ComplaintsforEtsy, Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  08/18/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On February ***, 2021 I was banned from the Etsy seller forum. The seller forum is a service that Etsy offers its sellers. I am a seller. (This has to do with consumer only/not disability). I am a consumer of Etsy's. I pay fees to use its services. I was bullied off the forum, then continued to be bullied by Etsy in arbitration, in which I withdrew the arbitration because I realized it was a biased venue and would never end up in my favor. THERE IS NO VIABLE RECOURSE FOR ETSY SELLERS TO ADDRESS THEIR GRIEVANCE WITH ETSY. Seems this should be a consumer/business law violation. It is deceptive to have arbitration in its terms, when they know full well the outcome will always be in Etsy's favor. It is deceptive to offer links and notices/advertisements on the seller dashboard to go to the forum and the links take you nowhere. Etsy is biased and favors some sellers. To this day Etsy cannot tell me what policies I violated. It is the principle here. Anything Etsy replies with is a lie.

  Business response

  09/07/2021

  ********* * * **** ***               *** ****** ******** ******                     ** **** **** ****** * **** *****                     *** ***** ** *****
  *** ******       ************************** ***               **** *********
  
  Dear Mediator:
  
  This letter sets forth Etsy’s position regarding the complaint dated August ***, 2021 against Etsy, Inc. (“Etsy”). Etsy’s service, ********, is a marketplace where people around the world connect to buy and sell unique goods. To use the site, each individual must agree to Etsy’s Terms of Use and other site policies. The Customer is an Etsy member and agreed with Etsy’s Terms of Use. 
  
  Etsy’s Terms of Use state, “We may terminate or suspend your account (and any related accounts) and your access to the Services at any time, for any reason, and without advance notice. If we do so, it’s important to understand that you don’t have a contractual or legal right to continue to use our Services, for example, to sell or buy on our websites or mobile apps. Etsy may refuse service to anyone, at any time, for any reason.” 

  
  The customer was permanently suspended from the Forums in February due to some messages they sent in violation of our Community Policy. 

  
  Forums is a public space where sellers can gather with other sellers to discuss their Etsy businesses. When using the forums, the member agrees to follow policy. 

  
  Their violations of policy were repeatedly explained to the customer and notified at each time via direct message and email. The customer replied to each of them. The violations in question related to accusatory, insulting and threatening comments (threatening legal action + negative shop/account consequences) to other members and to Etsy Admin.

  
  In the event the Customer has any questions about this matter, they may email us directly via our contact page. 
  
  Etsy considers the matter closed at this time.  If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at **************.  

  Customer response

  09/08/2021

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# ********, and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

   

  Etsy states below I was banned from the forums due to some messages I sent? I was never informed by Etsy prior to or after the ban that the reason is because of messages I sent prior to the ban. To whom, and what was the violation prior to the ban of February ***, 2021. This is new to me. I have never been told this before by Etsy. Etsy states I replied to each message. No I did not. Etsy is not telling the truth.

  Etsy claims below that the violations were explained to myself each time and I was notified each time. After the 1 year ban I repeatedly wrote Etsy and asked what policies did I violate. What did I say that I should not have said. Etsy has refused thus far to this date to explain.  The violations Etsy mentions below are false. Quite, the contrary. I was bullied off the forum. There is much evidence as to the group of forum bullies. 

   I had an attorney read the thread from which I was banned and he sees nothing out of the ordinary about my posts. I also had an attorney tell me that posting to the bullies in the forum that I would have an attorney send cease and desist letters and maybe even a lawsuit is not a "threat" Etsy told me I could not communicate with the bullies. Etsy staff would do nothing about my many complaints. So what other choice did I have to address them in the forum to cease and desist? 

  Etsy provides no evidence and if they did some of it would be false. There comments below are false. 

  Per section 230 of the communications decency act Etsy may not have protection under it for numerous reasons such as in bad faith or failure to warn the user their forum account would be permanently closed. Etsy did not warn me contrary to what they say here. ***** *** ***** **** a business does not have protection under section 230 if they fail to warn the user or if they acted in bad faith. Both have occurred here. 

  Furthermore, Etsy has not closed my shop down for any reason, out of spite because they know they failed to warn me. Furthermore, Etsy has a new program called star seller that only a few sellers attain. I have. This means I provide excellent customer service and run a stellar shop, all contrary to Etsy's accusations. I wrote Etsy last week if I would lose star seller status due to the "alleged" forum violation and they wrote back and said as long as I meet star seller criteria I am allowed to participate. They say they can revoke your star seller for policy violations. They know I violated no policy and was the victim of bullying. 

