ComplaintsforMr. Outdoor Living

• Initial Complaint

  08/14/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Sales and Advertising Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On 29 February 2024, I met with ******************************* of Mr. Outdoor Living to correct a drainage issue at the backyard of my home so that my back porch would not flood. We only talked about correcting the drainage problem. The same day ********************** emailed me the cost estimate for "Drainage Solutions", $2,650.00. I sent the deposit he requested and on 21 March 2024 I made the final payment. His men came and dug a trench, installed a French drain and covered it with stone. When it rained on July 6, water rushed onto the porch. I contacted ********************** and sent a video, as he requested. He replied by email on July 11, "We are here to help continue to make your home more beautiful. Drainage Solutions are not guaranteed and what we did for you is working for what was agreed upon. If it's not covered warranty, that's okay. We are here to help solve the Outdoor Living related issue and it would just be a service call (price tbd--labor, materials and a little overhead) or additional work to help your drainage problems." We did not believe we should be charged more money since we had already paid $2650 with the understanding this was to solve our drainage problem. We responded by email by stating, "Your company was retained to correct the drainage problem at the rear of *********************. Nothing has changed in the yard, sidewalk or the house since you gave us the estimate. As you saw from the video, problems remain." His reply on July 11 was, "We guarantee our work, but we can't guarantee drainage and water the earth provides like ******* or other massive storms." We responded that during the period when it flooded, the weather bureau said only 0.35 inches fell in one hour. Each time it has rained, the porch had flooded. Our last contact with the company was a phone conversation on July 18, 2024, when we were told someone would come out and correct a drainage. That was the last time we heard from them.

  Business response

  09/03/2024

  We have contacted this customer to discuss options to solve the drainage concerns. However, they are not willing to pay any additional money for labor and materials to solve the additional drainage work and concerns. We have made it clearly to the customers our contract and warranty agreement for drainage problems as well. 
  
  Drainage - Mr. Outdoor Living does not guarantee drainage solutions and is not responsible for extreme weather conditions causing adverse drainage problems to our drainage solutions failing or not working with 100% efficiency. Mr. Outdoor Living provides a 30 days warranty if there is a drainage issue related to the workmanship.
  
  

  Customer response

  09/10/2024

   
  I am rejecting this response because:

  The company has not indicated in writing it wants to anything to resolve the drainage problem it promised to correct or reimburse.

  I did get a message from an unknown number saying they were from Mr. Outdoor Living. Who is your contact with them and their contact information? Is there anything else the BBB can suggest?

  My house back porch still floods when it rains. Since school has started, my time is with my class.

  (There is a shortage of special ed ********** My elderly neighbor can take calls about this. ********************, ************.

  Thank you,

  *************************

   

  
  

  Business response

  09/10/2024

  Please contact us at ************** if you would like to communicate with us to help resolve the issue. We dont prefer to communicate through a third party website. We are happy to help resolve the issue that is fair with both parties. Thank you 

• Initial Complaint

  08/30/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I paid $3,00 deposit via chk #*** to Mr. Outdoor Living, owned by *************************** on 5/16/23 for landscaping services. Project was cancelled by me on 7/12, prior to any services being rendered or material delivered. I considered ********************** a friend & wanted to preserve our friendship so I initially told him to keep the deposit as I figured wed wait until "the dust settled" and work out our differences. However, subsequent discussions on 8/15 deteriorated to the point where working together was impossible. On both 8/15 & 8/21, I sent texts, ******************* requests to ********************** to "return the deposit by the end of the week", but he refused, stating "we have a signed contract". However, not only was a contract NOT SIGNED by me, the contract proposal extended by Mr. Outdoor Living states: "If for any reason the project gets canceled by the homeowner, the deposit may be returned, minus any time and charges related to the project. A 20% restocking fee for any material ordered for that project may also be deducted".

  Business response

  08/30/2023

  Good afternoon, 

  Please contact ******************************* myself ************* so we can resolve this issue and talk about refunds and potentially doing some work in the future. Thank you. 

