Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:04/17/2025

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  We took our 2011 ***** Odyssey to Kellys Auto on 09/26/24 due to rough running and check engine light. Kellys charged us $875.22 for a transmission service, throttle cleaning and air cleaning service, NONE of which we related to our problem and DID NOT solve the problem. ??It made the car worse and it developed a fluid leak as a result. ??We returned our car to Kellys and over the NEXT THREE MONTHS they kept our car, trying a variety of repairs, that never worked. The made SIX REPAIR attempts over THREE MONTHS and did not fix our problem. The car still ran bad and the trouble lights remained. ??Finally, in December, Kellys decided they would attempt to adjust our valve clearances to see if that would solve the problem. By now, we had figured out they had no idea what they were doing and were just guessing. But had not choice because they were the ones who ruined our car.??Finally, on 12/19/24 the owner told us they had finished the adjustments and if they did not work, he would not charge us. However, when we picked up the vehicle, the company CHARGED US $819.43 for these repairs in spite of their claim. Very deceptive. ??Now the car is WORSE than it was when Kellys first attempted to repair it. We feel they should pay to repair it at a qualified garage but will take a refund, of what was promised, so we can put this horrible experience behind us. We were lied to, and ripped off. ?

  Customer Answer

  Date: 05/12/2025

  It should be noted that for the weeks and weeks this shop had our vehicle, it sat, unattended while staff worked on trying to find things to charge us for.  ??The current diagnostic of the car is showing emission system issues. which is related to the O2 sensors in the exhaust system. 
  
  This is an easy diagnosis yet, Kellys either chose to ignore it, or did not have the competence to detect it.  ??Instead, the chose to initially charge us for Snowbird Specials,  overpriced service items like fuel system cleanings, and transmission fluid changes which had NOTHING to do with our issues.  It was only after two months, and numerous charges that this shop decided to attempt to adjust the valves, which immediately caused another check engine light and the vehicle had to be returned.  It was then we noticed we now had a fluid leak from whatever mis-repairs the shop had attempted and failed.  ??
  
  Then, after claiming they would not charge us for the valve adjustment until it worked, they charged us anyway.  Leaving us with a vehicle with over $1600 in repairs that is WORSE now thanks to Kellys.  We feel they either willfully, or incompetently, ignored the real issues with the vehicles emission system as this was never mentioned in ANY repairs as being a potential issue. 
  
  We feel very deceived and led-on through a series of unnecessary repairs in order to enhance the shops profit for what the vehicle really needed.  Or, it is a case of simple incompetence.  In any event, we dont believe we should be forced to pay for a companys guessing or lack of skill and are due a refund for these repairs. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 05/14/2025

  We would just like to add that this situation has brought a great deal of sadness, duress and confusion upon our household. 
  
  ??In 50 years of car ownership, this is the first time we encountered such a stressful situation.  Over the course of several months, this facility kept and attempted to repair our vehicles, on half a dozen or more occasions.  Each time we were told the vehicle was completed, we traveled an hour to pick it up, only to have to return the vehicle with another one hour round trip, and a chase ******** because the issue was not fixed.  Including one time, after being told the vehicle was complete, and the check engine light appeared while still in the parking lot.  All of this left us wondering why we were being told the vehicle was fixed, when it wasnt.  ??
  
  The information that we received on the vehicles status was also confusing, as the diagnosis seemed elusive and constantly changing, and the counter staff and technicians, didnt seem to provide cohesive information regarding what was being done or what the problem actually was, which seemed to change with each conversation.  We felt helpless.  ??
  
  We were referred to KARS by a business we trusted, as trust is key in these situations.  Hence, we also placed our trust in KARS.  As much as we appreciate any offers to, once again, attempt to repair our ******** it should be understandable that we would be apprehensive to accept returning to KARS, given the stressful string of bewildering experiences weve had, and the multiple time we were told our vehicle was repaired, when it was not. 
  
  Sadly, and regrettably, it is difficult for trust to survive such an experience.  ??We understand there will always be two sides to every story, but we are the ones who are out thousands of dollars here, absent any promised repairs, with nothing to show for it but a permanent and  painful lesson. 

