Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  11/29/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We had a home built. They keep pushing off month after month. We have cracks in our foundation. They fixed a couple of them but it was not enough. A representative from your company told us that it is warped. The seals on the windows were not working. They screwed down the front door so tight, that water and worms come up under the door. They were to do the grating and haven't. I have water coming into the house. We spent money on a engineer to evaluate the property. He said it needing more grating. They told me they were going to fix it all.

  Business response

  11/29/2022

  Repairs were not being put off.  There is delays due to shortages in labor and materials.  These labor/material shortage issues are affecting the whole homebuilding industry in the Country, not just Payne Family Homes.  We have repaired the cracks reported in the foundation.  If there are more leaking cracks, please report them through the normal warranty process to be repaired under our waterproofing warranty.  The foundation has a slight bowing which can happen when poured and is not in itself a cause for concern.  We provide a 10 year structural warranty and at this time, this bowing is merely cosmetic and not a cause for structural concern.  You say the seals on your windows "were" not working, so I assume that has been addressed now.  If you are having issues with your door frame that have not been addressed please report them to be addressed.  We are re-grading the dirt that settled in front of the home away from the home, but at this time we are not certain that grading is required on the left side of your home as there is some fall to the swale.  You've reported your sump pump is running all the time, but we've been out there and that is not true.  We've told you it is homeowner responsibility to extend the downspouts and sump pump hose outside of the over-dig area of your foundation if you want to reduce the amount of water draining next to your home and this will cause the sump pump to run less, but you have refused to do this.  We said after you handle your homeowner responsibility to have water ejected further away from your foundation and if we can confirm your sump pump really is running more than we consider normal/acceptable then we would consider doing a little re-grading on the left side of your home, but the ball is in your court. 

  Customer response

  12/01/2022

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: The water issue on the left front side of the house has been a problem since the house was built! We first delt with **** ,then he moved on and we got a guy named ***** ,then ****.and now a guy named ****. The basement has already flooded with approximately 2 inches of water because the sump pump could not keep up with water coming back through the sump pump drain! the sump pump was working so hard that it became dislodged from the wall ,which my son-in-law reatatched to the wall. We then contacted our own structural engineer because payne had not yet addressed the constant running of the sump pump. Payne did send a plumber out to look at the sump pump after the flooding had been taken care of but seemed to think that there was nothing wrong . (the sump pump was running while he was there and did so for several days after!)Our house was the only house that flooded during this period! Our engineer that we hired suggested that the ground needs to be graded immediately! My daughter talked to a guy named **** from Payne, and he  agreed on grading the front left side and front of the house,  and also a part of the back yard that water pools and sits.(and as far as i know there is no shortage of dirt nor sod nor companies that perform these types of work) but were put off again. Then after ,phone call after phone call, we were told that now they were not going  to grade the yard as **** told us ,but  some guy named ****, said they would  throw some dirt in the front corner of the house, not addressing the sloping from the center of the front yard ,back toward the house. Every house in that subdivision slopes from the house out toward the street, ours does NOT! If we can get Payne to do the proper grading, then we can address down spouts and drain lines ourselves. Our house sits lower than both of our neighbors houses on either side of us, which makes it more susceptible to water flowing towards our house. When we actually have the water flowing from the house to the street or side yard to the backyard, then we can go forward with the downspouts and sump pump lines which we will install ourselves. The ball has been in your court for the last 2 years !!!

    We were dealing with a **** from Payne at first, during the 2 month warranty repaires the front door stuck real bad . **** sent a guy out to adjust the front door. The employee tightened the threshold so tight that it created a swale in the center of the door that lets rain water and worms and insects to go underneath the bottom of the door. When it rains hard ,water is coming in and in turn is rotting out floor! **** was notified about this problem and shortly after he left the company, ***** then took over and was addressed of this problem more than several times!!! He has since moved on. This is another issue where there is no shortage of doors and door installers for the last 2 years to fix this problem!!!  This problem will not get any better!!! The ball has been in your court on this one for 2 years now!!!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We did finally get a call november 29 2022 that the window people are coming out on december 8th to address the seals that were taken out 15 months ago. We also just had the drywall work and cieling painted right before thanksgiving 2022, but the cieling  has already begun to crack again!!! This also needs to be addressed again!

