ComplaintsforPappas Toyota

• Initial Complaint

  09/25/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Sales and Advertising Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  When we purchased the warranty they informed us it was the premium warranty, bumper to bumper and we would get a loaner car should the car go into the shop. We called because we were hearing some noises. We asked about the loaner car and were told that they would not give us a loaner car until after the car was diagnosed. They called us back and told us that the issue was the water pump and the alternator and he said that those parts were not covered under our warranty. This person tried to sell a radiator flush but why would I need that? when they change the radiator all those fluids would drain out anyway. We explained to them that we paid $3000 for the warranty and those parts should be covered and they would not give us a loaner car because they sold all of their rental cars. That is not my problem. The man stated that he would send something off to the warranty company to see if they will cover the parts with a $100 dollar deductible. I would like for the car to be fixed and to get a loaner car while the car is being fixed.

  

  Business response

  09/29/2023

  Our records indicate ******************** vehicle is in the process of being repaired.  Our Repair Order #****** with a close date of 09/26/23 outlines that the water pump has already been replaced and the customer was only charged $100 for the deductible.  (they were also charged for an oil change that was not covered under the service contract).  In addition, the alternator for the repair is currently on order.  We estimate its arrival the 2nd or 3rd week of October, and will contact the customer to schedule an appointment when it arrives.  The customer was informed, that while we are waiting for the alternator to arrive, the vehicle is safe to drive.

  To address the concern of the rental vehicle:  We do not offer, nor does the service contract pay for a rental vehicle during diagnosis time.  This is because the diagnosis is the timeframe in which it is determine what repair is needed and coverage that is available for the repair (including rental).  After the initial diagnosis was completed and it was determined that the repair is covered, the customer was offered a rental vehicle under the terms of her service contract.  The customer indicated that she could drive her vehicle without the rental vehicle. 

  To recap, we are waiting for the alternator to come in and will contact the customer to schedule an appointment for *********** it is received.

   

  Thank you.

  Customer response

  09/29/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************

• Initial Complaint

  08/02/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

   My wife brought her car for repair and they told her to leave it there and to leave it running and they would fix it. So we did and by the time we got home they called us to come and pick up the car.  The car was leaking coolant everywhere, the car was over heated, and they had locked the keys in the car . The car would not start at all.  They told us they couldnt fix it and that we needed to remove the car immediately from their lot.  I tried to resolve the issue with the GM and he told me they work on 120 cars per day and that my car was not his problem.  I told him I would report him and he told me he did not care who I called.  My wife had to sell her car in order to remove it from their lot because it would not start.  So now my wife is out of a car because of them. 

  

  Business response

  08/14/2023

  Our records show this customer brought their 2009 Toyota STC in for service on 06/08/23.

  Upon drop off, our staff immediately noticed that the vehicle did not have a key or cylinder for the ignition of the vehicle.  It could only be "pop" started, and/or by touching wires together.  Because of that, and the need to be able to pull the vehicle through the service drive, the vehicle was kept running and pulled onto the service lot to wait evaluation.  However, approximately 3 minutes after that, the vehicle began to overheat.

  After further evaluation by our service staff, there was evidence of multiple repair attempts throughout the vehicle that included re-routing wires that pertained to the ABS (Breaking system), skid control, and ignition just to name a few.  Without prior knowledge of the multiple repair attempts to the car, our facility was unable safely repair this vehicle.  Because of this, we immediately contacted the customer and requested that they pick the vehicle up and remove it from the lot.  

  We did not attempt to repair this vehicle, nor was the vehicle worked on by Pappas Toyota.  The issues referred to by the customer were already issues when the vehicle was presented for repair.  To further, we have included a copy of the repair order showing our evaluation of the vehicle which includes:  The vehicle could only be pop started, there were 3 aftermarket starters installed in the vehicle prior to arrival, customer was not in possession of the master key, customer had hit a deer, when the vehicle was running the turn signals were inoperable, fuse box and headlight we replaced prior by the customer and when the vehicle was dropped off it began to overheat in the parking lot.

  Please also see the enclosed ****** report for the vehicle that indicates multiple incidents of accident damage, more than one total loss declarations, and a salvage title on the vehicle.  This vehicle was unrepairable, and inoperable when it arrived at our facility.  Pappas Toyota did not attempt to repair the vehicle and not cause the issues that lead the customer's need to sell the vehicle.  The customer was not charged for the time we spent on the vehicle.  Normally our diagnostic charge is $99.95 of which we did not charge in this instance every though our service staff spent time moving and caring for the vehicle and dealing with this combative customer while it was on the lot.  We are not responsible for the prior damage, and unrepairable condition of the car.

