ComplaintsforSleep Cycle Center

• Initial Complaint

  03/28/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  My son, *************************, is 27 years old and has been diagnosed with a serious mental health diagnosis after some very reckless behaviors. During this time, he went to Sleep Cycle Center because his girlfriend had told him he snored. Anyone that dealt with my son during this time, especially someone in healthcare, would have seen that he was clearly not mentally well. ****** was told by Sleep Cycle Center that his insurance would cover costs (August 2023) for their diagnosis of him (which was apparently a mild case). Shortly afterwards he lost his job and Sleep Cylce Center then told him he could use **************** In October 2023, ****** called the office to report no longer wanting to proceed. He was in a state of psychosis, later reported to me that the mouthpiece he received from Sleep Cycle Center was thrown away because he thought it was going to kill him. Sleep Cycle Center eventually turned his account to collections. I have been in ****** with my son for 3 weeks now and he is finally receiving treatment to stabilize. I have resolved all other creditor issues that ****** had made during this time, but I have had no resolution with the collection agency that Sleep Cycle Center turned it over to or with them either. I left messages with ****** at Sleep Cycle Center, who until I threatened leaving bad reviews and reaching out to BBB, he did not return my call. We just spoke and apparently this is a two year program that costs about $10,000 and currently ****** had a few months with them (a few appointments), a mouthpiece and as of two weeks ago a $10,107.24 bill that continues to climb. This is for services not rendered and they are unwilling to resolve and agree to anything less. On a side note, I am staying with my son and he has not snored in the 3 weeks that Ive been here. Is this healthcare?

  Business response

  03/28/2024

  This is ************************ the owner of Sleep Cycle Center. I want to first start off by saying that we do a complete workup on all patients which means:

  1)We screen for sleep apnea first with a screener called the stop bang. It is 90% accurate at identifying who has sleep apnea without a test.

  2)If the stop bang is positive they are schedule with one of our providers to discuss their issues and to ascertain what is going on. They are also educated on why we sleep and what happens when we sleep. They are also educated on the disease process of sleep apnea

  3)We next take photos of the patients profile, mouth, airway and perform 2 CTs to be able to see the airway while awake. It is at this point we will decide if the patient needs a sleep study

  4)The patient goes home with a "Watch Pat One", the most technologically superior home sleep test you can get.

  5)Results are all complied signed off on and interpreted by one of 2 board certified sleep physicians. These results are then covered in great detail along with treatment options and financial responsibilities to move forward with each treatment.

  Most of what we do is making custom devices to either keep open the airway while the patient sleeps or to regrow a deficiency in the airway. A financial agreement is presented in all cases and signed off on by the patient. This FA that is signed either covers them for 1 year of treatment or 2 years depending on what treatment they pick. Each device is custom to their mouth or nose and can not be returned. This is all explained to each patient from the start and it is covered again at delivery. 

  I physically saw ****** for his treatment since July of 2023. He signed the delivery paperwork and took ownership of his device and even returned to the office several times as directed. As a provider in sleep I am there to help people with their disease and it is not in my scope of practice to identify those that are having mental difficulties. Furthermore I am not qualified to do so. ****** to me seemed like a perfectly normal almost 30 year old adult. 

  ****** decided to move forward on his own and decided to finance his treatment with a 3rd party vendor. He made a comment that he would pay this off when his lawsuit with his employer funds. He also has a signed financial agreement and 3rd party billing paperwork if you would like to see it. We have provided this to ****** in his portal.

  In closing we provide medical equipment that can not be reused that cost a significant amount of money to create. There are followup visits over 1-2 years, more CTS, and sleep studies. We do not bill per visit since the cost would be well over $15,000 if we billed per occurrence. This is also explain to every patient. We also do not start a case like this without securing funding since life events like this one can happen and this would prevent the health of our patients from getting better. ****** chose to destroy his device and not continue with treatment. He did this against all recommendations from us. I am also curious what other debt he had that was custom made. Some debt is easier to forgive because there is something that is tangible (like taking back a car, apartment, etc)

  My question back is what are the rules for someone placing a complaint with the BBB. ****** is the patient but he has never complained with any service we have provided. I am curious how a mom can come in almost a year later and be as demanding as she has been. She has taken up 2 hours of my teams time trying to force her way and trying to tell us our business and what we should do. We are a small company and have to protect ourselves against buyers remorse and I guess parents now. In my opinion if she knew her son was having a mental break and was "not capable" of making a financial decision why was he not in a facility or his family coming with him? Where is the letter from his doctor back then and now showing she has power of attorney for her son. Sleep apnea can cause massive switches in mood (anxiety and depression). Why would his collections proceedings with a 3rd party also be our fault. If mom truly cares for her son and his health she should have been here with him for every visit or pay his debt off. His total bill before collects was $9750, this included the financial cost as well with the 3rd party. His portion with us would be $8500.