• Initial Complaint

  08/15/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On 8/2/23, I texted Mr. Outdoor Living for a paver patio estimate. I received a phone call with a confirmed appointment for Wednesday, August 9th. Originally, the appointment was earlier in the day, but I was called to work and asked if they could come later. **** sent me a text telling me that he usually charges a $25 fee. I returned his text and told him to cancel the appointment, as I dont pay for estimates. Then he returned my text, stating he was sorry for the misunderstanding and that he would not charge any fees.After we discussed the project, I decided to pay the deposit, thinking the project would turn out well. However, the next day, I called my uncle who is an architect and builder in another state, who recommended that I complete the ceiling of the raised deck to prevent runoff and settling of pavers. I decided to cancel the project, sent a text on Friday, 8/11 and a separate email on 8/12 requesting that the project be canceled. Before the cancellation, **** had called me the Thursday after our meeting, but I told him I was at the doctors and wanted to ask him a few more questions before getting started. He said to call him. I called him, but then he was busy. **** told me on Wednesday that he could not submit anything to the *** without a map of my property, so I did not send him the map because I needed to cancel the project.After talking to him on Monday and sending another email canceling the job, he responded telling me he is keeping $75.00 of my money for the estimate/design time at my home on Wednesday and for cancellation of the project. Yet, none of these fees were disclosed to me. The fees seemed to be determined after the fact.I did not sign a contract, I only gave a deposit. My intention was to proceed with the project. The contract stated that a deposit would be returned if I canceled.I notified Mr. Outdoor Living within a reasonable timeframe to cancel the job. No work was done, I would like a full refund.

  Business response

  08/22/2023

  Our company policy is as follows and is sent to every potential customer prior to an ********************************************* design meeting. (Attached) 

  In this case, the customer has agreed to do a project with us, Mr. Outdoor Living. The deposit was $960 for a close to $10,000 project. The customer agreed to the project by giving our company the deposit. By giving a deposit it assures multiple things between the customer and our business. It is the agreement of the project on top of the signed contract. It credits the initial design fee for we are doing business with the customer. It  secures a spot on our very busy schedule. It triggers myself to order and secure materials and call 811 to mark utilities. It also triggers our help to submit to HOA as needed. 

  We were very excited to help this customer make her home more beautiful. 

  Within the next weekend we received multiple disrespectful emails requesting we send the deposit as soon as possible back and canceling the project. 

  We immediately agreed we would send a portion back via mail (check) like we do with all cancellations (very rare in our business). We however let the customer know that the design fee of $175 would be deducted from the deposit. This $175 covers the hour my father / owner took to review the project at the customers home with the customer and the hours we spent organizing the calendar, ordering materials and so on. 

  Myself, ****, General Manager and General Contractor is always here to help with any miscommunication. My personal phone number is *************

  Customer response

  08/23/2023

   
  I am rejecting this response because:  The business is not negotiating in good faith.  On August 14, 2023, ***************************, sent me an email after our phone conversation, in which he clearly states, "no problem, we will cancel the job and I will mail you a refund."  Then he follows up with an email, "Mon, Aug 14, 5:52?PM (9 days ago) "All your emails have been received .We will mail you a check minus the discounted Outdoor Living consultation / DesignTime meeting and another $75 to cancel deliveries and the *** paperwork. We will credit that when we you are ready to revisit your Paver Patio. I am a drainage expect, however respect your judgement.  Have a wonderful evening and your project is no longer on our production schedule and I have agreed that my signed agreement with you is canceled. Bill" 

  Please see attached emails to show the timeline of the cancellation and emails from ****************************  Originally, he agreed to hold $75.00, now he sent a second email stating his is holding $175.00.  He also states that he is charging me for design time, even though he agreed not to charge me for an estimate.  I have attached text messages where I clearly state that I do not want to do business with him if he will charge (estimate text 1 and 1a). 

  I believe that my refund amount should be $960.00 given the original discussion that I would not be charged any fees for estimating the project and I was told over the phone that I would be refunded.  No conversation was made regarding charging fees until I received the first email stating he would hold $70.00, now he changed his mind to $150.00.   I believe complaint will need to be escalated to the ************** ********** of ******** Protection to fully investigate this situation and to make the *********************** aware of the multiple complaints made against this company with similar concerns.

  *************************

  
  
  

  
  

  Business response

  08/29/2023

  We have already sent a check with a refund minus the design fee ($75) so this is a resolved issue. Still not sure why a third party is needed for $75 but we wish the customer the best as well as forgive them for the insults and bullying. 