  Business Response

  Date: 06/04/2025

  To whom it may concern,
  First of all, what the Riedhammers failed to mention is that they had already taken their vehicle to at least two other shops who were not able to repair their problem. They informed us that the last shop it was at had already performed a valve adjustment but no matter what anyone did the problem persisted.
  When we began work on the vehicle we started from scratch. We scanned the vehicle for codes and found misfire codes on cylinders 4 & 5. We also performed several inspections and tests including inspecting and re-gapping the spark plugs, compression test and swapping coils from different cylinders to verify that the misfires didnt follow the spark plugs or the coils. (The results are shown in the attached inspection link)
  

  After no problems were found from performing basic diagnosis, we recommended first trying a fuel induction service to eliminate excessive carbon build up on the valve surfaces as this is a common issue with these ***** engines and can cause intermittent misfires. We also cleaned the mass airflow sensor because on inspection notice it had some dirt deposits on the element. We also relearned the throttle position sensor and performed a PCM reset. This was the least invasive course of action and was discussed with the customer and approved by them. I did not and would not ever tell them that this would positively fix their problem, but we had to have a starting point and no one had performed these services yet. They also requested that we perform a transmission fluid exchange based on the condition of the fluid from our courtesy inspection.
  

  After the work was performed, we cleared the codes and took the vehicle on a long test drive and no symptoms returned. We returned the vehicle to the customer. They came back a few days later and told us that it ran great the first day but then the second day the check engine light came back on although they didnt have a noticeable running problem.
  

  It took us a few days to get back on it (as we are always very busy, usually two weeks out) and started testing it again when we had breaks between jobs. We knew this was an unusual issue and would take some time to figure out. The entire time we had the vehicle we experienced a momentary running issue three times, once on startup. The problem was very intermittent.Between my lead technician and myself, we had more than eight hours of additional tests as well as driving the vehicle long distances only to find no problem. It was too intermittent. This additional time spent is what I told Mrs.Riedhammer  I was not going to charge for,not the valve adjustment.
  

  After spending all this time and knowing the nature of these engines the last thing I could suggest was to try adjusting the valves **************** is one of the few manufacturers that still has adjustable valves. They are prone to tightening up and causing intermittent misfires. It is also something that is very time consuming and has to be done very precisely on a cold engine. Even though it had been performed before doesnt mean it was done correctly.
  

  I spoke with Mrs. ********** about adjusting the valves again. She asked if I thought this would fix the problem. I said I couldnt say for sure but that we had exhausted every other possible cause of a misfire other than an internal mechanical problem. She approved doing the valve adjustment.
  

  On completion of the job the technician drove the vehicle 15 miles with no problems. The next day I drove the vehicle again on a 30 mile trek with no problem, no check engine light returned.
  

  They picked up the vehicle and Im not sure what the timeframe was that they returned with the light back on and the same misfire codes. I explained again that the only possibility, after all the testing and work that we performed, is that there is an internal mechanical problem that would require extensive engine teardown in order to locate the problem and even then may not be obvious.
  

  They seemed satisfied to at least have a somewhat conclusive answer. So much so that they asked for a price to put an oil pan on their other van because of a stripped out drain plug. They returned a couple of weeks later for that work. (See previous complaint by Riedhammers) They did not mention anything at that time about a leak on the first van or that the intermittent issue had worsened. This is the first Im hearing of it 6 months later. If there is a leak related to the work we performed it is covered by our 2 year ******* mile warranty and we will gladly repair it for them under warranty.
  

  I do believe the problem may have worsened because the problem is not going to fix itself. However, none of the work we performed would cause the problem to worsen. We performed a thorough, step by step process/diagnosis to determine the cause of the issue. That is what they authorized and paid for. We determined that there is a mechanical problem that would require further teardown, possible rebuild or replacement of the engine.The Riedhammers declined going any further but they did approve all of the work that we did performed.
  

  I will not be refunding any of the money from work performed. I already offered to repair the actual cause of their oil leak from their last complaint at no charge but they refused.
  Thank you,
  *****
  ******* Auto Repair & Service

  
  You can copy and paste this link in a browser to view their inspection in detail. It is the only way I know to send it to you. If you are not able to view it, contact me and I will see if there is another way I can send it to you.

  *********************************************************************************

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/11/2025

   
  Complaint: 23218838
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  
  ??The actual reason our 2011 ***** Odyssey was referred to KARS... as documented by the attached photos... was due to TWO reasons.  The vehicle presented error codes related to misfires, and exhaust system oxygen sensors.  A problem the vehicle STILL has even after $1700 in ineffective repairs from KARS.  ??
  
