Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  24/04/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I had a leak in a humidifier line on April 2nd. I was referred to ***** ****r Plumbing and he told me via text he had time in the afternoon to look at it for me. He arrived at 2pm and then left at 3pm to go to **** ***** to find a fitting that would go into my humidifier. He showed back up at 5pm where he told me he was unable to find a fitting and that he would use one he has in his truck. He finished up at 5:30 and left. I received a bill two days later for a total of $1,030.58. I was charged 4.5 hours for Service for a total of $517.50 I was charged for Consumables for $95 I was charged for Parts for a total of $319.00 My concerns are: 1.***** ****r was at my house for less then 2 hours but charged me 4.5. He charged me for driving around looking for a part that he “couldn’t locate”. But then ends up using a part he already had in his possession. I have questioned him on the hourly charge numerous times but I can’t get a straight answer. He had told me he was getting a part, he did not communicate with me that it would take 2.5 hours. I had to track him down at 5pm to find out where he was. 2.The parts do not add up to $319.00. We’ve asked for details in the bill but he has not supplied that for us and has stop communicating with us on it. He reiterated that he uses only the best parts but a 10 foot flexihose and a fitting and material for a copper pipe cannot equal $319.00 without a 1000% upcharge on the parts. He knew that I was a woman looking for an emergency plumber and he fully took advantage of my lack of knowledge. He never explained or laid out the additional costs to me and I feel like he took advantage of a vulnerable woman who need her water turned back on. He kept referring to a flood, which there was not. It leaked a little onto a cardboard box and I was able to clean that up with a towel. I have no damage at all as I was able to turn off the water right away.

  Business response

  01/05/2024

  I received a text from ****** ******** on the morning of April 2nd 2024 in regards to an issue with her humidifier unit/ supply line which caused flooding in her basement area. The water supply was isolated at the main supply water meter by ****** and required attendance as soon as possible as requested by client as she was in a panic and had no water to the house.
  Several calls and messages were exchanged to arrange the call out.
  
  I attended the same day after rearranging my days work schedule and arrived on site at 1.42pm.
  ****** then proceeded to make me wait outside her house until she returned from taking something to her child at school so I prepared my tools ready for her return which was after 2pm.
  
  I proceeded to inspect the repairs required and scope.
  The supply line and valve installed were not up to code and failed due to incorrect application.
  
  I discussed the scope of the job required with ****** prior to starting any work and she agreed to the repairs as I stated would be required for fault free operation of the unit.

  
  
  I stated that the current installation was incorrect and required amending to adapt to correct code specifications. She agreed to this work.
  
  I started to repair as per scope and found I required a specialty part which I do not carry as it is not a normal everyday item, so I left the premises after I informed ****** that I had to source these specialty parts to allow reconnection of the humidifier.
  
  Specialty parts are not included in my stock and are generally hard to find in Alberta and therefore on this occasion I made phone calls and drove to suppliers to try and locate this now hard to find replacement part to repair the unit in the most efficient and cost effective manner for the customer.
  At no time did I state that I had all the components I diagnosed to replace on my vehicle.
  
  All parts I use are professional plumbing grade parts with warranties. This reflects the products quality & price.
  
  I returned to site just before 5pm and proceeded to carry out remaining repairs and installations with specialty parts purchased. Purged air from domestic water and humidifier systems and test ran.
  I tested humidifier and related parts installed and found all operations to be correct and no leaks. All ok.
  I finished the job at 5.37pm and informed ****** that the job was completed and I was packing up my tools and equipment.
  
  My operational hours are 7 am until 4 pm.
  I worked overtime for no extra charge and only charged a normal time rate to look after the clients  repair costs on this occasion. My hourly rates/prices are more than fair.
  
  For the equipment to operate correctly I needed to install 35 feet of wirsbo pex, humidifier supply brass ball valve, threaded couplings/inserts and ferrils, pex T, oring seals, heat shield insert, actetylene gas, crimp rings, copper tube, seals and inserts, repaired copper pipework, do tie in of supply line cold water header as per code, stainless steel flexible supply line, specialty humidifier insert seal and retainer to adapt over to sold line ensuring no future failure.
  