• Initial Complaint

  07/14/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On Feb 26, 2023 my 19 yr old daughter purchase her first car a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder from Pappas Toyota. I was unable to go with her in that I am in law enforcement and had been working 80 hrs of over time. I explained this to the salesman ( ******) and trusted that they would not take advantage of her. In April, 2023 the Pathfinder started shaking. We took it in to their service department and paid an additional $726 for them to replace 6 spark plugs and the coil. They informed us that would fix the problem and take care of the check engine light. Three days later the light came back on and my daughter contacted the service department and was told it just has to be reset and that she could do that herself by looking at the manual. On July 12 the Pathfinder stop in the middle of rush hour traffic and she had to have it towed to ******* **********. They diagnosed it as being the 2 catalytic converters and stated this problem had to be going on for sometime in that the 2 converters had melted and broke. The price tag to get the car repaired this time is $5,285 more than over have of what she owes on the car. They suspect that the dealership knew about this when they sold it to my innocent daughter who only wanted the Nissan Pathfinder because her father had just dropped dead in 2021 and his favorite car was the Pathfinder. When she purchase the car there was 143, 287 miles on it in Feb. When we had it repaired the first time there was 145283 and now there is 149069 which mean she has drove the car less than 4000 miles since owning it. We suspect that the last time they knew of the existing problem and ignored it and reset the check engine light which would have alerted us to the misfire and the problem. They stated in the beginning that they had did a thorough inspection before my daughter my daughter purchase the car. She trusted the sales man as well as the sale manager who took advantage of her naivete. Pappas SHOULD BE ASHAMED HOW THEY DO BUSINESS

  

  Business response

  07/18/2023

  I appears this customer purchased the vehicle "as-is" with no warranty.  Please see the attached buyers order and Buyers guide, both signed by the customer indicating the vehicle was being sold with no Dealer Warranty.  A service contract was offered at additional charge and the customer declined.  In addition, via the signed buyer' order, the customer agreed to resolve any disputes via arbitration, not with other outside entities.  If they wish to proceed further, they will need to do so by filing for arbitration.

  Customer response

  07/31/2023

  Section 8(a) of the Pappas agreement, states; "The Federal Arbitration Act, not state law, shall govern the arbitration process and the question of whether a claim is subject to arbitration. The customer, however, retains the right to take any claim, controversy or dispute that qualifies to small claims court rather than arbitration." Pappas' arbitration clause itself provides the authority to bypass arbitration and go to small claims court. However, the Missouri Supreme Court has ruled that such clauses cannot waive the protection provided by the Missouri Merchandising Practices Act (MMAP); see ******* ** ***** **** ****** ***** *** ** ** **** where the dealer tried to compel arbitration but the court ruled the arbitration clause unenforceable.
  

  Additionally, please note that both my name and my daughters' name appear as purchaser on the Pappas agreement, however, only my daughter signed the agreement with the arbitration clause, therefore, I cannot be forced into arbitration. I would have preferred to accompany my daughter, however, I was working over 80 hours of overtime per pay period during that time leaving only a small window where we could both be present on February 24th. D, our Pappas salesperson, wasn't available during that window and informed me that I didn't need to be there to finalize the sale, but I was never informed about the arbitration clause or that the vehicle was sold as-is and not covered by the Pappas Premium pledge. My negotiations with D were over the phone and by text and I didn't visit their location until after the deal was completed. The online advertisement for the Pathfinder did not mention it was as-is.
  Car dealers are required by the FTC to post a Buyers Guide before they display a vehicle for sale or let a customer inspect it for the purpose of buying it, even if the car is not fully prepared for delivery. I was sent photos, Exhibit B, of the vehicle before and after the test drive which clearly shows there was no Buyers Guide.  Please note that Pappas Exhibit 2 may have been signed by my 19 year old daughter if they presented it, but the Buyer's Guide certainly does not contain my signature.
  The MMPA is designed to regulate the market place to the advantage of those traditionally thought to have unequal bargaining power, as well as those who may fall victim to unfair business practices. The Missouri legislature enacted paternalistic legislation to protect those consumers that could not otherwise protect themselves, signifying it would not want the protection of chapter 407 to be waived by those deemed in need of protection. This very fact indicates that it is a fundamental policy embodied in a statute which is designed to protect persons against the “oppressive use of superior bargaining power.” **** ** ******* *************** ***** *** ****** **** *** ******** *****. Therefore, the fact that my daughter signed the Buyer Guide does not exempt Pappas Toyota from their pledge.
  We raised fraud issues in our complaint, so the Pappas attorney's correspondence does not fully resolve this matter. We hope that the AG's office may provide assistance, however, we are fully prepared to file suit in St. Charles Circuit Court if it cannot. The secondary nature of our AG complaint was to notify this office of possible fraud and to prevent Pappas from making false statements on their website concerning the Pappas Premium and "rigorous inspections" and then using the "As-Is" sale, arbitration, and declining to purchase an extended service contract to bypass and insulate themselves from the consumer protection laws of this State.
  I am attaching a copy of a communication sent to the Missouri Attorney General that contains the Pappas Premium Pre-Owned Peace of Mind pledge from their website. Please note there is no disclaimer stating that some vehicles are not covered. This pledge would mislead any reasonable consumer into thinking all used vehicles sold by Pappas are covered. Several mechanics have explained that the vehicle we purchased shouldn't have passed a basic state inspection and that any sort of "rigorous inspection" certainly should have identified the issues we faced in March and then July.

