ComplaintsforE.L.S. Landscaping & Lawn Service LLC

• Initial Complaint

  11/30/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Contacted ELS Landscaping in April 2022 because of pooling water in the swale behind my house. When ******************* came to look at the issue, I asked if a french drain or pumps are needed to fix the ********** told me that only yard grading is needed and that they will grade it farther & differently. The proposal was sent back at the beginning of May for $4,441.55 which I've paid in full. The work was eventually done in July. I contacted them right after because with the exception of raising up 1 area a little bit, there was no change in the original grade. When I called about the same grade, he said there was a *****. There is no *****. In August, I emailed him pictures because the exact same water pooling and flooding happened. Nothing was done & no one even came to look. In August, I contacted them again for the same water pooling, and I also asked them to come fix the erosion netting that was sticking up everywhere. He told me to go cut it myself. Then he told me that the netting would degrade in a few months. Ridiculous because the netting is plastic. They came by to re-grass in September but nothing else was fixed. In mid September, I emailed again with pictures as water flooded in the exact same spots. I had to contact them twice before anyone answered. In October, people came and all they did was put more dirt on the problem areas. **** calls me back and tells me, "there will always be some pooling," yet pooling water was the exact thing they were supposed to fix. In early November, I emailed them more pictures of the exact same flooding. Because all they did was put dirt on the problem, now the water pooling is also on the patio and if it rains enough, water is in the basement. Even now, step in it and your foot sinks straight into deep water pools and mud. I've contacted them twice this latest time and I've been ignored for over 3 weeks now. No more bad fixes that do nothing. At this rate, I'll even accept a 50% refund.

  

  Business response

  12/02/2022

  12/4/22
  Re: 18485425
  Dear BBB,
  *************** to a complaint made by a past customer ****************  When reviewing the property last Spring, it was like a river in his back yard along with a lot of standing water in areas.  I told him that his neighboring property are shedding water to his house always causing water saturation after any type of rainfall especially heavy events or when the ground is still frozen.  His house does sit substantially lower than then the property behind him which is where the problem mainly exists.  We had discussed an external pump which is not an option for anyone living in this climate and also the thought of doing a French drain.  We try to avoid French drains at all costs as even putting them within a drainage bed of stone with filter fabric wrapping, they tend to fail from tree roots and debris that works it's way into the system over the years.  I knew it would be a slight pitch to get all the water out of his back yard right after a rain, hence why I made the note within our proposal which he attached for you to view as well.
  After our first visit on 7/8/2022, we did not receive payment until 8/27/22 after a few attempts to collect.  We did receive an email from ***** on 8/3/2022 after almost 1 of rainfall saying that there are still some pools of water, areas where still soft when walking on and no grass growth per his attached email.  Any newly area graded with soil is going to be soft until the grass gets established which I tried to explain to him as well.  We were able to get over there on 9/7/2022 to fix the grass growing issue (Which was on both high sides of the swale that wasnt growing telling me it wasnt being watered)but also to fix a few of the low areas after a rain best as possible. There is a existing underlying ***** on the North side of his property by the Lilac shrubs which we had to work around.  Also, per his statement I told him that the erosion netting may need to be pulled up not to get tangled into the mower as the *** in ********* had changed the straw netting requirements which takes additional time to deteriorate, so his comment of it being plastic can be taken up with the ***.  Nothing we can as a landscaper do much about.  If we did not use the erosion netting,Im sure he would be complaining about all the soil eroding back into the swale area, so we werent going to make him happy either way.
  Then ***** emailed us on 9/15/2022 a day after another heavy 1 + rainfall saying that he still has pooling issues.  This time, not only my guys but myself was on site grading the areas and taking readings with our laser transit to make sure the area was graded the best possible. 
  As per my proposal and doing extensive drainage work for the past 25+ years, I noted to this customer (***************) that with the elevation of his house and his neighboring property we could get a majority of the water away, but it would linger for a day or so thereafter to drain out slowly or saturate into the existing ground.   His emails a day or so after a heavy rain to us prove that he just wants a dry lawn after a heavy rain which would not be possible unless he was able to raise his house 2-3+ which isnt doable as well.
  We have over 2.5 times the cost of the original proposal invested into working with this customer with the 3 visits to appease him and his expectations.  We do our best to accommodate all our customers to the best of our ability while also dealing with Mother Nature.   
  I have attached the previous emails, along with the rainfall data within our region for your reference as well.  I am hoping we can resolve this amicably matter as well?  Please let me know if you have any further questions or what next steps would be on our end?
  Sincerely, *******************
  

  Customer response

  12/05/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  I can understand that ELS Landscaping frames me as a difficult customer, but the reality is I don't require perfection or a perfectly dry lawn. I've said to **** many times that all I want is for there not be all this pooling water. I wouldn't say a thing if it was a little water, especially after heavy rains. All that is understandable, but I'm referring to an inch of water sitting there for 2 weeks in multiple pools. After the work was initially done, there was a lighter rain and I called to tell them about pooling for the first time. Because they didn't believe me, I started using email with pictures after that. Every time, I wait multiple days, not 1 day, before emailing them pictures, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. At the beginning, if they had told me that even after the work is done, the same pooling water problem will persist, why would I agree to that. I agreed because I was told they would address the pooling problem issue.  I have pictures and a yard you can look at after it rains.
  