  As a service to my customers my trailer is full of spare parts. These parts accommodate for the repair and installation of various new and historic housing/condo/high rise plumbing and boiler applications throughout Alberta.
  
  In summary the builders plumber failed to install the humidifier line with correct products to code and incorrect installation procedures which ended in catastrophic failure and a flood.

  My invoice is more than fair and accommodating as as stated only charged the normal hourly rate.
  
  All my work completed has a lifetime workmanship warranty.
  
  As a plumbing professional it's my job to ensure all families safety and investments are protected.
  
  My policy is to offer all customers as much information as possible to avoid miscommunication and is always implemented.

  
  

  Customer response

  02/05/2024

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  1. I was not in a panic when I reached out to ***** ****r.  I had already shut off the water to the hose.  

  2. I text ***** ****r at 1:43 to let him know I had to run out.  I arrived back at my house at 1:50, not after 2pm as ***** ****r has stated. I have a ring camera and I can show the evidence of this.

  3. I originally wanted the hose replaced. He said he had to replace the valve and a fitting as well.  He did not disclose the pricing to me at any time. 

  4. The fitting to the humidifier was apparently a special part.  At 3:02 ***** ****r left my house to go get this part.  I did not hear from him for two hours. I phoned him at 5:02 to find out where he was.  He stated he drove all over looking for this fitting and didn't find what he was looking for so he used a part from his van.  I questioned as to why he didn't do that in the first place.  It is confusing to us that he phoned these businesses and then drove to different places and still couldn't locate it. And then used a part he had already.   The timing doesn't line up.  The hours of driving around doesn't add up either.  

  5. ***** ****r arrived back at my house not at 5pm but at 5:15pm and put in the fitting and left at 5:37.  

  6.  The hourly rate is not what we are disputing, it is the 2.5 hours of extra charge.  How does a person charge time for a service that was not provided?  I shouldn't be made to pay for the fact that he didn't know what kind of part was needed and then was missing in action for two hours with no communication. The fact that he phoned these businesses and then drove around too doesn't make sense either.  

  7. My furnace room where the hose is located is 10 feet by 10 feet.  There is no way 35 feet of pex was used, the line measures at most 15 feet.   Again- we are not disputing that parts used. We asked for a detailed price list of the parts and ***** ****r refused to provide this. His invoice states a general "Parts" and "Consumables".  We have since looked at other plumber's bills and each one is broken down for service and parts prices.  ***** ****r over-inflated the price of his parts and refuses to give us the price of what these parts actually cost.  We priced it out ourselves and there is absolutely no comparison to the amount listed on the invoice.  And there is the exaggeration of 35 feet  of hose used.  I can provide pictures of the hose if necessary to disprove this.

  8. There was no catastrophic failure. It was a leak from a hose.  There was no flood. it was a small puddle cleaned up by a towel.  ***** ****r exaggerated the scope of the situation. He also preyed on the fact that I had no plumbing knowledge.  He took advantage of the fact that I didn't know how to fix this leak.  He just kept talking about how the work reflects his "lifetime guarantee"  but deflected any talk on pricing. 

  We have since taken the bill to other plumbers and shown them the work and they have all been in agreement that this was not a $1000 job.  ***** ****r was vague and rushed through the situation to make is sound more complicated then it needed to be in order to make the job bigger and more expensive then it ever needed to be.  This is shameful business tactics.  

  We have submitted our payment as we don't want to be in arrears so we are asking for a $250 refund, which is more then fair taking into account the overcharge on both hours serviced and parts used.  

  ***** ****r should have honestly disclosed the price from the beginning as I never would have agreed on $1000 to fix a simple humidifier hose.  

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****** ********

  Business response

  03/05/2024

  Please see responses attached to each statement

  I do not accept any of the statements from ****** set out below.

