Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  01/28/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Date dropped vehicle at Christian **** Automotive: Oct. 20th, 2023 Date picked up vehicle: Jan. 15th, **** BACKGROUND INFO. We towed a ******* ******* to Christian **** to replace blown head gaskets as diagnosed by ******* dealership just 4 days prior (which this car was towed to & from ******* also). Christian **** was approx. $2,000 less to change head gaskets so we elected to use them versus dealership. Car was shut down when overheat warning came on and allowed to completely cool. Car was running just fine, less overheat indication when we dropped it off at Christian ****. There were no external leaks, coolant level was maybe a 1/4 inch low max.ISSUE: Our car was at Christian **** for nearly 3-months to replace head gaskets. During this 3-months they also threw out 2 parts of the engine that prevented them assembling/running it which took 2+ weeks to get replacements. Ultimately they replaced the head gaskets, put the car back together & final step (so I'm told) was for them to add coolant to the cooling system. They called & said while filling the coolant the fluid was significantly leaking from passenger side aft head. Options they gave us were (1) take components and/or heads back off to see if they can repair whatever the issue was we pay for the extra parts/labor, (2) we replace the engine with used or new plus the labor, (3) we pay $1,800 & they give us the car completely reassembled & allegedly as I brought it to them (only with new head gaskets). After 3-months, excuses for why they hadn't or couldn't fix it & losing parts that prevented the car from running, we had lost confidence in Christian **** ability to fix our vehicle. We opted to pay the $1,800 & seek other professional, and possibly, legal help. In the end, we towed them a vehicle that you couldn't tell had any issues. No leaks, ran perfectly until hitting operating temps. They gave us a vehicle that barely starts, has an extreme exhaust lead, sounds like a 1920's engine and undrivable.

  Business response

  02/01/2024

  Customer stated within a couple of weeks of purchasing the vehicle, it overheated.  The car was taken to the dealer and the dealer diagnosed the car with failed head gaskets.  The customer called us for a quote to do the work and they had the car towed from the dealership to our shop.  Our initial quote was $5165.75.
  
  Prior to starting work, the car was not started because of the nature of the problem.  Starting an engine that has overheated and has head gasket issues can result in further damage.  Customer instructed us that the head gaskets had failed, the car had overheated and that the head gaskets needed to be replaced. At the customers direction, we began the process of removing the heads from the engine block. While removing the cylinder head bolts the engine block threads came out with the head bolts.  As the result, the engine block had no threads for the new bolts to secure the head to the engine block.  The engine block is made from aluminum and is very sensitive to overheating issues.  The threads in the engine block came out due to overheating.  We stopped work.  We informed the customer the best course of action was to replace the engine with either a used engine that we could source and install or a new factory engine that only the dealer could supply and install.  If we did the work, we offered to do the used engine replacement job at a discount equal to the cost of the work already performed to that point.  The customer declined to have the engine installed in the car.  We offered to the customer that they pay $1800 for work performed and stop.
  
  The customer did some online research and found a company that makes a kit to drill and tap and helicoil new thread into engine block.  We advised the customer that although we have successfully completed helicoil recently on another make and model car, there is no guarantee this will work in this case because the block has signs that it was overheated and it is an aluminum block that is very sensitive to heat and damage. We informed the customer the best path forward was still an engine.  Although trying the helicoil would increase the total cost of the job from $5165.75 to $5556.20 with no guarantee of success, the customer decided he wanted us to try the helicoil to remake the threads in the engine and try and get it to work.  Once we agreed to try the helicoil route, we stated the following on the repair order:   CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AUTOMOTIVE LAFAYETTE TAKES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR WORK PERFORMED DUE TO THE VERY HIGH FAILURE RATE OF THESE MOTORS FROM THE MANUFACTURER THIS WAS JUST AN ATTEMPT TO SAVE THE ENGINE THAT WAS ALREADY FAILED WHEN WE RECEIVED IT.   
  
  After complete reassembly one of the heads was leaking coolant.   We contacted the customer and informed him that the attempt to save the engine had failed.  We offered the following options to the customer.  Option 1 was to only charge the customer $1800 not the agreed to $5556.20. Option 2 was to source a used engine and to replace the current engine and reduce the cost of the engine replacement job by $1800.  The customer decided on option 1. Customer paid the $1800 and had the car removed from our shop via tow truck. 
  
  During this repair process that took place over several weeks due to waiting on parts and waiting on customer response/decision at various points in the process, a serpentine belt and an a/c line were misplaced.  We replaced both parts with factory new parts from the dealer at no charge to the customer.