  Please refer to the attachment for additional information, photos and documents.

• Initial Complaint

  10/16/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Dealer sold me a car with a bad motor. Refused to repair vehicle upon request within 30 days of ownership. Dealer didn’t furnish certificate of title at time of delivery and did not complete a delay of certificate of title either. Dealer had no intentions on returning my down payment as they had no return payment available when vehicle was returned because of their lack of filing proper paperwork required by state law. Loan was closed for that sole reason and dealer tried to blame me for the loan being canceled. I’d like my down payment and will be filing a complaint with attorney general regarding business practices

  

  Business response

  10/21/2022

  *** ****** purchased an AS-IS 2017 Chevrolet Equinox with 148,415 miles on it in June, 2022.  He also purchased an extended warranty to help cover any breakdowns or needed mechanical repairs should they have been needed in the future.  Apparently, when the vehicle did need service, *** ****** refused to utilize the warranty that was in place for his vehicle.  To further, during the time of his ownership, *** ****** failed to make even one payment to his finance company.  Because of this, the finance institution cancelled the contract and *** ****** returned the vehicle to our dealership with damage to the front, and having driven it more than 10,000 miles during his time of ownership. 

  In short, *** ****** drove the vehicle for 4 months, damaged the vehicle and put over 10,000 miles on it and never made a single payment.  Our dealership is now out the depreciation for mileage and the repair of the vehicle.  Lastly, our dealership notified *** ****** that the title to his vehicle was ready for pickup in June, 2022 and despite his assurance that he would pick up his title, he never came to pick it up.  Our title department proceeded to call this customer five more times over the course of 2 months trying to have him pick the title up, and after numerous voicemails, calls with no answer, and *** ****** not doing what he said he would do, we mailed him the title on 8.11.22.

  It is clear this customer would owe Pappas Toyota the difference in miles, reapir costs for damage to the vehicle and would owe the state of Missouri the Sales tax from this transacation.

  In short of pursuing *** ****** and ******* ******* (the co-owner) leagally for the balance of the damage and mileage use of the vehicle, there is nothing more that we can do for this customer.

   

   

• Initial Complaint

  10/13/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased a used vehicle from this company 4 months ago for $26000.00. The salesman told me that it was in mint condition with no known issues or accidents. The car only had 4000 original miles on it. I purchased the car and financed it through this company only to find out now that it had been in a major accident that caused the air bags to be replaced. This has dropped the value of my vehicle by 50%. I called this dealership asking that they make this right with me and was told it was my responsibility to research the vehicle prior to purchase. I trusted this company and was very disappointed that they would offer no resolution to selling me a vehicle that is only worth half of what they charged me for and to not disclose the accident is very unprofessional on their part.

  

  Business response

  10/14/2022

  With regard to *** ********* concern.  There are quite a few misrepresenting facts in his original statement:

  >  He did not pay $26,000.00 for the vehilce, he paid $25,300.00

  >  His vehicle was appraised by us for $21,500.00 and his complain states it was 50% of the original value.  If it were 50% of the original value the amount offered would have been $12,650.00, and not the $21,500.00 we appraised.

  >  He states he has had the vehicle for 4 months, however his purchase date was April, 7, 2022 which is more that 6 months ago.

  >  *** ******* also failed to state that at the time of the appraisal the vehicle now had 10,945 miles on it, meaning that he drove the vehicle nearly 7,000 miles while it was in his possession.  This is an extremely important fact that was not provided in the orignal complaint because miles and time are a vehicle's biggest factors for depreiciation.

  *** ******** did not provide an accurate picture of the transacation and would like to ignore that 7,000 miles were put on the vehicle while in his possession.  In addition, our dealership provides CARFAX reports on all used vehicles that are available for viewing on our website.  Finally, when this vehicle was sold (and currently) there weren't and still aren't any mechanical defects in realtion to airbag deloyment.  This vehicle is sellabel and in perfect driving condition at this time with no mechanical defects.  

  We have done all we can for *** *******.

   

  Thank you.