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****** *******

  Business response

  12/08/2022

  I've seen no clear evidence that points to a water issue caused by the grading on the "left front side of the house".  You have our email addresses, please send the evidence you have.  When you say the basement flooded with 2 inches of water because the sump pump couldn't keep up; I assume this happened when we had the 100 year rain event.  This extraordinary heavy rain caused many homes in the St Louis area to experience issues with water in the basement.  Your issue was likely exasperated by the fact that your sump pump and downspouts are not ejecting outside of the over-dig area as you've been told is homeowner responsibility to do.  If your sump pump wasn't recirculating water, possibly it could have kept up even during that 100 year rain event.  We don't know.  

  We have been told that the sump pump runs constantly but we've been out there when the sump pump didn't run once so that is an exaggeration.  So, maybe it's just when it rains and when the sump pump continues to recirculate water since you refuse to eject the water outside of your over-dig area as recommended that the sump pump continues to run for an extended period.  You saying your house is the only house that flooded during this period is false and I'd be interested to know what evidence you have to back this extreme statement up?

  You're saying your engineer "suggested that the ground needs to be graded immediately".  Please send this engineer report that states the evidence they obtained to come to that conclusion.  We've had an engineer look at your issue and he is the one who suggested that your sump pump and downspouts first need to eject outside of the over-dig before we can determine if additional grading is needed.  Please also send photos of the foundation you say is "bowed".  Concrete is not flexible, so any bowing likely occurred at install and is not evidence of a grading issue.  

  The engineer's plot plan for your home and the home's on both sides called for your foundation to sit lower than those two, so this is normal and considered acceptable.  Please provide the evidence you have of the water flowing towards your home instead of away from it.  I've not seen this.

  For any other issues with your home, you should continue to address those to the warranty team you are working with.  We will address all issues covered by our warranty.  I just am not seeing evidence of a need to regrade most of your yard as you're requesting.

  Customer response

  12/19/2022

  
  i would like to reopen complaint number ********. we were out of town with a sickness and a death in the family. we do have an independent structural engineering company report and i took some pictures and would like to respond to payne family homes .There is zero grade at the left side corner of the house meaning the ground is level 4 and a half feet away from the foundation .There is minus 6 inches plus in the front left corner from the street side back towards the house, meaning the water drainage runs from the steert side back towards the house. I am sending pictures and engineering report to payne family homes. We do have a video recording of **** who works for payne family homes saying that they would grade our property and it would be taken care of . I also am sending a picture of the front door where i can slide my truck key under the center of the bottom of the door where rain water and earthworms come in. when our basement flooded, it is the truth that the houses on all 4 sides of us did not flood but ours did!!! we have had a drainage pipe from the sump pump on the surface of the ground since the flooding of our basement happened. We can not bury these pipes until proper grading is done! we also know the bow in the foundation was not caused by a grading issue but what concerns me is the foundation continuing to show more cracks and as water keeps seeping near foundation because of the grading not being addressed, that the winter combined with the water will cause further damage to the foundation. I am in town until new years eve and am available to meet with with payne at my property my phone number is ************* Also our neighbor on the left side of us also complained that he has a hard time with cutting grass because of standing water in between our houses.

  Business response

  01/05/2023

  Foundation cracks are due to concrete drying out over time, not grading. Those types of cracks are normal and happen in probably every home. Even your own engineer report agrees with us that these cracks are common and not structurally significant.

  Your downspouts and sump pump currently eject into the over-dig area even though we've told you repeatedly they need to eject further out to reduce ground settling next to the foundation, and reduce the sump pump running.  We told you we would build up the front left corner so the grade slopes away from the home, but you refused to let us begin this work because you are requesting more work be done than we think is needed.  At the same time we add dirt to front left corner of home we can add some dirt to the left side near the front left corner to improve that grade as well.  Although, at least some of your ground settling is due to lack of proper homeowner maintenance by not ejecting the downspouts out far enough away from the home.  