  Business response

  02/01/2024

  Customer purchased car as second owner.  Had he been the first owner of the car, all of this work would have been covered under warranty by manufacturer Hyundai.  Customer initially went to the dealer and appealed to them to replace engine.   Dealer declined.  ****** said they would recommend doing the heads and gave him a price with no help offered.  Customer believed he had a bad engine when this process started.  We confirmed the engine was bad when the threads came out with the bolt.  Customer is now trying to hold us responsible for something that he either knew or believed was a failed engine.

  Customer response

  02/01/2024

   
  Complaint: 21211713
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I am formally rejecting the response from Christian **** Automotive (CBA) in Lafayette ******** based on their response is not entirely true and gives a misleading representation as to what actually occurred.  Furthermore, they have either knowingly omitted various facts/details related to this complaint or conveniently forgot to include them.  Due to the length of my detailed responses to CBA's response to my complaint and the time limitation of 30 minutes by this BBB system, I have listed all the reasons for my not accepting it on the attached/uploaded pdf document.  I hope you find this acceptable.  If you have further questions please feel free to reach back out to me as needed.  
  

  Thanks in advance!

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************************

  Customer response

  02/09/2024

   
  Complaint: 21211713
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  COPY/PASTE of businesses (Christian ***** Automotive aka CBA last response with my comments below.

  "Customer purchased car as second owner. [RC 09-FEB-24, this is a true statement as I/we informed CBA of this during initial discussions]

  Had he been the first owner of the car, all of this work would have been covered under warranty by manufacturer *******. [RC 09-FEB-24, another true statement that is publicly available. However I don't see the relevance in the facts of this complaint] 

  Customer initially went to the dealer and appealed to them to replace engine. Dealer declined. [RC 09-FEB-24, this is 100% fabricated on the part of CBA. I/we never asked the dealership to replace the engine. I/we did ask the dealership what the warranty was given we recently purchased the car, knowing ******* warranty changed when transferring ownership but not absolutely certain what the details of it. As explained by ******* the original warranty was 10-year, 100k miles however if the vehicle was sold/transferred to another owner it dropped to 5-year/60k mile warranty. I don't see how CBA can say with absolution what ******* said in the conversation which they were not present for nor part of.  This conversation was between us as the owners of the car and the ******* dealership we initially had the vehicle towed to for a diagnostic evaluation.  CBA simply was not there, nor did I/we ever tell CBA anything of the sort for which they claim. They should stick to the facts, not insert speculation.  

  Dealer said they would recommend doing the heads and gave him a price with no help offered.  [RC 09-FEB-24, Again, more fabrication on the part of CBA.  True the ******* dealership diagnosed the blown head gaskets. The provided an estimate to replace the blown head gaskets as any like business would. I'm uncertain what CBA means by "gave him a price with no help offered" as CBA gave me their initial price to replace the head gaskets and didn't offer any help with that price either.  It just happened to be that CBA estimate was lower than the ******* dealerships estimated price so we went with CBA.]   

  Customer believed he had a bad engine when this process started. [RC 09-FEB-24, Another lie on the part of CBA. As an experience aviation mechanic with over 24 years of engine and mechanic experience, to include completely rebuilding engines myself, if I truly believed what CBA is claiming, why would I take the car in for repair?  If the engine were known or suspected to be "bad" why would anyone take it to have the head gaskets replaced if the whole engine was bad. That simply doesn't make any logical sense.] 

  We confirmed the engine was bad when the threads came out with the bolt. [RC 09-FEB-24, FALSE... the only thing that CBA confirmed when the threads came out with the bolt was just that, the thread came out with the bolt. How does an automotive shop determine if an engine is bad simply by stripped threads from the head bolt? That is ridiculous!  As told directly to me by ****, once they pulled the stripped bolt out of the head, they stopped. **** called me to inform me of the situation and advise of possible next steps before proceeding. To put this into better perspective CBA at this point likely drained/removed the radiator, removed the serpentine belt (the one they lost/threw away), removed the water pump, removed the timing cover, removed the ignition system components attaching to the heads, removed the valve covers and removed the head bolt that came out with the threads. Essentially, CBA stripped/peeled off the stuff that attached to the front of the engine and to the heads. So by doing these things and stopping to update me at this point, they are telling me, a federally licensed aviation mechanic who's worked on his cars all his life, CBA could definitively identify this engine as being "bad" without any further inspecting, diagnosing etc... Nonsense.]   

