ComplaintsforMathews Brothers Company

• Initial Complaint

  02/25/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased windows from them around 4.5 years ago. These are double hung window's and are still under warrenty. This year I noticed condensation on the window about an inch up between the 2 windows. You can feel a draft coming through the seals. This is the first year it has happened. I called to see about getting the problem repaired and they blamed it on humity which is around 30% well within the normal humitiy range for a house. I believe the real issue is that the seals have failed and they are refusing to fix it.

  

  Business response

  03/02/2023

  ******,

  Mathews Brothers has been notified by the BBB that you experienced condensation in your home.  I have done some forensics and it does not appear that Mathews Brothers has any record of you notifying our service team of your issue with condensation.  Is it possible that you discussed this issue with the Dealer that you actually purchased the windows from?  As you could not have purchased windows from Mathews Brothers as stated in your letter to the BBB as we are a wholesale manufacturer and only sell our products to our distributors.  In any case the information you were provided is not off base as windows are never the cause or source of condensation.  Condensation occurs for a myriad of environmental reasons and at times manifests itself on the surface of windows, doors and even drinking glasses in the summer time.  It is for this reason that condensation is specifically excluded from the warranty for our products and in full disclosure condensation is excluded in every warranty from every window manufacturer as windows are not at the root of the cause for condensation it is simply on glass surfaces where visible condensation manifests itself and hence why consumers such as your self believe you have an issue with your windows when you actually have some environmental issues that could be temporary or if persistent you would want to remedy.  Approximately two weeks ago in ***** we experienced subzero temperatures that hadn't occurred in over 80 years and car batteries were taxed, and furnaces were taxed, and all sorts of modern day amenities were put to the test and extreme cold temperatures can certainly increase the probability of condensation manifesting itself on surfaces in your home but again this is temporary and not really a concern.  A window would not perform at a satisfactory level when it comes to the containment of heat loss for over 4 years and then suddenly fail.  Windows are inert.  They do not have motors or heat elements or anything that can fail or stall that would cause their K-Value or U-Value to change.  In closing we have not refused to fix your windows as we were never asked to fix your windows and there is nothing to fix on your windows as you are experiencing condensation which is not caused by windows nor is it covered under your warranty.

  Thank you for your inquiry.

  Customer response

  03/11/2023

  Better Business Bureau:I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ********. Please add your rejection comments below; if you do not provide any details, your complaint will be closed as Answered. 

  [You must provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.  If you do not enter a reason for your rejection, your complaint will be closed as Answered.]
  
  Businesses and Customers should be civil, courteous and polite in their responses to complaints. It is important to remain professional and productive when participating in the BBB complaint process.
  
  FAQ
  
  Regards,

  ******

   

   

  

  Business response

  03/16/2023

  Mathews Brothers is rejecting ***************************** response for the following reasons.
  
