to me, which was that registration information should be in the back of the owner's manual. All concerns should be addressed as of this point.

• Initial Complaint

  10/06/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Date of transaction: September 19, 2023 Agreement: My air conditioning system was not blowing cold air. I called Lion to diagnose the issue and perform a repair that would result in a working AC system.****** spent: $4766 split over two transactions of $2383 Commitment: That the repair had been correctly diagnosed by a certified technician, and that I would have a working AC system after the transaction Result: Indoor unit (the evaporator coil) was replaced. Either this is not where the leak was, or pressurizing it improperly broke the outdoor unit (the condenser coil). Therefore, the repair did not fix the *** It then cost me an additional $3268 to have a different company repair the condenser coil, totaling $8034 in damages.Important details: I have been informed that people with the title "project manager" at Lion Home Service are not EPA certified by a former employee at the company, and are instead salespeople. If that information is accurate, I am concerned that project managers diagnosing HVAC units may qualify as fraudulent activity.Offer to resolve the issue: Lion offered to repair the condenser for roughly $2000. This is less than the competitor charged, but it is unclear to me if this is a significant discount compared to ****** standard rates, or similar to the cost it would've been anyway. I do not consider this a reasonable offer for $4766 in expenses that did not provide the service requested.

  

  Business response

  10/06/2023

  Original visit was on 9/18/2023 where the issue was diagnosed by a certified professional. The cost of $4766 was not only for the evaporator coil, but also included other work that the customer opted to have done. That work included the following: cleaning of the outdoor condenser, pulling and cleaning of the blower assembly, duct cleaning, duct sanitizing, and an active 1 year membership in our TCC program which provided an immediate savings of 15% (a total of $787). Customer is stating a possible leak, however when the work was done refrigerant was removed from the unit and then added back once the work was complete. In this process, a significant leak would have been found. A failure of another part of the unit on another day is not the fault of the previous work, and we cannot guarantee the life expectancy of other parts that were not replaced. In an effort to help resolve the situation, our GM worked with our team to come up with a replacement option at a significant discount, which would have resulted in essentially a new unit all together for much less than the cost of a traditional new unit. When the work was completed, the unit was functioning properly.

  The customer did reach out to us today, requesting a copy of the warranty for the evaporator coil which we will send once we receive confirmation back from the manufacturer if he would still like it. Customer also requested to cancel and have refunded the membership which is a cost of $299. I am happy to refund this in good fait if he would like.  

• Initial Complaint

  07/27/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Unlicensed electrician from Lion Home Services attempted to install 220V service for hot tub and displayed poor workmanship and at least one serious electrical code violations. Business has promised to send another electrician to correct and complete the installation but has not shown up at the time promised. Note thnn wire was direct buried and covered

  

  Business response

  07/28/2023

  We had a licensed electrical apprentice working under a licensed electrician performing the work. Communication as been ongoing with the customer to advise of scheduling needs- it was not a no call/no show situation. We would like more information on where the customer heard the technician was not licensed.

• Initial Complaint

  07/21/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I had a technician come out on June 24th. He tried to fix ac by putting this can like thing on my ac unit. He said if we buy a new unit we will be refunded the service fee and the cost of the part for 6/24. The ac went out 15 minutes after he left. Salesman came out 6/25. We bought a new unit. He put in the paperwork the $347 refund. Installers came out on 6/26 to put in new unit. She saw the refund and said manager will approve it and it will be refunded. Allow 3 days. It’s now 7/21 and still no refund. I spent $8252.22 on new unit, not sure why they can’t refund me my $347 that was promised by the company. I have reached out to them multiple times and still not resolved. Worst business and customer experience ever. If this is not a business practice then they need to tell their technicians not to make promises they have no authority in making. If I new this, I would have went with a different company for my ac unit. Please look into the business practices of Lion Home Services.

  

  Business response

  07/21/2023

  Refund was processed for for $347 this morning and a voicemail was left for the client advising of the refund. The Quality Assurance manager was out of office from 7/1-7/15 and was reviewing the situation already. We apologize for the delayed response and communication should have been better to keep the client up to date on progress of her request. Follow up with the technician is also being done to prevent promising timelines for office actions.

  

  Business response

  08/04/2023

  Thank you for providing proof that you received the refund. We hope this has resolved the issue and we hope to be able to prove to you we are a great company with our client's needs in mind in the future!

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