  
  Rather than work directly on those issues, it is our opinion that KARS used inspection photos (a sales tool) and issues to sell us services not directly related to our primary problem, as we reportedincluding a transmission flush (causing a possible leak now) and a fuel system flush.   Even though the vehicle just had the latter of these services done.  ??The fuel induction service was the only repair that seemed to make sense but we were assured by the counter staff, the additional maintenance services would help. They did not solve any of our issues but we were charged just the same. 
  
  
  Never once, did anyone mention the obviously needed valve adjustments  or the glaring emission codes that seemed t be ignored. ??NONE of the initial services appear related to why we brought the vehicle in, as evidenced by the fact that they did not fix the issues that STILL exist to this day.  Meanwhile, we insisted they at least do a valve adjustment, which they finally agreed to do, after weeks of unsuccessful repair attempts.  ??
  
  
  We both remember the surprise of hearing the servicers offer when the they called us, after two months of trial and error and error and told us our 2011 ***** Odyssey valve job was done but.. we WOULD NOT be charged us UNTIL we had determined the repair worked.  ??This one fleeting island of integrity, in an ocean of ineptitude, fortified our confidence enough to drop off our 2005 ***** Odyssey for its oil pan replacement.  THAT is the reason our second vehicle came to KARS because we believed the dont pay until you are happy offer was a since one.  We remain, unconvinced, that we both misheard this offer.  ??
  
  
  We DO, however, remember the servicer claiming and complaining, several times, that he was doing a lot of work on this car for free but, as we remember it,  none of that work was related to the valve job we continued to request, or the emission system sensors, and honestly, thats just standard mechanic speak for being frustrated with an inability to track down an issue and not being able to charge for guessing.  ??
  
  
  Somewhere on this planet there is a mechanic that DOESNT claim they do a lot of work for free but we have yet to meet them.  ??
  
  
  We also cant seem to figure out when we were charged for the 2011 ***** valve adjustment  because, thanks to the offer of no charge temporarily on that completed repair, we dropped off the 2005 ***** at the same time we picked up the  2011 *****, and it did not appear we were charged for the valve job, at that point.  ??
  

  
  However, during the pickup of our 2005 *****, after the THIRD attempt to find oil leaks from whatever issues KARS caused during the oil pan replacement while Mrs. ********** was receiving the third version of what happened to our vehicle. she remembers the owner questioning her about NOT being charged for the 2011 van valve job.  This gist of the comment was did we ever charge you for that valve job?  She remembers it clearly because the owner seemed surprised that we WERE, in fact, charged.  ??
  
  
  In our opinion, this entire ordeal was a series of KARS misdiagnosing our vehicle and doing unnecessary repairs, while still charging us for the missteps, because for some reason, this shop has a difficult time recognizing and taking responsibility for its errors.  I mean, why else would they blame, the vehicle, the customer and whoever worked on it before?   The latter of which, is a laughable.  ??
  
  
  The evidence is this. we have TWO vehicles that we spent over $2000 on, and they are BOTH WORSE after being worked on by KARS.  No amount of explanation, blaming, or storytelling can change that.  Yet, the servicer believes we were treated fairly other than the fact they felt SO GUILTY about their mis-repairs they had to leave an apology note in our car.  ??
  
  
  We wont be returning to KARS for any reason, any time.  Not because we dont believe their offers to attempt re-do repairs are not real, but because our experience tells us they likely dont have the competence to get the job done properly.  We need to take both vehicles to a servicer we can trust to do the job, which will now cost us more money, thanks to this toxic experience.  ??
  
  
  We believe, competent mechanics and trustworthy business dont leave apology notes in cars.  They dont have to.  They do the job and dont take advantage of seniors.  We are still confused by this note, and why a company would spend more time apologizing than it would repairing our car, unless it was better at one, than the other.  ??
  
  
  Expensive trust ****** learned. 

  Business Response

  Date: 06/18/2025

  Ok, Im going to address one claim at a time here.
  