  Customer is now trying to hold us responsible for something that he either knew or believed was a failed engine."  [RC 09-FEB-24, actually the only thing I'm trying to hold CBA responsible for is giving me/us a car back that was in the same condition as when I brought it to them.  That was, a smooth running engine with NO major exhaust leaks, NO external liquid or coolant leaks.  An engine they tried replacing the head gaskets on (which they supposedly did) and was completely put back together in such a condition that this engine was ready to start in anticipation of a successful head gasket installation and the car was going to be released back to the owner in running condition.  The fact is, CBA stated the car was in this fully anticipated condition.  All they had to do was add the coolant the next day and start the car to check it leaks, normal operation and a safety drive check.  I was supposed to come and pick it up ready to go that next day.  I had full intentions of paying the final bill and driving off.  Instead I got a call from CBA saying the engine has a significant leak coming off the back of the passengers side head.  CBA couldn't identify where it was coming. CBA offered 3 options that have previously been identified in my prior response in this BBB Complaint process.  I had the car picked up from CBA via tow truck and towed to my house after being done with CBA's inadequacies, 3-months of patiently waiting for my/our car, and loss of use of our vehicle.  I/we paid the $1,800 to get it out of their shop.  That's it.  I only wanted what I gave them, nothing more, nothing less.  And CBA's response to that was ****** repeatedly telling me, "I don't know what you expect me to do about that.".    

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************************

  Customer response

  02/22/2024

  To whom it may concern at BBB,

  After reviewing the layout of the of the complaint and seeing how BBB will now display it on the BBB website related to Christian **** Automotive in Lafayette, I would like to change the wording of the desired action we seek from Christian ****. Automotive.  The initial wording said something to the effect of "FIX IT or pay to have a *************** dealership fix it".  I have to admit that response was motivated by months of dealing with this automotive shop (3 months to be exact) and was made hastily out of utter frustration.  After thinking about this with a cool and level head a more appropriate desired action by the business should have been worded as "to put the car back into same condition it was given to them in; i.e. a smooth running engine that had no massive exhaust leaks and no noticeable power loss. Only a coolant leak CBA informed of at the back of the passenger side head." 

  The car we paid $1,800 to get back after 3-months of CBA having it, and trying to fix it, was supposed to have been in a condition of (1) head gaskets were replaced with new, (2) the heavy duty insert kit for the head bolts were installed, (3) before CBA knew of the coolant leak after they replaced the head gaskets and installed the heavy duty inserts, I was called/informed by CBA this car only needed to have coolant added to the cooling system and a safety check drive the next day.  Then we could pick it up as the job was done and car ready to go, we just needed to pay the final bill.  The next day they added the coolant and found it had a significant leak coming from the back of the passenger side head.  CBA called me and presented 3 options.  Again, after 3-months of them having the car, clearly unable to fix the original issue, we opted to pay the $1,800 just to get the car out of CBA's hands.  Keep in mind, this car is supposedly back together in running condition at this point...  We tow the car home because I'm not going to risk overheating the engine to the point of forcing an engine replacement.  We install a new battery so we can start the car and park it in the garage, running it no longer than a minute or so, so as to not let the engine get hot and overheat.  We start the car for the first time, no start.  After two more attempts it finally starts and barely runs at all.  The engine is extremely loud, the engine is smoking right away, it won't rev over ***** rpm (as if the timing was off), the car could not even back up into the garage under its own power.  My wife and two friends had to push it while I steered it trying to drive it up in reverse.  THIS IS NOT AN ENGINE THAT WAS READY TO GO BACK TO THE CUSTOMER AS A FIXED / REPAIRED ENGINE.  I just wanted the car back in the condition we gave it to them.  I will address the coolant leak CBA mentioned elsewhere with the dealership.

  Hopefully that desired outcome can be revised as stated above.  Sorry for the small book I wrote however I thought it was important to explain or quantify what was previously written.  

  Thanks again,

  ******

• Initial Complaint

  07/27/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I took my car to Christian Brothers (Lafayette, *** for some diagnostics. I picked it up at approximately 2:45 PM. at 4:15PM I tried to start my car and it died in the street. I called the company and they refused to take any responsibility or offer any solution that didn't involve me paying them to diagnose the problem. Earlier in the day they diagnosed an exhaust issue. When I called them about my car dying they attempted to assure me that nothing they did would have caused my car to not function. However, what I can state for a fact, is that my car worked fine before dropping it off and after my car was there for 8 hours, and about 1 hour after picking it up, my car no longer works. I gave them the opportunity to make the situation right, but they insisted I pay them more money to prove to me that they didn't cause this. But what is their incentive to acknowledge that something they did to my car caused it to no longer function. It's beyond belief that a business would not be willing to assist in finding a solution to this problem.