  Many thanks

  ***** ****r

   

  I am rejecting this response because:
  1. I was not in a panic when I reached out to ***** ****r.  I had already shut off the water to the hose.  
     1 (a) * The sms I received from ****** was… QUOTE
      “My name is ****** ******** and my address is _ _ _      _ _ sw in *********. My husband  
       (who I FaceTimed in panic this morning) believes it to be a burst humidifier line”
  2. I text ***** ****r at 1:43 to let him know I had to run out.  I arrived back at my house at 1:50, not after 2pm as ***** ****r has stated. I have a ring camera and I can show the evidence of this.
       2 (a) * I was already at the property when ****** smsd me.
  3. I originally wanted the hose replaced. He said he had to replace the valve and a fitting as well.  He did not disclose the pricing to me at any time. 
       3 (a)* I stated the existing valve was not installed as per code required and was seized, leaking and damaged by force.
  Therefore I had to replace ALL the hose line as it was incorrect for this application and perished/leaking, all fittings and accessories required and retrofitting to enable replumbing of the new parts and adapt sizes to fit. The valve was installed in the incorrect position by the previous technician and required moving to correct this also. I stated I would need to rerough in a new line and parts etc and it may be a little more expensive as the parts are specialty items. At no stage did ****** ask about any specific pricing and told me to fix correctly whatever I needed to do to reinstate to correct operational order.
  
  4. The fitting to the humidifier was apparently a special part.  At 3:02 ***** ****r left my house to go get this part.  I did not hear from him for two hours. I phoned him at 5:02 to find out where he was.  He stated he drove all over looking for this fitting and didn't find what he was looking for so he used a part from his van.  I questioned as to why he didn't do that in the first place.  It is confusing to us that he phoned these businesses and then drove to different places and still couldn't locate it. And then used a part he had already.   The timing doesn't line up.  The hours of driving around doesn't add up either.  
        4 (a) * Specialty parts are not included in my stock and are generally hard to find in Alberta and therefore on this occasion I made phone calls and drove to suppliers to try and locate these now hard to find replacement parts to repair/adapt parts on the unit in the most efficient and cost-effective manner for the customer.
  At no time did I state that I had all the components I diagnosed to replace on my vehicle and yes I did buy more parts from 3 different suppliers and that’s why I was away from the customers home for a couple of hours. As well as travel to these 3 suppliers I also had to contend with peak hour traffic on the road.
  The times charged are correct.
  Charges started at 1.15pm and finished at 5.45pm = 4.5 hours as was invoiced.
  
  
  5. ***** ****r arrived back at my house not at 5pm but at 5:15pm and put in the fitting and left at 5:37.  
  6.  The hourly rate is not what we are disputing, it is the 2.5 hours of extra charge.  How does a person charge time for a service that was not provided?  I shouldn't be made to pay for the fact that he didn't know what kind of part was needed and then was missing in action for two hours with no communication. The fact that he phoned these businesses and then drove around too doesn't make sense either.  
        6 (a)* Charges started at 1.15pm and finished at 5.45pm = 4.5 hours as was invoiced.
  I was aware of what parts are available/required and I had to adapt existing fittings to accommodate for the retrofit and replacement of existing non *** compliant parts and had to purchase these products from 3 different suppliers to retrofit.
  See note 4. Reply for further response.
  
  
  7. My furnace room where the hose is located is 10 feet by 10 feet.  There is no way 35 feet of pex was used, the line measures at most 15 feet.   Again- we are not disputing that parts used. We asked for a detailed price list of the parts and ***** ****r refused to provide this. His invoice states a general "Parts" and "Consumables".  We have since looked at other plumber's bills and each one is broken down for service and parts prices.  ***** ****r over-inflated the price of his parts and refuses to give us the price of what these parts actually cost.  We priced it out ourselves and there is absolutely no comparison to the amount listed on the invoice.  And there is the exaggeration of 35 feet  of hose used.  I can provide pictures of the hose if necessary to disprove this.
     7 (a) * I don’t supply a “detailed” parts breakdown to my customers.
     I consulted ****** on the pricing and as I didn’t have specifics until I purchased the parts she
     was happy for the repairs to be carried out regardless.
     All my invoices are compiled by my accountant based on parts used on the job front. 
     Each service call is unique and invoiced amounts will vary on outcomes and existing equipment  
     and locations.
  