  The billing medical insurance, it was explained to ****** that we could try to recoup some of the cost by making him a second device. He chose not to come back in to make this happen. This would have taken 3 additional visits. We could not guarantee that his insurance would have paid anything. Especially being on Cobra it can be difficult to have benefits. This was all explained to ****** as well. Please let me know if there is anything else that you all require. I will tell you if this was a ****** review it would already be taken down since the mom is not a patient of record and ****** is an adult. 

  Customer response

  03/28/2024

  Complaint: 21499214
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

  Thank you for the response. This is the first that I have ever heard from ****************. I have not demanded or forced my way as he stated, but I have left unreturned messages with both ****** and ***** (who answered the phones) since last week in trying to resolve this account. I was connected to ******, the Director of Operations, last week and he said he would speak to the doctor and get back to me. As of yesterday, 3/27/24, he had not returned my call, so I called again and spoke to ***** and let her know the situation and that I needed to reach a resolution or I would be reaching out to BBB, as well as write negative reviews on our experience to date since no one was calling me back. ****** then finally called back apologetically for not returning my calls and set an appointment today, 3/28/24, at 10am so that we could come to a resolution. Im not sure where Dr. ******* accusations of demanding, forcing my way and taking 2 hours of his team's time comes from?
  
  
  I called ****** at 10am this morning, who initially was very pleasant and agreed we come to a resolution. It became clear that no resolution was in sight, he kept explaining to me about medical devices and using medical terminology, which I told him wasnt the point. He was simply telling me why he thought my son owed now over $10,000, not working on a resolution. The point was that my son was in acute mania last summer (until recently) and I am trying to help him resolve owing over $10,000 for a mouthpiece, along with a few appointments. There is no medical equipment as the doctor stated, it is literally a mouthpiece. ****** continued to talk above me. I asked him why the office had not submitted a claim to my sons insurance, as he was originally told. He did not answer that, but instead said that more imprints were needed at that point so they could submit it to COBRA. So, what happened to originally submitting to insurance, as they told my son? Even the doctors response states that they could recoup cost by making a 2nd device plus 3 additional visits"? So, at this point, they knew my son had lost his job, had never planned to submit it to his original insurance and wanted to make an additional mouthpiece and 3 visits to possibly get COBRA to pay something? Why would anyone add additional expenses to possibly get a little back? Again, what happened to originally submitting to insurance, as my son was told? I would like them to answer this question. And, WHY would they have had ****** sign something with a 3rd party vendor when they said insurance would cover it? ****** was on the family insurance policy until he was 26, so when he was told that insurance would cover, this is what he believed. 
  
  
  During our phone conversation, with no resolution, ****** also made a jab that my son was 27 and had his mother calling. The doctor seems to think that ****** seemed like a perfectly normal almost 30 year old adult. Mental illness does not have an age limit and our family is dealing with a tremendous amount of stress after ****** has finally come down into deep depression and is now finally agreeing to get help. He is not in the mental state to deal with this situation, which is now in collections for over $10,000. I dont appreciate the comments about why he wasnt in a facility or why we werent coming with him or why if mom truly cares for her son and his health she should have been here with him for every visit or pay his debt off. I tried to unsuccessfully resolve the debt but ****** wasnt willing to budge. And, as they said, putting a 27 year old in a facility DOES NOT happen without their consent, which ****** would not do. ****** was clearly very manic and clearly very unstable and although its not Dr. ******* responsibility, Im shocked that he didnt notice? My son told him he would, pay this off when his lawsuit with his employer funds. ****** told me that ****** called in October and said that he no longer wanted to proceed because there were too many coincidences between the doctor and ******* ex girlfriend being from ***********, **. Thats not a strange message? If nothing else, I have called as a mother trying to support her son and told them what has/had transpired, including ****** throwing his mouthpiece out because he thought it was going to kill him. So, ****** does have a VERY good family that is trying to support him the best possible, including resolving this bill! I didnt have to call at all. And, if the doctor wonders why it is almost a year later, it is about 9 months later and there is a collection agency that just started contacting his father. So, my question would not be about the loving and caring support that ****** comes from, but why someone in the business of healthcare cannot understand this absolutely devastating situation and try to find resolution? ****** did not get 2 years of services and has nothing to show for it except an apparent mild diagnosis of sleep apnea.
  