  As I've already said, we will handle the door frame issues.  If those are not fully addressed, report them through the normal process and we will address them again.  You repeatedly bringing up issues we've agreed to address does not help support your false claims. 

  Customer response

  01/09/2023

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WE HIRED SHOWS THAT THERE IS A GRADING ISSUE! WE SENT YOU PICTURES IN DETAIL OF OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER REPORT OF THE GROUND ALONG THE SIDE OF OUR HOUSE AND ON THE LEFT FRONT CORNER OF OUR HOUSE  ON HOW IT SHOULD BE PROPERLY GRADED. WHEN WE BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE OF STANDING WATER AROUND OUR HOUSE (PICTURE) IN THE FIRST 6 MONTHS THAT WE TOOK POSSESION  TO **** YOUR WORKER, HE TOLD US TO WAIT FOR THE 11 MONTH WARRANTY REPORT  THAT THE GROUND WOULD SETTLE AND THEY WOULD ADDRESS THIS ISSUE AT THAT TIME. WE WERE ALSO TOLD NOT TO BURY DRAIN LINES OR PUT UP ANY KIND OF FENCING ,ECT.  UNTIL THAT TIME IN CASE THEY NEEDED TO GRADE THE YARD THAT IT COULD TEAR UP ANY THING THAT WAS BURIED OR INSTALLED. WE ALSO PUT DRAIN PIPES FROM THE LEFT SIDE CORNER OF THE HOUSE THAT DRAINS THE DOWN SPOUT AND SUMP PUMP AWAY FROM THE FOUNDATION 5 TO 6 FEET THAT ARE ABOVE THE GROUND (PICTURE),AND WHEN THE PROPER GRADING IS DONE WE WILL ADD ON TO THESE PIPES AND BURY THEM. YOU SAY YOU WAS GOING TO COME OUT AND RAISE THE DIRT LEVEL ALONG SIDE AND IN FRONT  OF OUR HOUSE TO IMPROVE THE "GRADE" . WELL YES WE WANT THAT WORK DONE ! BUT WANT IT DONE PROPERLY ACCORDING TO WHAT OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER SUGGESTS! TOU CLAIM YOUR ENGINEER SAID THE GRADE IS FINE ,BUT WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY PROOF FROM YOUR ENGINEER THAT THIS IS TRUE.YOUR COMPANY HAS BEEN AWARE THAT THERE IS A ISSUE FOR NEARLY 14 MONTHS AND IN THIS CURRENT  BBB RESPONSE THAT I AM REPLYING TO, YOU AGREE THAT THERE IS A GRADING ISSUE OTHER WISE YOU WOULD NOT HAVE OFFERED TO ADD DIRT AROUND THE FOUNDATION TO "HELP THE GRADE! SO ALL WE ARE REQUESTING IS THAT THE JOB IS DONE PROPERLY ACCORDING TO OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER REPORT.
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****** *******

  Business response

  01/12/2023

  It seems you accidently forwarded the email from your engineer when you sent us the report where he says, "If there is anything I omitted that you feel needs to be added, I can amend the report if needed." That doesn't sound like an independent engineer, if he's writing the report based on your thoughts/beliefs.

  As I've already said, your downspouts and sump pump currently eject into the over-dig area even though we've told you repeatedly they need to eject further out to reduce ground settling next to the foundation, and reduce the sump pump running.  We told you we would build up the front left corner so the grade slopes away from the home, but you refused to let us begin this work because you are requesting more work be done than we think is needed.  At the same time we add dirt to the front left corner of home, we can add some dirt to the left side near the front left corner to improve that grade as well.  Although, at least some of your ground settling is due to lack of proper homeowner maintenance by not ejecting the downspouts and sump pump out far enough away from the home.  

  Since you refused to let us make the grading repairs we agreed to late last year, these repairs will now have to wait until the Spring as this will likely require some sod repair.  