  The Check Engine light:
  Our digital inspection, with pictures of data we collected,clearly shows on our scan tool that there were no codes related to oxygen sensors at the time we scanned it. If there were O2 related codes from the previous shop that diagnosed it, they were likely a result of the intermittent misfires on cylinders 4 & 5 which are documented in our findings. When a vehicle exhibits misfires it changes the oxygen content of the exhaust which is reported to the *** (computer) and if the computer cannot make adequate adjustments to compensate it will flag a code. The misconception is that if there are O2 codes it means the sensor(s) is bad. The O2 sensor codes are not the cause of their problem but rather a result of the poor running condition.
  

  They used the term ineffective repairs:
  

  We performed no repairs on the vehicle nor did we claim to do any repairs. The van was brought to us only to perform diagnosis to determine what was causing there running issue. Once a cause is determined, if repairs are feasible and cost effective, it is up to the customer to decide if they will proceed with repairs. They chose not to.
  We performed a concise, systematic process to come to a positive determination of what is causing their cylinder misfires (as stated previously and can be backed up by our digital inspection). We performed no repairs on the van. That would indicate that something was taken apart or that we replaced broken or damaged parts (e.g., a leaking water pump). We performed services that possibly could be contributing to the running issue as an elimination process. (Again,as stated in my previous response)
  We were not commissioned to repair the vehicle. We were told that they had been to two other shops and no one could determine what was causing their running issue.
  Before a repair can be performed the cause has to be identified. As I stated previously, that can be a long, drawn out process when dealing with an intermittent problem such as theirs.
  No mention of a valve adjustment:
  Again, as stated previously, the one thing they mentioned that the last shop did do was perform a valve adjustment. Thats why it was the last thing we suggested trying before coming to the conclusion that there was an internal engine problem that would require extensive engine teardown or replacement. They never insisted that we do a valve adjustment.
  Now I see that they have submitted an invoice from the previous shop (Odyssey Issues Ignored.jpg) from one month before the vehicle came to us. It states in bold type the same conclusion we arrived at as having an internal engine problem.
  It says: ***** 8/23 SPOKE WITH ***** EXPLAINED THERE IS AN ISSUE IN THE ***** TRAIN OF VEHICLE. WOULD RECOMMEND TAKING TO DEALER TO HAVE FIXED OR ANY OTHER SHOP THAT CAN DO ENGINE REPAIR. COILS AND PLUGS ARE WORKING PROPERLY. MISFIRE IS DUE TO INTERNAL ENGINE ISSUE.
  This was never communicated to me, this is the first I am seeing this document or hearing  of their diagnosis.We were only told by Riedhammers that the previous shop had preformed a valve adjustment. I was under the impression that there had been no other diagnosis performed by them. I would have questioned why they were looking for a third diagnosis. Regardless, we would have followed the same step by step process that we always perform. We will not base our recommendation for repair based on another shops previous tests.
  

  A sales tool:
  

  We perform a courtesy inspection on every vehicle that comes into our shop. We have been doing this  for 10+ years and our customers love them. (See our nearly 4000 - 5 star reviews between our website and ******) The inspection shows them exactly what we see, creates transparency and allows them to make an informed decision based on the findings and OEM recommended services. It is our responsibility to inform our customers of needed *********************** & *********************** and the digital inspection is the absolute best way to inform them.
  It is then up to the customer to decide if and when they may want to perform any recommendations. The Riedhammers were never told that the service on their transmission was in any way related to their running issue. It was entirely their decision to perform that service at that time. And, as I stated previously, if there is a leak related to that service it is covered under warranty.
  

  Valve Job:
  

  They have referred to the job as a valve job several times. However, it was a valve adjustment not a valve job. That is an entirely different job at about 3 to 4 times the cost. (Valve adjustment has already been discussed enough) It is possible that a valve job could solve their running issue but without tear down of the engine there is no way to tell.
  

  The note:
  

  Yes, I did leave them a note. I explained my intentions of the note in the first BBB complaint. They want to call it an apology as if I am admitting some sort of blame on our part because I used the word sorry. While the word sorry can denote an apology, the context I used it in is clearly empathy. I told them I was sorry that the diagnosis turned into something more severe than we were hoping, but unfortunately these things cant be known until thorough testing is performed. (Empathy: The action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings,thoughts, and experience of another.)