  

  Business response

  10/17/2022

  As stated in our previous response this vehicle is in perfect running condition with no mechanical defects.  Should the customer be interested in Pappas Toyota repurcahsing the vehicle for the appraised amount, feel free to contact our office.  Otherwise, we have done everything we can for this customer.

   

  Customer response

  10/17/2022

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  First you giving that value for trade in how you expect me to do business with you guys after what happened. 
  second I’ll be loosing around $6000. 
  $4000 from the car and $2000 from the tax I paid. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** *******

• Initial Complaint

  07/07/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  7/5 went in to service department for warranty work and unrelated recall issue. **************** was to replace the driver side seat panel because the index card thick plastic tab that held it on already broke off. denied because it wasnt a manufacturer defect. However, it is a manufacturer decision to use low quality parts to assemble a $57,000 truck. Charging another $5000 market markup just to buy it and then making warranty work a hassle because they dont feel like taking care of the issue is sleazy business. Service advisor marked down that the panel appeared have been ripped off like someone had gone at it intentionally as opposed to being simply a low quality busted plastic tab. They told me not their problem and to call Toyota ************** When I did that they said that due to the service advisors notes that they would not rectify the situation.

  

  Business response

  07/14/2022

  Our records indicate ************ had service work completed on his 2022 Tundra on 07/05/22 at our location.  After reviewing the repair records with our Service Manager, Pappas Toyota offers the following in response to this concern:  

  Upon inspection of the vehicle, it was determined that the issue with the seat panel is not a manfucaturer's defect, and is therefore not covered by the manufacturer's warranty.  It is the decision of the manufacturer (Toyota) and not the delaership (Pappas Toyota) on whether something is considered a manufacturer defect and is covered under warranty.  This is not a decision that is made at the dealership level due to the fact that we sell the vehicles, not build them.  Having said that, from time to time, Toyota allows a certain amount of good will with regard to certain repairs, should this scenario qualify for consideration from Toyota, Pappas Toyota **** is more than happy to work with the Toyota **************** Manager on behalf of this customer to see if there can be an amicable solution. 

  Please indicate if the customer is interested in working with our Service Manager on trying resolving this issue with Toyota.

  Thank you.

  Customer response

  07/14/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************

• Initial Complaint

  06/13/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I have a warranty involving a 2015 Camry purchased and maintained By Pappas Toyota. The touch screen display that is the primary control for the radio, navigation, and other onboard applications was malfunctioning. After the service representative "reviewed" the issue, they claimed that they could not duplicate the issue. When it was apparent that it did not function properly, I spoke with a supervisor who had a technician go with me to investigate the issue. Within seconds of entering a diagnostic mode, the technician immediately diagnosed that the touch screen was significantly defective and registering touches in the wrong locations. Buttons and controls near the bottom of the screen are nearly impossible to activate. The service then indicated that this was not covered under the warranty and would have to be paid for by me as the owner to replace. The defect in the touch screen makes all of the systems totally reliant on available "voice commands" that seldom function properly. As such, the navigation, radio, and other applications that relay on controls near the bottom of the display (especially the navigation) are, for all intense and purpose, unusable. I would like Toyota to stand by their product and repair/replace the defective component.

  

  Business response

  06/17/2022

  6.17.22
  Case Response for **** *********
  
  Our repair order# ****** dated 7.8.2021 shows that the customer indicated an issue with the map screen.  However, our records also indicate that at the time of diagnosis the technician sighted that the map screen was functioning as designed at time of checkout.  Further, we completed a check for warranty coverage for this vehicle and the only warranty available is powertrain, and does not cover the scenario described here. 
  If the customer has extended coverage with another policy that we are unaware of, we welcome the opportunity to check coverage from that provider.  Otherwise, this repair is not covered under warranty.
    We are happy to review the condition again and provide a quote for repair if necessary.
  
  Sincerely,
  Pappas Toyota Inc.
  Tell us why here...

  Customer response

  06/19/2022

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

  The response is incomplete. The original "diagnosis" did indicate that the touch screen was functioning as it was supposed to. However, after I got in the vehicle, the touch sensor was CLEARLY not sensing the touching in the proper location. So, I went back inside and asked to speak the a manager. The manager identified another technician that returned with me to the vehicle and was immediately able to reproduce and enter a diagnostic mode that easily showed that the touches were being sensed in the wrong locations. He returned to the service office to verify that the touch screen was not covered by the warranty and would require the replacement of the entire component. The screen could not be replaced by itself. 

  As stated, this makes all of the functionality like the radio, navigation, etc. unusable as you cannot touch any of the controls that are near the bottom on the screen. 

  The response above implied that they could not duplicate the issue when the technician that I worked with was easily able to demonstrate the issue. It is unfortunate that a component so central to so all the entertainment and utilities associated with the vehicle is not covered as a part of the basic warranty.

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** *********

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