   

  Customer response

  01/12/2023

  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: WE HIRED THIS ENGINEER TO SHOW YOU THE PROOF THAT OUR PROPERTY IS NOT GRADED PROPERLY! I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU SAY HE IS WRITNG UP THE REPORT BASED ON MY THOUGHTS AND BELIEFS. THERE IS NO TRUTH TO THAT STAEMENT WHAT SO EVER!  HE IS AN  INDEPENDENDT ENGINEER THAT WE HIRED . WE HAD NO SAY SO TO ANYTHING ON THAT REPORT! YOU SAID BECASE OF PORE HOME MAINTENANCE ON OUR PART THAT WE ARE AT FAULT. BUT AGAIN IT WAS  YOUR EMPLOYEE (****) THAT TOLD US NOT TO BURY ANY PIPING OR PUT IN ANY OTHER FENCING OR PERMAMENT STRUCTURES UP INCASE YOUR COMPANY HAD TO DO REGRADING, WICH OUR ENGINEER REPORT CLEARLY SHOWS YOU WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO BE GRADED PROPERLY! THANK GOD WE DID PUT DRAIN PIPES ABOVE GROUD FROM THE SUMP PUMP AND DOWN SPOUT AND CHANNELED THE WATER 5 TO 6 FEET AWAY FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE HOUSE ,OR THINGS MIGHT BE WORSE! WE STILL HAVE NOT HEARD FROM YOUR ENGINEER THAT OUR PROPERTY DOES NOT NEED REGRADING ,EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY THAT YOU THINK THAT THE WORK WE ARE REQUESTING IS MORE THAN YOU "THINK" IS REQUIRED. THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN OPINION ON YOUR PART WITH NO PROOF FROM YOUR COMPANY OR FROM YOUR ENGINEER TO BACK THAT UP! WE HAVE SENT YOU THE PROOF FROM OUR ENGINEER! WE HAVE NOT REFUSED YOU TO COME OUT AND DO THE WORK REQUIRED, (THAT IS A VERY FALSE STATEMENT!) YOU HAVE BEEN PUTTING US OFF FOR NEARLY 14 MONTHS NOW! WHEN  ****  MET WITH MY DAUGHTER LAST SUMMER ON GETTING THE WARRENTY WORK TAKEN CARE OF, **** AGREED THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO THE GRADING AND GET IT DONE BEFORE WINTER GOT HERE. (MY DAUGHTER HAS A RECORDING OF THIS CONVERSATION!)  THE WORK STILL HAS NOT BEEN STARTED EVEN AFTER WEEKLY PHONE CALLS TO PAYNE,TO KELSEY  AT THE OFFICE AND TO ***** ON HIS PERSONAL PHONE (WICH IT TOOK WEEKS TO GET A RETURN CALL FROM HIM AND WITH NO ACION!)I( ****** *******) HAVE YET TO TALK ON THE PHONE TO ****! MY DAUGHTER, ALSO AFTER SHE HAD TALKED TO ****, ORDERED DIG RITE AND HAD THEM COME OUT TO CHECK FOR BURIED UTILITIES, WICH THEY DID! AFTER WEEKS OF PHONE CALLS,AFTER PHONE CALLS, WE GOT TIRED OF WAITING, WINTER WAS UPON US ,SO THAT IS WHEN WE FILED OUR COMPLAINT WITH THE B.B.B.! MAKING FALSE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT ME, AFTER I DID WHAT YOUR COMPANY (****) TOLD ME TO DO (BY NOT BURYING THE PIPES)! AND MAKING FALSE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT THE ENGINEERING COMPANY AND THAT I WAS INFLUENCING THEM WITH MY THOUGHTS AND BELIEFS IS VERY ABSURD AND UNPROFESSIONAL! AGAIN ,I AM ASKING THAT YOU DO WHAT YOUR COMPANY (****) SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO AND DO WHAT OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING COMPANY SUGGEST NEEDS TO BE DONE PROPERLY AND JUST GET IT DONE PLEASE!!!  

  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****** *******

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