  Regards,
  
  ***************

  

  Business response

  01/05/2023

  In Response:
  Once again as my proposal stated and had told the customer that the water would not drain very quickly and would take some time.  When meeting with ***** the first time about his project there was standing water within his back yard for at least *****' that was not draining.  The problem is the elevation of the house along with adjoining properties draining towards Dannys residence I dont feel even a French drain would be sufficient. 
  The one thing that might be an option would be to find a specific spot within the swale to place a large catch basin and pitch all the water to that low area.  There would still need to be a small area of French drain installed along the very back portion of the house outside of the patio which would also drain into the basin.  Then from the basin to the ditch line area would be a solid SDR 35 drain tile to daylight and spill into the ditch.  This however would be an extensive project and still feel he would have some very slow-moving water for a duration of time because there still would be minimum pitch.  Not sure if that is the best answer, but another option.   Like I had mentioned in my previous message,it would be nice if the house was set at a higher grade, but that isnt an option either.  No matter what is done,there is going to be excessive moisture within that swale for a few days after a rain.
  Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.   Thanks, ****

  Customer response

  01/06/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  

  On day 1, I asked **** if they could fix the pooling water in the yard and he said they could. Until this BBB process, I was never told of all these excuses like raising house, always water pooling, always slow draining. If I was told, I would never have asked them to do the work. I would never have paid thousands of dollars for no reason. If you cant fix something, then from the beginning just say you cant fix it. If you knew that the work wouldn't fix the problem because of all the reasons you mentioned, then from the beginning tell me it wouldn't.

  Even now, there is a long deep stream (thick ice when below 32 degrees). Not moisture, not wet, not sloshy; its 1 inch pools and as of right now a deep stream. Every day for months now, theres also a stream of water that goes into my basement. Both things didnt continuously happen until ESLs work. And even if youre arguing slow draining, its been months. I continue to take pictures and Ive attached some that are time-stamped from December 13, BEFORE the latest round of rain even started. Ive also attached a time-stamped picture of the stream that I took today.

  
  Regards,
  
  ***************

  

  Business response

  02/10/2023

  In response:
  As you can see within those attached pictures there is a lot of run off from customers house going towards swale which collects the water.  As I had stated before, we graded the swale area using a laser transit making sure it had proper pitch which is minimal (Hence the notation in proposal about water not going to drain quickly) but it is draining/pitched towards customers ditch line.  You can also see that the water is not running towards the house, but the intended area, so I do not know why the customer is all of a sudden getting water in his basement.  I dislike unhappy customers and feel we did our best with addressing his site (3) times.  This is a very rare situation and wished we were able to satisfy the customers needs, but with so much water running towards his house and the house being set so low, its very difficult not knowing what Mother Nature has in store with precipitation.
  Not sure there is much more that can be done on our end.  Please let me know if you have any further questions. 
  Thanks, ****

  Customer response

  02/13/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  Again, if you have all these reasons for not being able to fix the water pooling problem, you are supposed to tell a customer from the beginning. If you are not able to grade a yard properly, you need to tell a customer from the beginning. You cannot just tell me constantly that it can be fixed, make me pay you thousands, and leave the yard worse than it was.  It's actually dangerous out there. My kids can't go near it or they fall.  And address 3 times?  You tried and failed to address the flooding just 1 time. The other times you were there to fix cosmetic issues. And when I asked you to fix the flooding the second time, you ignored me until I told the BBB. I don't understand why you don't see this. You tell me about 20 years of experience yet somehow you leave a mess with the same problems as before and tell me the work is fine. Just refund me so I ask someone else to do the work.
  
  Regards,
  
  ***************

  

  Business response

  02/19/2023

  BBB and ***************,
  I am not here to make excuses, but rather say that it is better than when I first visited your site which I do know.   I do recall you telling me that your children on our first visit being in the front yard had asked you if I was there to fix the river.  There after of us being there it was an issue of the grass not growing (Bare Areas), But now its an issue of standing water, water in your basement, etc.   The water in your basement could be a whole separate issue as well, but its not like we graded everything towards your house to cause such.    As said before you have a lot of water running towards your dwelling which can be difficult to control in certain weather conditions.  (I.E. Frozen Ground, Saturated Ground, ETC).   
  I do not want to cause any resentment or hard feelings, but as I told the customer and even stated within our proposal that this project would allow the water to flow towards the ditch line, but would move at a very slow pace taking time even if it meant a few days depending on the weather and mother nature.   
  I will say that any project over $2,000 would and should be collected within a week or less and has always been the case for us, but the customer decided to not pay for over 50 days of the balance owed as well. We also did not pursue or say he owes more due to labor and material as well even though during that time frame materials added fuel surcharges to our budget as we have had to apply those to other projects to cover our costs.
  I realize that the BBB is important to us being a small business and we try our best as to keeping all our customers very satisfied with our workmanship.  In saying such, the ones that are happy do not reply to the BBB, its those who are not happy such as yourself.  Us dealing with over 60-80+new customers a year and having (1) unhappy customer does affect us and we do our best to address the issues to the best of our ability and have proven successful at such if there were any issues.  
  We do sincerely appreciate your business, but feel that at this point in time it would be best to cut our losses as we did not profit and lost money as well from this project having (3) separate visits involved with our employees.  With having twice as much invested into materials and labor for your project trying to resolve such, E.L.S Landscaping is not willing to compensate, nor return any monies paid.  Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns. 
  Thanks, ****

  Customer response

  02/21/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  The issue is not just water in basement.  The issue is after your regrading work that you said would fix pooling water, it didn't fix the problem at all.  It got worse.  The pooling in a few places became flooding all over the place.  The basement water didn't happen until after your regrading work and still continues now.  You cannot just say you will fix something, then try it a few times, make the problem worse, and then just give up.  You keep saying I'm unhappy.  I'm not unhappy for no reason.  I'm unhappy because you didn't do what you said, left a flood in the yard, and then refused to fix it or refund.
  
  Regards,
  
  ***************

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