Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:09/01/2022

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Owner came out to give estimate, he assured me that he was the most experienced in his field in our area.He inspected the flooring issues, laminate flooring was buckling. He said the cause was due to caulking that was done around the perimeter of the room. He took measurements. Sent an estimate via email. I called owner after receipt of email, asking him if he could tell me if there was anything that he saw or could think of that would increase the cost of his estimate, He assured me no issues. The one thing that appealed to me was all his experience and expertise. We agreed to have him do the job. Boarded our animals booked an arbnb for 4 days the dates that he was able to do the job. Sent him a check for half. His crew arrived, then he called telling me there was hard wood flooring under the laminate and would be an additional $2700.00 to remove it. When I told him we could not afford the additional cost he pulled his crew off the job. We suspect he knew there would be additional costs involved due to the hard wood flooring when he 1st came. But we already gave him half of money. We had to remove the hardwood ourselves. 2 weeks later the install began. Again we left so not to disrupt the workers.They completed the job in 4 days but left a mess for us to clean up. Did not sweep up after themselves furniture was just left up against walls for us to move back to its original place and the install was unsatisfactory. There are tiles that have edges exposed, the response from the owner is that is a product defect. Nothing was said prior to or during the install that there were any issues or concerns with defective tiles. Communication with him once he knew we would remove the wood floor was difficult at best always felt like we were an inconvenience to him. His solution was to come back and try to remove and replace the tiles that have exposed edges but can't guarantee a positive outcome.When expressing our dissatisfaction he referred to his code book and contract.

  

  Business Response

  Date: 09/08/2022

  Yes, I came to your house to give you an estimate. We are an experienced company in the business. When we meet you said you wanted to replace your flooring. I did not do an inspection of the existing flooring, as you were asking for replacement flooring. I definitely did not tell you that it was due to the caulking around the perimeter of the job. I simply gave no reason, as that is not why I was there. You had laminate in your bedrooms and a luxury vinyl in the main area of the home. Yes, I took measurements of the job. Then we had a conversation about the tile you wanted to install as replacement flooring. I went over everything that takes place with the tile and industry standards and specs, as far as size of tile, warpage, lippage, grout joint sizing and how tile is cooked in a kiln and comes out with warped, so that effects ******** and grout joints and lippage, curled corners (upward sometimes and downward at others), and we discussed how rectified edges create lippage due to the industry spec the manufacturer's have in the tolerance. The tiles are not the same size, not the same thickness and they definitely have warpage. This is normal in the industry for the manufacturer's spec. After our conversation and explaining everything about what to expect, I left. I then sent you an estimate a few days later. I agree, you did call and ask "is there any hidden costs?". My response was "No" there is not any hidden costs, as the contract stated exactly what was being done on the jobsite. I agree that we arrived at the agreed upon start date and started doing the demo portion of the job. You received a phone call from me once we discovered that someone had set the luxury vinyl flooring over top of glue down wood flooring. Which is a huge no-no, and would have never expected that at all. I had no way of knowing that you or someone had installed a vapor barrier and luxury vinyl over glue down hard wood flooring. So the unforeseen work was not included in our original agreement and I had no way of knowing it was there. Once we spoke, I did not pull my guys directly off your job. We finished doing the demo and cleaning up and the reason we left was, you Told Us To leave as you would have your husband do the demo and that you did not want us to do the work. I explained everything about what was going on and the unforeseen item that occurred. (The item is unforeseen as I am not able to look through the existing flooring to see it.) So, we mutually agreed that we would pull off your job. I communicated with you multiple times later that same day trying to get everything worked out as I knew you had planned a get away and had put your dogs up. So, we had many discussions that day about working through and rescheduling your job, so we could come back as soon as possible, because we had already removed your other flooring and we are trying to do everything for you, our customer, to get your job installed,  to make it a better experience, as our customers are our priority. I will again say that it was an unforeseen item and I had no way of knowing about the flooring under the flooring! You did not have to remove the hardwood yourselves. You chose to. And the quoted ***** was based upon the entire job being like that, and it was not. So when we talked later that day, I gave you a much lower price, but you once again said you would have your husband do the demo of the glue down wood flooring that was under the luxury vinyl. I'm sorry you feel that we left a mess. we definitely swept and cleaned up after ourselves. We put furniture back to as close to were it was a possible and do not always set it back exactly where it once was, but we try to get it back. The only mess I was aware of was the fact that you overloaded your shelf in the closet in the guest bedroom and it collapsed while we were there working. I made you aware of this and you said it was your fault and that you needed to purge, as you definitely overloaded it. As far as the installation being unsatisfactory, you could not be more incorrect. My response was not that you have defective tile! I never said that! What I did say was that this was all discussed with you in the beginning at our original meeting. That the tile will have warpage and are bowed, have ends that curl both ways and that the products are far from perfect. You did not buy a Gauge Porcelain Tile, so all of the aspects of all of the tolerances the manufacturer is allowed is showing in the products you bought. This does not make your product defective, it just makes it like 98% of all of the other tile on the market. They are all the same and have the same rules to follow and are allowed warpage, bowed tile, curled edges, etc. We as installers do our best to work within the industry standards of what is provided. Once again, all of this was addressed at our first meeting and discussion. Again, the tiles are not defective, just within industry standards. I am sorry you think communication with me was difficult after founding out about the glue down wood flooring under the luxury vinyl. I have record of multiple, multiple phone calls, texts and email that shows we were communicating on a regular basis about when we could get back to you job and what was going on. I am not sure how that shows I was difficult or avoiding you. I was doing everything possible to get back to your job, so we could complete it. I did come back and meet with your husband (You weren't there). I went over all the same things that I went over with you ON OUR 1st meeting. I took him in the garage, showed him the waprage in the tile. I, told him we would happily change out the 5 or 6 tiles that he said you had issues with, but that I cannot guarantee the end result as the few tiles we took out of the boxes in the garage had the same warpage as the tiles already installed, so your husband tole me NO, do not change the tiles, as he completely can see the reason why now. I again, said to him that it was not a problem and that we would change the pieces. He again said no. I did not pull out the contract and the spec book once you expressed your dissatisfaction. I did mention that all of that was dsicussed in our first meeting and that I write things in my contract straight out of the **** Installation Handbook (*****************************), which is the only recognized approved installation book. All architects, engineers and contractors go by this book, as it is the approved method of installation! What it says in my contract is as follows and is straight from the book,