  In short, it takes a lot of time and investigation to accurately determine the cause of a difficult, intermittent problem such as theirs. Thats why we had the vehicle the length of time that we did. (Most of which they were not charged for) We were very thorough and came to an accurate diagnosis. The same diagnosis that the previous shop arrived at, information they withheld from us.
  It takes a lot for me to lose my patience, but I am starting to get there. I have stated nothing but facts (not opinions) in a polite ********* I stated previously, I am sorry (empathetic) that they have experienced 2 vehicles (same make and model) with difficult problems. However, we neither caused nor worsened their issues. We didnt build it, buy it or break it. We simply performed a diagnosis procedure until a conclusion was drawn which the other shop they were at had already concluded also. The other van has a pre-existing oil leak, which I explained in the first complaint and offered to repair for them at no cost.

  It appears that nothing is going to satisfy them other than a refund. It seems to me that this is the real purpose of these claims.However, we followed our process concisely and included evidence of our findings through our digital inspection, we informed them of all procedures we were performing and they approved all work.
  

  Sadly, if they had come to me and discussed the matter in person I would have done everything I could to help them out with their situation. But frankly, Ive grown weary of the back and forth through this platform and the belligerent insults and name calling. At this point, my empathy has run out.
  

  I will not be issuing a refund and I will not be responding to any more complaints. I am washing my hands of this.
  Thank you and have a nice day,
  *****

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/19/2025

   
  Complaint: 23218838
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  
  We find it fascinating that this shop seems to know more about our vehicles current operating state now, than did when it was actually in for repairs.  ???
  In our experience, these after the fact opinions and conclusions, about what was wrong with our vehicles, will always be VERY different than the real world experience we are currently living with, after their repair attempts.   ???
  
  The FACT is both of our vehicles have the same issues, and worse after the time they spent at KARS and no amount of protesting too much can change those facts.  Yet, no one seems to want to address the "why"or "how" this could happen.   Again, this response just adds to the costly regret, and our consistent experience, that this shop is actually better at excuses than repairs.  Its a bitter reminder, as ****** has proved, that solicited online reviews mean nothing in the real world.  They certainly dont match our customer ********************** experience.  ???
  
  We are also patient people, which can be costly when dealing with those who know how to monetize it.  Sadly, we were more than willing to spend whatever amount it took to repair these vehicles, if, at any point, we felt the shop knew what it was doing.  We feel we spent money to service our vehicles, and received nothing of value in return, and thus believe we are due a refund of what was previously discussed, but conveniently forgotten. 
  
  ???It appears there is one thing we can all agree on everyone is sorry. this is one sorry shop and we are sorry we ever took our vehicles there for repair.  The only difference is, our version of sorry cost us thousands of dollars and the other sorry profited from it, and called it empathy.  ???
  
  We are unhappy with this response because we paid this shop money for repairs, and do not believe we received fair value for our money, or repairs as needed, and hence are requesting a refund of the valve adjustment. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:04/02/2025

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Our 05 ***** Odyssey, was dropped off for repair at ******* Auto (KARS) on 12/17. We requested an oil change and replacement oil pan as the current drain plug could not be replaced. We paid $613.29 which was $200 higher than a competitor's quote but were assured new parts. After picking the vehicle up on 12/19, we found numerous oil stains on our driveway, which NOW has to be power washed and repainted at a cost of $250 thanks to KARS. Vehicle was returned for a re-do service that day. We then spent Christmas without a vehicle thanks to KARS and when asked about the delay were told it was because they had to order another gasket for the oil pan as it went Defective... and this was the reason for the leaks. Vehicle picked up on 12/27.The next day, the vehicle began leaking again. We monitored it for two weeks, as requested by KARS, and on 1/7/25 returned the vehicle to them because it was now leaking WORSE than before the SECOND repair attempt. We were TOLD it would be looked at THAT DAY, and we could wait... but when we arrived, like always, they were short staffed again, and we had to leave the vehicle.We didnt hear back for FOUR DAYS. When we picked up the vehicle we were told that it was NOW leaking from SEVERAL NEW areas, and that there was nothing that could be done beyond a major overhaul. The vehicle had NEVER leaked like this. All of the previous repairs had been done at the ***** dealer so we knew this assessment was suspect. This is not the first time we have been ripped off by KARS, Our other ***** van is now worse for their repair attempts and will be the subject of an additional complaint. The owner left a feeble note attempting to explain their incompetence, and that the new leaks are not their fault, but did not offer any resolution for the damage they have caused to our vehicle, which now needs more repair, or the damage to our driveway due to their faulty repair.

