Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  07/02/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  On 3/17, I bought a used 2019 *** ** for over $40K after taxes and fees. The salesman told me that the car is covered for either 90 day or 4K miles. Since the first couple of days, glove box started to produce rattling noise and the driver side window started to produce noise when driven at low temp/high speed. The salesman proposed that we have their service dept examine the issues. I took the car back to them on 6/10. On 6/15, they informed me that 1. They heard the rattling noise but can’t replicate it thus can’t fix it 2. They fixed the side window noise it by working on the sunroof. I reminded them that roof was not the problem; they said the two are related 3. I should come up to their dealership the next week to see if I could replicate the rattling noise on site and check that the side window noise is gone On 6/16, they dropped my car off; I asked the porter if he heard any noise during his trip; he said he couldn’t as it was raining. A day later, 1. Rattling noise was clearly audible; I captured a couple of video clips 2. Side window noise was clearly audible even at warm temp/low speed 3. Even the sunroof produced noise On 6/19, I sent the videos to the salesman and sent him an email about the persisting issues. In that email, I also told him that I’d consider selling back the car to them if they fail to fix the issue and asked him for a quote. His responded “I will forward this to our service manager and let him know so he can help with this. I will help out as much as i can but i ***'t know to much on the service side of the ***” In response, I asked him to share the video clips to the service manager and re-asked him for a quote in case the issue persists and I decide to sell it back to them. No response to date On 6/20, the service manager called and told me that they will pick up the car over the next couple of days. Immediately after the call I sent him an email asking him for a phone number so that I can send him the two videos. No response to date

  Business response

  07/21/2023

  We have been in communication with Mr. ***** and have had his vehicle in our shop and were able to duplicate and correct some of his issues.  There was one concern that we could not duplicate because it only happens in cooler temperatures. After driving with Mr. ***** for over an hour, we could not duplicate the concern. As a gesture of goodwill, we returned his vehicle with a full tank of gas and offered a gift card, which Mr. ***** declined. We will reach out to him when the weather is cooler to address his unresolved concern.  

  Customer response

  07/25/2023

    I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  The update provided by *** does not tell the whole story.  They did bring the car back and had their service operations take a look at the car, but no issue has been resolved. I realize that no one has yet to idenfy a clear pattern/condition under which the car makes those noises, and thus the problems cannot be replicated, but just because issues can’t be replicated, it doesn’t mean the car has no issues.Also, it it not true that I and the *** employee drove the car together for more than an hour; I have phone records that proves this.I never agreed to take the car back, because I knew that there are still issues. They called me on 7/14 (Fri), 7/17 (Mon), and drove it down to my house on 7/18, after telling me that it’s “safe” to drive the car. My complaint was never about safety, however. I had a strong impression that they just wanted to “push out” to car to me and sweep the problems under the carpet.  On the day they dropped off the car, the car’s sunroof started to produce new noises. I captured multiple dozens of instances of them on cell phone camera. Also, back in June, I was able to capture videos of the glove box producing rattling noise. (I would be glad to share all the videos with anyone, if desired)  As you can see below, I sent an email to the general manager at *** of Rochester last Tuesday (a full week ago) and on Friday asking him for a resolution. Disappointingly, still no response to date. The emails I exchanged with *** are copied and pasted below for your reference.  I have spent enough time and emotions on this issue, and no longer wish to take on the mental burden of dealing with this car and the folks at *** of Rochester. As such, I would like to ask them to purchase the car back from me. I would like them to communicate with me via email (vs. phone calls); I had to deal with multiple people there at the business, and it feels like I am up against a whole group of people arguing that there’s nothing wrong with the car, when in fact, evidence on my phone video clearly refute their claim. Hi ******,I am writing to follow up on the email I sent you Tuesday night and ask you whether you had any thoughts to share.  Please let me know how you suggest we proceed.  Even if the answer is “No,” please let me know as your answer will guide me through the course of actions I will have to take. Also, yesterday (July 20th) afternoon, I took the car out and captured multiple instances of the sunroof producing undesired noise on my ****** video – although I ***’t even know why I even had to do this.  At the risk of stating the obvious, if my ****** can hear it, I can hear it very well and the noise is annoying.  I’d be very happy to send you the video clips, so please let me know of your cell phone number, in case you’d like to receive the videos. As mentioned, the current sunroof noise sounds very different from the type that was there before I sent the car back up a couple of weeks ago.  This time, it’s more like “vibration” noise whereas it sounded like rain drops falling on the roof after the car came back after the first attempt to rectify the two other noise issues.  *** told me that he had heard the sunroof noise while he was driving it up there a couple of weeks ago – you could ask him what it sounded like back then, if interested. One thing I am noticing is that when the passenger seat is occupied, I ***’t hear any noise; I’m not sure whether there’s a cause and effect relationship, but it appears as if there is a correlation. Anyways, while I appreciate *** of Rochester’s efforts to rectify the technical issues with the vehicle, given the disappointing outcomes, I am left with no other choice than to turn this car back in.  Again, I would appreciate it if you could please let me know even if the answer is “No.” I look forward to receiving a response. Thank you. ****** As you know, *** drove my car back this morning. I was excited to have the vehicle back, but to my dismay, a few minutes after *** left, I drove the car around in the neighborhood and started to hear noise again. This time, the sunroof was producing a different type of noise - not quite the same as before I sent it up your way. I called *** to see if he could return so that he could hear it while I was driving the car. While I was making loops around the neighborhood, the sunroof noise was very obvious. And while I was waiting for *** to make it back, however, I slid the passenger side seat to make room for him then the noise subsided and once he was actually in the car while I was driving, alghouth it wasn't as loud and clear as it was when I called him to see if he could return, it was clearly audible to me during the first few minutes (even though *** says he couldn't hear them) and a few minutes later, I could no longer hear anything from the roof either. While I was driving with him, I could also hear the side window noise also through my left ear - not constant, but it comes and goes - not as intense as it used to be in some instances, but definitely enough to distract and annoy me while driving.  And I did hear a very slight rattling noise coming from the glove box today. (One of ****** technicians has heard it once also, when I first took it up there on 6/10. Also, the videos I sent show them too)  In the evening, when I was giving my daughter a ride somewhere, though, the car was perfectly fine, and I couldn't hear any noise whatsoever even after dropping her off at her destination. What really drives me bananas is that the noises from three different sources come and go. I am very frustrated with how the car is behaving, and I can also imagine that your service center folks might have similar feelings as I do, as they want to be helpful but they can't be because the noise can't be reproduced. I appreciate you guys' recent attempts to resolve the issues and the kind gestures you've shown through ***, but I am really not sure if the issues are resolvable, especially given that no one (including myself) seems to be able to reproduce it or clearly identify the conditions under which the noises occur. To that point, I was wondering if there is any way to sell this car back to you guys.  I would also be open to hearing about any other ideas you might be able to offer, especially since you've had lots of experiences, as *** mentioned. I am not trying to be difficult in any way, but I have never driven a car like this before, and am just not sure if I can drive this car for years to come. Thank you. ******-- Hi *****, I'd be very glad to get my car back, but were you able to identify the root cause of the noises coming from the driver side window and from the glove compartment and rectify the issues? I imagine you heard the rattling noise caught on the video clips I sent. Even ****** driver heard the glove compartment noise, but wasn't able to replicate it. (and like I said yesterday, neither could I, but I know it for a fact that there's a problem, proven by the video clips I sent) If you folks are certain that the problems have somehow been fixed, you can ask *** to drop it off here at ** ******* *** ******* ***** **, but I am a bit concerned that the problem is still there. Obviously, just because you didn't hear the noise today/recently, you can't prematurely conclude that the problem somehow went away, and *** of Rochester proved this point nearly a month ago. If you just fixed the sunroof noise, we're merely back at where I was when I drove the car up there more than a month ago - back then, I had issues with the side window and the glove compartment. The sunroof noise issue emerged after ****** folks attempted to fix the side window problem. If you put yourself into my shoes, it shouldn't be too difficult to understand where I am coming from. All that being said, again, if you're certain that the car no longer has issues, I'd be excited to get it back here, so please send me a text message and ask *** to drop it off. Thank you. ****** I had both my shop foreman and a valet driver test drive your vehicle yesterday afternoon.  They did not hear anything out of the ordinary.   I had ****** drive the vehicle as well because he has an **.  He did not hear anything different than what he hears with his vehicle.  So all good news!   *** is here tomorrow and I can have him bring your vehicle back to you if you are available to switch.  I just need to know what address you would like us to go to.   ***** ****** Warranty Admin *** of Rochester t******@westherr.com ************ Regards,  ****** *****