  A-Lippage is a condition where one edge of a tile is higher than an adjacent tile, giving the finished surface an uneven appearance. This condition is inherent in all installation methods and may also be unavoidable due to the tile tolerances, in accordance with ANSI A137.1.          *Key words- INHERENT and UNAVOIDABLE*

  A little farther in the book it goes on to talk about rectified edge tile and that they create lippage and that a cushioned or beveled edge is actually better and will have less lippage. All of this is what I discussed with you on our first meeting. I am not sure how you did not hear this in our discussion, as I discuss all of these things with EVERY potential client. I offered to show the spec book to your husband as well, but he said he understood and he has some of the same problems with what he does after he heats up his pipe for his work. It bends and bows and becomes warped, and it is out of his control. We definitely do not manufacture any of the products, so this is out of our control and it is why it is written in the **** Handbook. That is why there are specs for our installation. You still chose to buy a rectified tile even after our discussion.
  

  Once again, I will offer to come change out the 5 or 6 tiles that your husband mentioned in the meeting you were not part of. But, I will again say that there may be no different result due to the tile product itself. We can try to pick out the best pieces, but there is much more we can do. Over 90+ percent of the tile is flush with all of the pieces surrounding them, but the corner falls of and creates the lippage, due to the warpage of the tile. Please let me know if you would like for us to come change out the pieces for you. 

  I would be happy to go over anything with you or your husband again, about the problems faced with the products, what our installation spec book says and what we can do about working towards resolving whatever you would like us to do. I can bring the spec book with me if you would like to see it for yourselves. It is written so almost everyone will understand. Please let me know what you would prefer for us to do?