   I attempted arbitration, but withdrew when I realized it was skewed in the business favor (research told me this and how it was proceeding). There is NO viable option for an Etsy seller to address its grievance with Etsy. That should be a consumer violation.

  Etsy says I can email them? I have numerous times even in the past couple months asking "what policy violation did I violate and what did I say I should not and Etsy refuses to answer. The comments here are illusory and do not refer to anything specific. Furthermore, they ban some users for some things and not other users for the same things. 

  Secondly, it seems that two of my bullies have been banned since my ban and if that is not all telling. But, they leave my main bully whom has many violation whom has many policy violations because favors her and is bias. They do not treat all equal. Etsy says, for example. I called someone a bully so I was banned (after the ban mind you). I told them recently, I in fact said, "why don't you find someone else to bully" to my main bully not banned. She replied with "You are a bully" Yet she was not banned. It is crazy quite frankly.

  Etsy will not close my shop because they know they did not give me a proper warning under section 230 nor did they respond to my questions on what did I say that I should not.

  Furthemore, I have since opened a second shop *****************. I let Etsy know i was going to post in the forum and was very transparent. When I did they deleted the helpful message to a shop and banned me again. They have since unbanned to read only mode. I have asked Etsy to unban my main shop ************** to read only mode even though I do not agree with the ban and they refuse to respond. So when they say they will respond to any questions that is false.

  I do not consider the matter closed. Etsy is not telling the truth here.

   

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** **********
  
  
  
  
   
  

  Business response

  10/09/2021

  **** ** *** ******** ******* **** ***               *** ****** ******** ******                     ** **** **** ****** * **** *****                     *** ***** ** ***** *** ******        ************************** ***               **** *********
  Dear Mediator:
  

  This letter sets further forth Etsy’s position regarding the rejection dated 9/***/2021 against Etsy, Inc. (“Etsy”). Etsy’s service, ********, is a marketplace where people around the world, connect to buy and sell unique goods. To use the site, each individual must agree to Etsy’s Terms of Use and other site policies. The Customer is an Etsy member and agreed with Etsy’s Terms of Use.

  
  In the rejection, the Customer states that Etsy’s explanation for the reasons the Customer was banned from the Forums were not accurate.

  
  While the Customer may disagree, Etsy reserves the sole right to determine who may use our site, including the Forums, a message board where Etsy members can communicate. 
  While Etsy may not respond to requests to be unbanned from the Forums, we did review the request and denied it. 

  
  Etsy considers this matter closed. If we can help with anything else, please get in touch via our contact page: *********************************
  
  Sincerely,
  Etsy, Inc.
  
  

  Customer response

  10/12/2021

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# ********, and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

   

  Etsy states in its response they may ban anyone, at any time, for any reason from their forum. We have been rounds on this, and they are full aware this is not true. Even in their own pleadings they site cases to section 230 - communications decency act.
  
  In order for an online entity such as Etsy to be able to claim section 230 immunity they have to follow the rules, just like other online platform forums. They have to give a warning, that you are at risk of being removed from the platform permanently if you do not correct your alleged violation/errors. I was never given such a warning. The permanent ban came as a complete shock to me. To this day Etsy states, "as we "believe" you have violated a policy. And still never will tell me what policy/rules.

  
  The first time I was ever alerted to this phrase was the problem, "or I will get my attorney involved" occurred AFTER the ban. There were no such warnings sent to my account. Etsy says I was banned for messages I sent. I have never been made aware of these alleged messages. I have NEVER sent a derogatory message to another seller via the forum messaging, let alone my seller account (which is not the subject matter here).
  
  Etsy has thrown out many allegations as to why hoping one would stick. I have proven to them why each fails and could possibly not be true. Etsy's plethora of reasons is simply pretext for ??  -- The forum bullies did not like you and the moderators are biased and helped give them what they wanted, you to be removed from the forum. Because, when the bullies many, many posts violating policies were/are ignored, still to this day, then what else could it be? And/or the moderators did not want to properly do their job, so they decided they did not want to address my continued reaching out for help with the bullying in the forum and felt it would be easier to get rid of me, the one being bullied. 
  
  I simply want this case and what happened to me on public record. It is consumer in nature as I am a customer of Etsy's, and I pay fees to use their site/s. 
  
  Now, since I have proven to them that "or my attorney will get involved" is not the definition of a threat under ** law, their new reason is, "simply because we can." But, under section 230 rules,  they clearly cannot, they need to give a warning, in which never occurred, contrary to Etsy's allegations. Clearly, they made a huge mistake here, and they clearly have no interest in correcting it.

   

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** **********   
  

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