ComplaintsforFour Seasons Sunrooms

• Initial Complaint

  06/14/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Delivery Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We signed a contract with ASUNROOM4YOU (the Company) on 02/02/2023 and provided a down payment check of $24,668, which cleared on 02/06/2023. We took out a loan for the remainder of the contract of $61,672, for $37,004 with ************** the Company has a pay to order for each of the (3) check draws.
  The estimated timeline of the sunroom contract provided 11 weeks for all aspects to completion. We twice called ****************** for missed scheduling; he stated the weather was an issue that affected the estimated timeline. We are now beyond 19+ weeks from the date of signing the contract with no real answers.
  On 05/17/23 we received an email with a letter attached that stated they were 3-weeks behind schedule because of weather. On 06/06/23 we responded requesting a more definitive schedule for ***********. On 06/06/23 the Company response was: Due to the weather delay it has set us back on our schedule for all installation dates,that being said we are installing customer project that have been months ahead of yours. We appreciate your patience.  On 06/08/23 we sent another email requesting a firmer timeline for ***********. No response from them as of our last email.
  We contacted 4 Seasons Sunroom Consumer affairs; they reached out to the Company and received the same weather delay letter. The representative, *********************,has not received further information from the Company regarding production of said product. ********************* referred me to 4 Seasons Sunrooms Building Products (FSBP) a sister company with regions in ******* and ****** **. I spoke with the ******* ** region, and they did not have product ordered for ASUNROOM4YOU, nor had the ****** region which would be the prime supplier for ***********, Dealers. Further, ****** indicated to *******, ASUNROOM4YOU, had not ordered product for (6) months. Based on the above we find ASUNROOM4YOU has been evasive and noncommunicative in all aspects of this project.   

  Business response

  06/15/2023

  Attached are copies of the contracts, one is dated **** which is the original and the back which clearly shows the estimated timeline the second contract was request by the homeowner for his bank loan as per the original contract it's clearly explained to the homeowner of the current supply chain backlog in addition we had a local institution backlog of jobs sold in 2022 all this was explain in time of order, ************* has my personal cell number and we have talked several times about the schedule shortly after he made the order it was explained everytime we talked. 

  We have no control over the weather, our installer use extension cords and power tools and cannot be used it wet weather to electric shock and safety. 

  The customer hasn't contacted us Till this notice we got from BBB we weren't aware of the customers unsatisfactory of the schedule.

  The last time we talked to ************* by phone sometime in May he was aware of the schedule again. 

  Currently we have at least 4 weeks of installation of jobs that were sold before his and we are working diligently to catch up. 

   

  Due to the rain this Jan-May made a server backlog of installations that we are working through and now that it's full summer and dry the crew can only work half days due to the heat and safety.

  All we ask is ************* to have patience and will get to his job in order as soon as we can. (5-6 weeks)

  We have been building sunrooms since **** and haven't had a manufacturing and business disruption that COVID has caused. 

  I don't understand why the customer hasn't contacted us directly for schedule updates we have notified them that we would give them a week notice for installation if they have any questions they need to call us directly.

  Thank you, 

  Sincerely *********************;

  Customer response

  06/16/2023

  Complaint: 20185486
  
  I am rejecting this response because: Point 1:  The supply chain issue was not brought to the attention of the Cahills, if so, we may not have gone forward as we had other options.
  
  Point 2: Yes, I made two calls to ******************, both of which he stated, that the contract timeline was only an estimate and there were weather delays. *o other explanation.
  
  Point 3: Contact was in fact made via email directed to ATT*: ****************** on two occasions (06/06/23 and 06/08/23) specifically requesting a definite scheduling timeline. On both occasions I emailed myself as well requested, read/delivery option, nor which there has been been a response. Further, on both emails I also requested that response be via email or letter. *o response to last email of 06/08/23.
  