  Customer response

  08/29/2023

   
  I am rejecting this response because:
  There is clear evidence that I cancelled the appointment with **********************.  Its clear that I told him that I would not pay any fees and that we need to cancel the appointment.  Mr.  ********* stated that he was sorry for any confusion, he stated this because he verbalized that he would not charge me for any time spent at my home.  He agreed that he was well aware that I was interviewing several parties to determine who I wanted to do the work.  Now, hes changing his word, which he has tried to do several times. This matter is not resolved.  No check was received.  The amount of ****** is owed.  I believe that ********************** is trying to bully me and trying to use the bare and switch technique of sales.  I made it clear that I would not pay fees, he came to my home knowing this.  

  Business response

  08/30/2023

  We have mailed a check already to the customer. It is currently in the mail and on the way. There is nothing more we can do as a company. We will kindly ask to part as friends. There should not be needing any more requests for responses through the third party of the BBB.

  Customer response

  08/30/2023

   
  I am rejecting this response because:
  No check has been received.  We need a 3rd party because there has been no resolution.  The business tried to take advantage of the situation.  They know they were wrong, first saying they would keep $75.00, then trying to keep $175.00.  Once they were shown hard evidence of their own wrong doing they decided to keep with $75.00.  This shows a pattern of behavior that was identified by previous customers and previous complaints.  This complain will continue to be rejected as long as the company has not provided a 100% refund.  There is evidence that ********************** was told to cancel the appointment as the customer made clear that she was shopping for the right company for the job.  ********************** agreed and decided to come voluntarily knowing that I was not going to pay for an estimate.  The only time spent together was at my house during the estimate.  No other time was spent.  The HOA confirmed they had no contact with **********************, no survey was provided to **********************.  ********************** did not design anything.  He gave me a verbal quote with a text confirming the amount of money.  I did not sign a contract.  I verbally agreed to a price.  I stated in writing that I changed my mind and requested the deposit be returned.  So far the deposit was not returned and there has been dialogue that has been disrespectful towards the customer, myself.  ********************** has tried to capitalize from my deposit and manipulate me to return as a customer to use money that is rightfully owned by me.  The BBB is an agency that is used to resolve disputes in which the customer and the business makes a good faith effort to resolve matters.  ********************** has not done this and previous customers have made complaints about him for the same reasons.  Im asking the BBB to publish this complaint so that customers can be aware of how this company continues to take advantage of customers.

  Customer response

  08/31/2023

   
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Date Sent: 8/30/2023 3:09:38 PM
   
  I am rejecting this response because:
  No check has been received.  We need a 3rd party because there has been no resolution.  The business tried to take advantage of the situation.  They know they were wrong, first saying they would keep $75.00, then trying to keep $175.00.  Once they were shown hard evidence of their own wrong doing they decided to keep with $75.00.  This shows a pattern of behavior that was identified by previous customers and previous complaints.  This complain will continue to be rejected as long as the company has not provided a 100% refund.  There is evidence that ********************** was told to cancel the appointment as the customer made clear that she was shopping for the right company for the job.  ********************** agreed and decided to come voluntarily knowing that I was not going to pay for an estimate.  The only time spent together was at my house during the estimate.  No other time was spent.  The HOA confirmed they had no contact with **********************, no survey was provided to **********************.  ********************** did not design anything.  He gave me a verbal quote with a text confirming the amount of money.  I did not sign a contract.  I verbally agreed to a price.  I stated in writing that I changed my mind and requested the deposit be returned.  So far the deposit was not returned and there has been dialogue that has been disrespectful towards the customer, myself.  ********************** has tried to capitalize from my deposit and manipulate me to return as a customer to use money that is rightfully owned by me.  The BBB is an agency that is used to resolve disputes in which the customer and the business makes a good faith effort to resolve matters.  ********************** has not done this and previous customers have made complaints about him for the same reasons.  Im asking the BBB to publish this complaint so that customers can be aware of how this company continues to take advantage of customers.
  

  
  

  Business response

  08/31/2023

  A check has been mailed and is on the way. No need for any future responses. We forgive you. 