  Business response

  07/28/2022

  *********************** brought us his vehicle on ]7/27/22 at around 7:30 am.  When **************** check his vehicl in he expressed the following concerns:  1.  Loud exhaust noise and exhaust smell in cabin of vehicle.  He asked us to check and advise.  He was notified ******** fee for this was $80 and he approve us to do this diagnosis.  2.  A/C blows cold when vehicle is idling.  diag for that A/C is $200.  He did not approive us doing the AD diag so we did not look at it.  3.  We offered a free courtesy inspection to look over the gernall safety condition of the car.  He accepted.  3. *************** stated that his vehicle was slow to accelerate.  We discovered the check engine light was on.  WE advised him that it would be $160  to diagnose the check engine light.  He refused the  service.  4.  *************** stated that both front door locks get stuck in the hot weather and tthe windows barely work.  WE offered to diagnose that problem for $160.  **************** declined.  Guest requested quote to replace the front window motors.  We provided the quote and he declined the repair.    **************** stated that his goal was to make the car last one more year without spending any mony on it.  ************** has been taking his car to ******************* in ******* ******** where they have been resetting his check engine light for him after every visit.   At the time of check in it was decided we will ONLY focus on the exhaust noise/smell complaint he has. The technician diagnosied it and found the flex pipe is broken inside the mesh and causing his loud exhaust noise and exhaust fumes inside the cabin. When the customer was informed of the issue it was decided by him at the time he needed the vehicle and would rescedule to have the exhaust leak fixed at a later date. A few hours afters after pick up ***** called and stated his vehicle was having an issue starting and/or getting it into his driveway. We then explaing we would be happy to take a look at it and that if it was related to the diagnositc we did to find the exhaust leak that we would cover it at no charge to the customer, but if it was unrelated to the exhaust check then there would be diagnostic fee to figure out the issue ***** is experiancing. This option was only setting him up to understand that if we caused something we would fix it and if we did not he would then be responsible for the diagnostic fee. We explainded that we used a "smoke machine" to fill the exhaust through the tailpipe with a very light smoke in order to find the leak and that it is common procedure for this concern and is unlikely that caused anything he was experiencing. The customer then started threating bad reviews and stated "Im going to make your life miserable". attached you will find the invoice with the concerns stating he had a driveability issue when he brought it to us and that it already had a lack of acceleration when it was brought to us. We explainded that the issue causing that and the check engine light is more the likely where we need to start digging to find the issue ***** is experiancing now. He declined the diagnositc fee for that originally at the counter and also over the phone when he called to express his concern with the vehicle not starting. 

  Customer response

  07/28/2022

   
  Complaint: 17634871
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I could go line by line- there are a number of inaccuracies in the businesses response, while much of it is accurate.  Most is a red herrings though.  The fact remains that my car worked fine prior to leaving it at the shop.  Yes, it was slow to accelerate- it's been like that for years, and I expressed that; yes, the check-engine light was on- I explained multiple times that an O2 sensor had triggered it and that it has been on for years.  The only new issue was the exhaust, which is why I brought my car in.  My car drove fine. I had a working vehicle that I relied upon daily for my work and family.  Now, after my car was at your shop for 8.5 hours my car has been rendered a useless piece of metal stranded in my driveway.  I drove that car everyday, as I have for the last ***** days.  I know the car, I know the sounds it makes. There was no indication that it was on it's last leg-- it wasn't about to die before I brought it in.  I know you say that no exhaust diagnostic technique would be the cause of the car to choke and die after backing out of my driveway.  That makes sense to me, too, but I do not believe it was a coincidence that my car was working fine before bringing it in, and now it's dead.  My only option besides hiring an attorney, is to complain online and to the BBB in hopes that you will do the right thing. That wasn't a threat to get you to do the right thing.  I stated that was the only option I could pursue AFTER you refused to resolve the issue.  The right thing is not to make me pay for another diagnostic.  A customer should never have to pay a company to attempt to diagnose an issue that they potentially caused- you are incentivized to determine that your shop was not the cause of the problem and make me pay.  That's absurd. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************

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