  Business Response

  Date: 04/09/2025

  It is true. The **********'s did bring in their 2005 ***** Odyssey on 12/17/24 and requested that we change the oil pan. He said that they knew the drain plug was stripped and couldnt be repaired. I told them that this was a common issue with higher mileage vehicles (******* miles) with an aluminum oil pan and we gave them an estimate which they approved. If they were not happy with the price it was their option to go elsewhere. 
  I personally worked on the vehicle and what I observed when I raised the vehicle was quite a bit of oil on the entire bottom of the pan including the drain plug. When I removed the drain plug it broke loose easily and upon removal I confirmed that the threads were almost completely gone from the oil pan. I then removed and replaced the oil pan with a NEW part as per customer request. 
  The oil pan and engine block are 2 machined surfaces and does not require a gasket. It comes from the factory with silicone rubber sealant. ***** does not make a replacement gasket for the oil pan. After I finished the job I took the vehicle on a standard road test (about 2 miles), raised the vehicle back on the lift and reinspected it. I saw no leaks at that time so we delivered the vehicle to the customer.  
  When they brought the vehicle back in and said it was leaking I raised the vehicle again and found oil on the bottom of the pan exactly the way it was before the oil pan was replaced. I cleaned the pan thoroughly and ran the engine on the lift while I observed it. It took about 45 minutes but gradually oil started showing up at the front of the oil pan. I cleaned the area several times to verify and each time it appeared to be coming from a bolt hole at the front of the pan. I presumed that when I installed the pan I must have brushed the pan against the block and wiped off some of the sealant as the pan is very tricky to get into place. 
  I had to let the vehicle cool before I could take it back apart. When I did, I inspected both surfaces carefully and it didnt appear that sealant was wiped off but when youre dealing with sealant it is critical to get the sealant on evenly. I cleaned both surfaces thoroughly and had another technician assist me as I raised the pan in place, I was certain that the 2 surfaces did not touch on the way up. After completing the job I again test drove the vehicle, raised it back up and reinspected it. Again, I found no leak after the test drive. Confident that I had resolved the issue I released the vehicle to the customer. 
  When it returned again, I was very dismayed because the leak appeared exactly the same as before I replaced the pan. I cleaned the area again only to find that it appeared to be leaking from the same bolt hole area. At that point I figured that there must be some inconsistency in the pan, block or possibly a crack that I didnt see on initial examination. I pulled the pan back off, reinspected the sealant, and it was obvious that the sealant had done its job. I examined the block and pan closer to make sure there wasnt a crack in the surface of either component. No crack was found. At a loss for what was causing it to leak repeatedly from the same location, I researched and found a part supplier that offered an oil pan gasket for that application. I ordered that part thinking the gasket would make up room for any possible inconsistency in the block or pan. It took a couple of days for the gasket to arrive. That is why I had the vehicle longer than expected. 
  After installing the gasket, I drove the vehicle again, put it back on the lift and ran it for about an hour. Sure enough, it continued to leak from the same spot.  
  Exasperated, I cleaned the area again and added dye to the oil to see if I was somehow missing something. After running the vehicle again, for about 45 minutes, it finally exposed itself with the dye. The oil is leaking very slowly from behind the timing cover, likely from one of the timing seals or the oil pump housing gasket. I could see the dye through a very small opening between the timing cover and the engine. It requires a ** light to see the dye. 
  I showed the leak to Mrs. ********** with the ** light and explained where the leak was coming from. She began to cry. I felt very bad for her because it had been such a long process and, I understood because it was very taxing on me also. 
  I tried to explain to her that this type of leak can be very difficult to locate because it is hidden behind a cover and is a very slow leak that by the time it makes its way down the front of the engine it spreads out and runs along crevices in the engine and can appear like it is leaking elsewhere. 
  Regardless of any other leaks, the oil pan needed to be replaced. And the bottom line is that the oil pan drain plug hole was stripped. They requested the oil pan be replaced. I confirmed that the oil pan drain hole threads were stripped and replaced the oil pan at their request with an approved estimate. The oil pan IS NOT leaking. The additional leak is a preexisting condition that just happens to leak in the same area as the oil pan drain plug.  
  To suggest that we caused the additional leak is absurd. We would have had to take apart the entire front of the motor, remove the timing belt and pullies, damage a seal and then put it all back together. For what? To sell the job and then do it all over again? There would be no advantage to our doing such a thing. 
  I did in fact write Mrs. ********** a note. I felt empathy for her because she cried again and was still visibly upset when she left my shop. I was not making excuses. The oil pan had been installed properly (again, at their request). I had done nothing wrong. I was simply trying to help her to understand the difficulty we sometimes go through trying to diagnose certain vehicle issues. Its not always black and white.  
  I do apologize that it took me as long as it did to locate the actual leak. I know how frustrating that can be. Sometimes you get blinders on when youve been working in a general area, the first thing you do is look for something you did wrong. 
  We certainly are not perfect, and I will be the first to admit when we make a mistake. There were no mistakes with the work performed on their vehicle. It was just a pre-existing problem.  
  Sincerely, 
  ***** ******, owner 
  Kellys Auto Repair & Service, Inc 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 04/17/2025