  Point 4: Red flags on this project became apparent after ASU*ROOM4YOU's email of 06/06/23 which stated, "we are months behind other customer projects" with it's negative implications, and their nonresponse to my request for a definite schedule. I requested in my emails that I require a response in writing, phone calls have no legal bearing in contract matters. My efforts in the communication processes are verifiable.
  
  Point 5: At this point I will consider patience with a written commitment to schedule and complete this project *LT the 1st week of August. This provides 6-7 weeks for completion of the project.
  
  Point 6: Additionally, as I reviewed the contract schematic, the * or right side did not indicate dimensions. All dimensions are gross footage which do not add up for the total patio space which is: 20 ft x 27 ft x 10 ft 9 in, they exclude the columns, which may also alter the design from the material order perspective. There should be more precise specified measurement to ensure proper fit on installation. Request due diligence should be made in this respect in order to proceed.
  
  Regards,
  
  ***********************

  Business response

  06/20/2023

  I apologize for not clearly explaining the concerns of the cahills on the schedule of their sunroom enclosure and the reasons.

  First it serves Noone to drop out the completion of any project in any business. Not the customers not the technicians not the company.

  The company has no intention drag out the schedule (quite opposite)

  Sunroom installation is an exterior home improvement. The tools used to install the include cord electric drills,saws,ladders,and various hand tools.These tools are not safe to use in wet weather and thunderstorms due to electrical shock,slippage on ladders and handling materials and tools. Depending on the jobsite and the amount of rainfall it can take up to 1 to 3 days after a storm to be able to construct the project. The materials need to be stored on site during construction. 

  It is not wise or safe to store material in backyard or back patio I'm stormy weather the materials can be damaged, at the least they will get debri and very solled if materials get damaged we would have to reorder replacement parts which could take 12 weeks, additional freight cost, and homeowners insurance claim to cover cost.

  Also there is a weather heat index warning. Crews are only working until 2-3 p.m they like to start at 7 am but some neighborhoods don't allow to start till 8 a.m, so now we are dealing with that weather issue, I don't think u have to explain the dangers of working outside in exsessive heat.

  Supply chain delays, in 2022 the production have to get materials was 20 to 36 weeks to manufacture. One job took over a year. At the time the Cahils placed there order manufacturing was estimated at 12 weeks as they were made aware of 2 times in person before they placed there order. In fact the day of there order there was a 4" oak branch in their front yard that fell due to a storm and we throughly discussed schedules and possibilities of weather delays and the reasons.This was on Feb 2 2023 since then we have experience rain flooding wind and thunderstorms the last being June 7th and 8th 2023.

  Communication I have personally discussed the schedule with *************** 5 times, one in person when order was placed, 1 prior visit and 3 times by personal phone.I give give cell to all of our customers to adress any and all concerns they may have and clear any concerns they may have.

  The email from the cahils (we did recover 6-8-23 is a complaint in response of the weather delay notification we sent out to all of pur customers prior to the complaint email.

  ************* and I had a phone conversation to discuss the schedule prior phone call was less then 10 days earlier we discussed his project and patio rail removal (by him) and once again I told him to write to remove the rails we will call with a week more notice so the rails can be removed. 

  Again we have gone over the whole schedule at leat 5 times . Again it serves no business to drag out schedules especially ours as we subject to the weather. 

  Addressing point on second letter 

  Point 1 yes the supply chain delays was brought up to the Cahils first time- 1st visit to measure and go over the Cahils needs of measurements.

  2nd visit went over drawings samples and schedule order was placed. 

  Point 2 In addition to weather delays he was also notified his project was not out of production yet. It was finished the end of May.

  ****** ***************** has been on jobsites working with installers to help catch up on the install schedule. Your email was in my pile of return call and todo list. Before I had a chance to get any of that we received a BBB complaint and here we are.I don't understand why you didn't call me directly. 