  Business response

  08/07/2023

  BBB spoke to ****** at business and the following was relayed: The issues the customer is reporting are characteristics of the vehicle. The sunroof issue was addressed and the seal replaced. It was defective, the vehicle was brought back and we replaced again. The customer has sent videos where we cannot hear and it has not been reproduced here at the dealership. We had the *** service representative come and inspect and determined there is nothing wrong with the car. We are unable to purchase the car back, we have spent approximately $2,000 to try and keep the customer satisfied. We did previously offer the customer $200 gift card for goodwill for prior communication issues while I was away on vacation.

  Customer response

  08/07/2023

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.    *** of Rochester claiming that they couldn't hear anything from the video I sent is not agreeable. I can send it to you (BBB) in case you're interested – I have no problem proving the validity of my claims, which the dealership keeps on denying. While I appreciate the $2,000 effort they made, it unfortunately did not fix any problem; as mentioned, the vehicle has been producing NEW noise since it came back after the most recent visit to their shop. I have offered them the video clips that clearly show what kind of new noise it's producing but they’ve been ghosting me. The bottom line is, very unfortunately, almost every time I drive the vehicle, I hear the noises, and thus, I know that the vehicle is not free of problems. I have neither ever driven a car like this in my entire life nor made any sort of complaints on vehicles I have ever purchased in the past.  Regards,  ****** *****

  Customer response

  08/29/2023

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  I am not sure how *** of Rochester has determined that they’ll lose $9K if they take the car back, but here’s my proposal to resolve this: 1.       I paid >$40K for the car after taxes and fees – just call that $40K 2.       The selling price, excluding sales tax and fees, was >$38K – just call that $38K 3.       If they indeed lose $9K, that implies they’ll have to re-sell it for $29K (again, no clue where this came from, but they’ll be able to collect fees again if they somehow re-sell it) 4.       The mid-point of $40K and $29K is $34.5K 5.       Therefore, I am suggesting they buy the car back for $34.5.   Regards,  ****** *****

  Customer response

  09/22/2023

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.  I was finally able to get the vehicle returned back to *** of Rochester. This has been resolved.  Regards,  ****** *****

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