  Customer response

  09/01/2023

   
  I am rejecting this response because:
  No check received 

  Customer response

  09/12/2023

   
  I am rejecting this response because:
  As stated in the attached email, the check was delivered with a pot of flowers during working hours while I was at work.  I responded to the several text messages from ***********************, letting her know that I would confirm receipt after work.  After arriving home, I opened an envelope and saw a check written for $785.00.  When I saw the check, I was shocked!  The check had a memo "less $150.00".  However, given the original deposit was $960.00, less $150.00 would be $810, not $785.00.  I don't believe this was a mistake and I think the Goldsteins are playing a game with me.  The email from **********************, that is attached to the complaint, states that he would charge me $75.00, not $150.  I actually had to explain to ********************** that the policy is not in place because of the text messages and the email, which states he would charge me $75.00. The BBB complaint is based on the $75.00 fee.  ********************** was not allowed on my property, as stated in the text messages that were attached to the complaint, if he was planning to charge fees.  Therefore, ********************** was trespassing on my property.  I own this property and he was not allowed on it if he was to charge fees, that was very clear in the text messages.  In addition. all the ********* family members are well aware of the emails that have been attached to the complaint and they know they are required to comply with the original email.  I have been subjected to constant bantering and threats by ***********************  He even left a threatening phone message to never text his wife.  However, I was responding to the text that *********************** sent to me, I did not initiate this communication, she did.  The *********** are aware of the complaint, the evidence that I attached is unequivocal, there is no question of what happened because it's all documented.  At this point, I am not accepting the check and will be mailing it back to them certified mail. 

  Customer response

  09/13/2023

   
  I am rejecting this response because:

   

   

  Date Sent: 9/12/2023 6:21:21 PM
   
  I am rejecting this response because:
  As stated in the attached email, the check was delivered with a pot of flowers during working hours while I was at work.  I responded to the several text messages from ***********************, letting her know that I would confirm receipt after work.  After arriving home, I opened an envelope and saw a check written for $785.00.  When I saw the check, I was shocked!  The check had a memo "less $150.00".  However, given the original deposit was $960.00, less $150.00 would be $810, not $785.00.  I don't believe this was a mistake and I think the ********** are playing a game with me.  The email from **********************, that is attached to the complaint, states that he would charge me $75.00, not $150.  I actually had to explain to ********************** that the policy is not in place because of the text messages and the email, which states he would charge me $75.00. The BBB complaint is based on the $75.00 fee.  ********************** was not allowed on my property, as stated in the text messages that were attached to the complaint, if he was planning to charge fees.  Therefore, ********************** was trespassing on my property.  I own this property and he was not allowed on it if he was to charge fees, that was very clear in the text messages.  In addition. all the ********* family members are well aware of the emails that have been attached to the complaint and they know they are required to comply with the original email.  I have been subjected to constant bantering and threats by ***********************  He even left a threatening phone message to never text his wife.  However, I was responding to the text that *********************** sent to me, I did not initiate this communication, she did.  The *********** are aware of the complaint, the evidence that I attached is unequivocal, there is no question of what happened because it's all documented.  At this point, I am not accepting the check and will be mailing it back to them certified mail. 
  

  
  

  Business response

  09/20/2023

  We will no longer try and help this customer.

   

  We waved her fee over the phone because she begged us and just wanted a quick price.

   

  She ended up agreeing to do business with us after spending over 1 1/2 hours at her home.

   

  She changed her mind several days later and demanded a full refund.

   

  She did not ask us or ever offer to pay anything for our time.

   

  Our company policy states that we charge $175 per hour for our time. We even discount it to $75.

   

  She wants to pay us nothing and we believe that is not acceptable or fair to the other customers.

   

  However, if she wants to provide us with an apology we might consider giving all her money back.

   

  We have already mailed her one check. 

   

  Then canceled it because she tricked us by not cashing it or communicating with us about it.

   

  Then we went to the store and bought her flowers and hand delivered another check with a nice note.

   

  BTW - the $175 / hour or $75 is also credited upon being a customer of ********************. Then we visit homes free for life when asked upon us to do so. That is our company policy and it works.

   

  Only two people canceled all year and both complained to the BBB. Maybe we are not perfect. But our customers love how we do business and this woman who is complaining about us is not a customer.

   

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