   
  Complaint: 23150290
  
  I am rejecting this response because:  This is NOT a true representation of what happened and the response is a fabrication showing a lack of business morals. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** & ******* **********

  Customer Answer

  Date: 04/17/2025

  This vehicle ABSOLUTELY DID NOT leak oil before ******* worked on it and caused the issues.  This is how mechanics cover their mistakes. 

  Business Response

  Date: 05/12/2025

  30 years in business I have never had a customer call me a liar, especially when Mrs. ********** knows that what I stated is the absolute truth because she was there. I asked her to have her husband come down so I could show him precisely where the oil was coming from. He did not come back. I told my wife and my son that if he came back not only would I show him where it is leaking from but I would make the repair at no charge to them because they had been through such difficulties with both of their vehicles. It seems the only way this matter will be put to rest is for Mr. ********** to bring the vehicle back here, stay and watch us disassemble the front timing area to show where the leak is and I will still even repair the leak at no cost to them. The other option is to take the vehicle to another shop, let them show him that it is leaking from the timing area and they can charge him the several hundred dollars it will cost to repair.

  I will not, however, be reimbursing them for the oil pan repair because it is not leaking from there.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 05/12/2025

   
  Complaint: 23150290
  
  I am rejecting this response because:  If what this person is saying is true, then WHY would any competent mechanic go ahead and charge a customer for a ********************** that would not solve their problem, KNOWING it was something else?  If the shop is so confident in it's diagnosis, where was THIS over-confidence when we was being charged for repairs that would NOT solve our issues?  WHY, WHY would we EVER trust ******* to work on ANY vehicle of ours, ever, given such a tainted history of repairs, with two vehicles?  Of course they want to do the corrective repairs themselves, behind closed doors, and make it so INCONVENIENT that the offer is clearly disingenuous and would cause us further painful stress and anxiety, when this situation has already caused us so much harm.   Here is ANOTHER case where this shop charged us for a repair, but now has admitted our problem was "something else." that would have cost more money.  It seems very suspicious to us that this shop want to get our vehicle back, and of course how could be trust any repairs after what we have been though.   We be believe we are due some sort of a refund for these inadequate repairs 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** & ******* **********

  Customer Answer

  Date: 05/12/2025

  I am rejecting this response because:  If what this person is saying is
  true, then WHY would any competent mechanic go ahead and charge a
  customer for a ********************** that would not solve their problem, KNOWING it was
  something else?  If the shop is so confident in it's diagnosis, where
  was THIS over-confidence when we was being charged for repairs that
  would NOT solve our issues?  WHY, WHY would we EVER trust ******* to
  work on ANY vehicle of ours, ever, given such a tainted history of
  repairs, with two vehicles?  Of course they want to do the corrective
  repairs themselves, behind closed doors, and make it so INCONVENIENT
  that the offer is clearly disingenuous and would cause us further
  painful stress and anxiety, when this situation has already caused us so
  much harm.   Here is ANOTHER case where this shop charged us for a
  repair, but now has admitted our problem was "something else." that
  would have cost more money.  It seems very suspicious to us that this
  shop want to get our vehicle back, and of course how could be trust any
  repairs after what we have been though.   We be believe we are due some
  sort of a refund for these inadequate repairs
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** & ******* **********