  *************************** has refused to accept honest and scientific information about condensation, why it forms, how it forms, and how to mitigate it.  Based on scientific facts, Mathews Brothers along with the entire window industry excludes condensation from our warranty as the manifestation of condensation on a window surface is never due to a manufacturers defect, it is purely environmental.
  ******************** demands that Mathews Brothers mitigate the formation of condensation on his windows is as convoluted, uninformed and unfair as him demanding that ****** mitigate the formation of snow on his car after a snow blizzard. 
  I will take the time to address all of the misinformation in ******************** last correspondence as hopefully education will put ****************** on a path to mitigating moisture in his home as opposed to following a path to nowhere inclusive of blaming his windows for the formation of condensation in his home.
  ****************** has stated that he has not had any problems until this year.  Windows made from PVC and Glass are not organic and do not deteriorate over time.  The one constant in his home maybe his windows.  What does change and constantly evolves is the exterior and interior environment along with the moisture content of organic materials in the home such as wood, gypsum, and concrete.  ****************** purchased his windows from Crescent Lumber which is now owned by Ware ****** but they are still operated as the same retail entity where he made his purchase and ******************* is currently employed by **** ******.  If ****************** feels he was misled or disappointed in the goods he was sold, he should take that up with the retailer that he purchased product from, that is an entirely different scenario than a manufacturers defect.  Again, the windows in question worked without issue, per ******************, for over 4 years and they have been recently inspected and have no defects. 
  Per the request of Crescent Lumber, *********************** inspected the windows in question on behalf of Mathews Brothers and found no defects with the windows nor the specific components that ****************** had concerns about such as the weatherstrip.  ****************** states that he doesnt see condensation until it is 23 degrees outside well that makes sense as the bigger the difference between outside and indoor temperature the more apt you are to have vapor trapped in your home manifest on surfaces on the perimeter of your home. ****************** has stated that he believes he is experiencing condensation because the windows are drafty.  This is false and falls in the face of science. Drafty windows or windows that are ventilating are actually a way to cancel out condensation.  Many scientific documents will tell consumers that condensation is actually a sign that their windows are performing well as the warm air carrying vapors cannot escape the home, or in other words the window has minimized heat loss through the cavity.  When people have problems with condensation in their bathrooms during a shower, they will open the window a crack and minimize or mitigate any condensation collecting on mirrors, windows,ceilings or walls.  So, in basic language if ****************** had leaky drafty windows, what he would not have is visible condensation.  So, again the window is not the cause of condensation.  There is no standard or normal humidity level that will guaranty the mitigation of condensation.  Condensation and humidity level is constantly changing due to exterior temperature, interior temperature,frostline or water table surrounding foundation, base board heat vs radiant floor heat, watering of plants, fish tanks, cooking with water, cleaning with water, showering, and some heating devices shed moisture such as propane.  Condensation is vapor carried in warm air that turns to visible condensation when it collides with a smooth cool surface.  When ****************** stated that he was going to purchase new components for his windows, *********************** instructed him not to waste his money as the problem is not the windows or any of their components.  I would correct ******************** statement that *********************** said Mathews Brothers would not fix the windows,what he did say was that he could not fix the windows because if there is no defect, then there is nothing that can be fixed.
  The fact that some of the glass surfaces in the home do not have condensation on them is pretty common and does not really merit any consideration.  Different glass surfaces can have different specifications, can be closer or further to heating sources or water sources, and all have different juxtaposition to the sun creating different levels of solar heat gain absorbed into the different glass surfaces.
  ****************** believes that Mathews Brothers knows that the seals are bad and it would be costly for us to repair them and that is why we havent fixed his windows.  This is preposterous.  New weatherstripping on a window is worth pocket change.  Think about the mental energy and payroll we have invested in responding to ****************** every time he cries wolf whether in person or in response to his lengthy letters to the BBB.  The reason we havent fixed ******************** windows is that there is nothing we can fix and ethically we have to push him in the direction of a real solution.
  We did not have a record of a service call for ******************** home because condensation is not caused by a manufacturers defect.  This is a customer expectation issue that is between the retailer and the consumer and needs to be resolved at that level as we have never set ******************** expectations nor had a financial transaction with him.  *********************** went to ******************* house as a favor to the retailer and their salesperson ******************* as **** was failing to explain the science of condensation and set ******************** expectations based on science and fact.
  *********************** did not refuse to fix the issue; he simply told ****************** the truth and stated that there is nothing that we can fix.  ****************** stated that all he wants is the problem to be repaired, if that is truly the case he should begin by:
  Making sure his attic is vented properly. Make sure his bath vents are working properly and always turn them on. Explore an air exchanger or dehumidifier, or frankly do what many people would do and wipe the condensation off his windows on the few 23-degree days that occurred this year.
  
  Mathews Brothers can respond to countless more communications back and forth with ******************, but the answer will always be the same.  We cant repair a window that isnt broken.

  Customer response

  03/17/2023

  Better Business Bureau:I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ********. Please add your rejection comments below; if you do not provide any details, your complaint will be closed as Answered. 

  [You must provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.  If you do not enter a reason for your rejection, your complaint will be closed as Answered.]
  
  Businesses and Customers should be civil, courteous and polite in their responses to complaints. It is important to remain professional and productive when participating in the BBB complaint process.
  
  FAQ
  
  Regards,

  ******

   I have attached a pdf document explaining why I'm rejecting the response.

   

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