  8. There was no catastrophic failure. It was a leak from a hose.  There was no flood. it was a small puddle cleaned up by a towel.  ***** ****r exaggerated the scope of the situation. He also preyed on the fact that I had no plumbing knowledge.  He took advantage of the fact that I didn't know how to fix this leak.  He just kept talking about how the work reflects his "lifetime guarantee"  but deflected any talk on pricing. 
      8 (a) * I was called to ******s property for an emergency call out. Arriving on site there was water, towels and hoses on the mechanical room floor and shelves emptied around the water leak area. I made a qualified diagnosis and repaired the issue, replacing/retrofitting as discussed with the client ****** throughout the process of repairs. The only fact here is that the plumbing was not installed correctly originally. At no time was ****** left wondering what was happening with repairs as communication and honesty are of upmost importance of my business ethics. Working in Edmonton for 29 years without advertising, my business runs solely on recommendations of integrity, solid work ethics, honesty and has never had any complaints to date.

  
  This invoice is now outstanding and the full amount of $1030.58 is overdue.

  There has been no over charging on this invoice and there are no further discounts applicable as discount has already been given for anytime after 4pm as that is overtime.

   The discount has already been applied on the last 1.75 hours of work completed at the property which should applied at double time.

  A discount of $201.25 has already been applied to this invoice.

  At no time would any plumber have invoiced any “cheaper” price as stated by ******. My hourly rates are very low and competitive in the current market. ****** has limited knowledge and understanding of the issue that was present at her home and it is highly confusing to me for her to make so many assumptions in regards to a job she has no qualifications in. Plumbing jobs are not all exactly the same and therefore some differences in pricing when challenging repairs are found on site.
  In summary it is not viable for me to treat any customer in the manner ****** has described and basically defames my character and moral ethics.
  I will not accept any of this complaint as I have been more than open, effectively communicating with ****** and at no stage was it evident at anytime that she was in anyway unhappy with the service and repairs I provided to her property.
  I wish ****** all the best for the future and that she understands that unless you have a full comprehension of the engineering and scope of the task, that true clarity of the repairs cannot be understood.

  
  Many thanks

  
  ***** ****r
  
  
  We have since taken the bill to other plumbers and shown them the work and they have all been in agreement that this was not a $1000 job.  ***** ****r was vague and rushed through the situation to make is sound more complicated then it needed to be in order to make the job bigger and more expensive then it ever needed to be.  This is shameful business tactics.  
  We have submitted our payment as we don't want to be in arrears so we are asking for a $250 refund, which is more then fair taking into account the overcharge on both hours serviced and parts used.  
  ***** ***** should have honestly disclosed the price from the beginning as I never would have agreed on $1000 to fix a simple humidifier hose.
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****** ********

  Customer response

  06/05/2024

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I need to reiterate our initial two complaints as it seems ***** ****r is deflecting, exaggerating and miscommunicating on the true nature of our complaint to avoid directly answering to either of the complaints. 

  We require a breakdown of the parts provided.  The parts used in the repairs just don't add up in the generalized "Parts" and "Consumables" listed on the bill.  ***** ****r's refusal to itemize the parts is his way of overcharging on parts.  A professional would list the parts required for the job.  Any business we have used in the past has done so and the unwillingness to provide this is very telling of his business practices.

  The overcharging of two hours where ***** ****r disappeared to procure parts should not be charged.  ***** ****r had stated he didn't have the proper fitting to the humidifier and he has to go get one.  When I phoned him at 5:02 he stated that he didn't find it but he would make it work from the supplies he had in his trailer.  Anything else stated from ***** ****r is false.  He charged two hours of travelling around the city and then used parts he already had from his existing supplies.  The narrative that he should have charged me overtime doesn't make sense  as he never said his working hours and he showed up at my house at 2pm, so overtime would not apply if he didn't put in a full working day.  

  ***** ****r gave me no communication in terms of overtime hours, part prices, travel time. I am not responsible for his time mismanagement.  

  So once again: I would never had agreed to a 10 foot replacement humidifier replacement line knowing the bill was over $1000.  ***** ****r took full advantage based on my lack of knowledge by price gouging, exaggeration sale tactics and total deflection of pricing.  ***** ****r overcharged on both parts and hours. 

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****** ********

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