  
  Upon looking at the ****** reviews for Sleep Cycle Center, there were a handful of bad reviews, along with good reviews. However, three of the one star, bad reviews pertained to the issues of insurance and the legitimacy of what the company told them regarding insurance coverage. It seems that others have had this same experience. I am happy to provide the reviews, but here are the recaps:
  (1) One of the one star reviews that relates to insurance/billing states they felt scammed" when told they needed to pay $3500 for a dental device and $8600 for another device insurance would not cover and had a very disturbing experience. 
  (2) Another one star review states she felt her "experience was a complete scam" after most websites list the cost as about $2000, but Sleep Center charged her insurance $9750 and collected her full deductible plus co-insurance, equaling $1100. Months later the patient realized her deductible had not been met because Sleep Center did not send her insurance the necessary information, so the the $1100 was not applied to her deductible. 
  (3) The next one star review states, BUYER BEWARE AND KNOW YOUR INSURANCE. This patient was told they had a $6500 deductible on their insurance which hadnt been met, so the doctor told him they were going to be gracious and give the cash pay rate of $3500. They refused the contracted rate of $2100 with insurance until deductible was met. Patient called his insurance and found out that he didnt have a deductible. 
  
  
  I appreciate you reviewing this complaint, which I feel very strongly is valid. Please let me know what else I can provide.
  
  
  Thank you,
  
  
  ***********************
  *************

  Business response

  04/01/2024

  *************** you for your time and commitment to your son's care. As it is, we maintain the message that was delivered in the original rebuttal. As we strive to operate with facts over feelings, we are happy to provide any supporting documentation that is asked for. It does feels at this point in time that we have reached an impasse. Rather than risk repeating what has already been said, we maintain that our practices remain above board and that patient care is our number one priority.

  To BBB, due to the nature of this complaint not originating from a patient in our practice, we respectfully ask that you resolve this matter in our favor. Please let us know if there is anything additional we can offer to ensure an expeditious resolution.

  Respectfully,

  *************************, Owner: Sleep Cycle Center

  Customer response

  04/01/2024

  Complaint: 21499214
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I agree that we are at an impasse. I also have a few questions/comments that I would ask ****** at BBB to please consider with Sleep Cycle Center in resolving this matter:
  1. A fact that I have asked for, not a feeling, is still why my sons insurance was not billed when he was told insurance would cover? Next, why was I told that billing could have occurred from COBRA, but only if more imprints, mouthpiece, etc were made? This does not make sense. From the reviews sent, it is clear that Sleep Cycle Center is not clear about billing insurance. Two of the reviews called it a scam, same sentiment here.
  2. An additional fact is that ****** signed a HIPAA form so that I could discuss his case with ****** or anyone else. He has asked me to help him resolve this issue while he is trying to recover without great amounts of stress, as this has already caused us as a family. Arguably he didnt have the capacity to make health care decisions when entering Sleep Cycle Center and did. 
  3. How long did ****** receive care? I was told by ****** it would have been a 2 year plan and ****** was there for 3 months, at most.
  4. Was ****** ever under the care of an ENT or Otolaryngologist at your office? I see another review that says after going o Sleep Cycle Center, he went to an ENT that told him the issue was his tonsils, not sleep apnea. 
  5. And, for the test performed of a Watch Pat One where ****** says he had a finger and wrist monitor attached while he slept at home, I read on *********** site and others that providers usually recommend polysomnography in a sleep facility, rather than a home sleep test. The portable monitoring (home devices) sometimes miss sleep apnea. This again points to the very minimal care ****** received over a short amount of time where the doctor wishes to collect monies that I feel are not owed to him, in addition to him now wanting interest on that amount. I would ask that Sleep Cycle Center show us what they think is worth $10,000 of service. And, I would also ask that they answer the questions about insurance not being billed, later wanting to add more cost to bill COBRA (which also never was billed) and why a third party vendor agreement would have been asked to be signed when insurance was covering. 
  

  I appreciate everyones time in resolving this matter.
  
  
  ***********************

  
  Regards,
  
  ***********************

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