  Pont 4 I'm confused on how sending a weather delay letter is a "red flag" the reason we sent out the letter is to keep you informed of the current delays of construction we have been using that letter for  30 years (there are 2 more forms letters one year it rained for 2 months straight)

  Point 5 We will not be bullied into being forced to install your project  ahead of other customers of who ordered before you.It is unethical and we will not do it.As far as the schedule we want to install your project ASAP There is no intention for us to delay your installation. 

  Point 6 Interesting we have been using the same format contract for over 34 years and over **** projects and this observation has never came up. I'll take a fresh look at it.

  The Cahils project will be finished as soon as we can get it done. We have been working through the weekends and are dedicated to customers satisfaction The fact is the longer the projects take the company looses money and it strains cash flow with the weather it's something we need to work together to get through. 

  Sincerely ***************************;

  Customer response

  06/22/2023

  Complaint: 20185486
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  1. Thus far I have not conveyed any attempt to drop out of this contracted project. I have only asked for a definitive timeline for which I have only received a no end state narrative as described below in my previous BBB communication and associated emails mentioned. 
  2. We are now 20 weeks from signing the contract with no resolution of a projected schedule, only an open-ended period.
  3. We went from weather delays caused by rain, now heat,supply chain problems, what is next?
  4. If supply chain problems were an issue in 2022, they are not now in 2023. We were never informed of the status of our product production, if so please provide us with a copy of same.
  5. *** already stated that I contacted ****************** twice by phone, an action I initiated, not him.His response was that the timeline was an estimation, that weather (rain) was the causative reason for the delay.
  6. As *** already stated on 06/06/23 I responded to the Weather delay letter attached to Mr. ******** email of 05/17/23. In my email I asked where we were in the queue for scheduling the installation? At that time,we were 17 weeks beyond the original order date. ASUNROOM4YOUs response was as quoted, we are installing customer project that have been months ahead of yours. We will notify you when we have an exact date. So, this really did not answer my question as to a schedule timeline. I followed up with an email on 06/08/23 with another request to which I did not receive a response.
  7. In one of my conversations, I told ****************** I would remove the railing if I had appropriate notice. He said I would have a one-week notice. I dont recall if it was on my 1st or 2nd call.
  8. The only communication I have had with ****************** are two initial visits to review product and sign the contract, two phone calls initiated by me, a response to their email w/unaddressed weather delay letter of 05/17/23, their response to my email to them of 06/06/23. Mr. ***** never responded to my email of 08/08/23 specifically addressed to him.
  9. As I previously mentioned, the project measurements on the patio schematic reveal that a 10 ft x 9-inch section on one side of the patio is omitted, and not reflected on the contract.The schematic only illustrates two sides 20 ft and 27 ft, the 10 ft x 9 in section is not depicted.
  10. Red flags are points when there is a lack of communication coupled with nonresponse to requested information and is ignored by the recipient party. My response email of 06/06/23 requesting a specific question for which I received an opened ended nonresponse. The lack of response to my 06/08/23 email revealed a lack of regard and respect for me as a customer. Still ************* position is that we accept the fact there is no timeline for this project completion. Common sense dictates that that should not be the case. It is reasonable to assume that when a large amount of money is at risk,the customer is always within their right to question, request and receive definite answers from service and product providers. Opened ended timeline responses are unreasonable and should receive additional scrutiny.   
  12. I at no time bullied anyone, your previous BBB response said, and I quote All we ask of **************** to have patience and we will get to his job order as soon as we can. (5-6 weeks). Communication is a 2-way affair,customers should always be communicated with by folks that provide services and products. As I responded in my last BBB comments, and I quote At this time I would consider patience with a written commitment to schedule and complete this project NLT the 1st week of August. This provides 6-7 weeks for completion of the project You or ****************** said that I should have patience and they gave a timeline of 5-6 weeks. That is not bullying, it is kind of agreeing to ASUNROOM4YOUs proposal, as if this was a serious proposal on their behalf.
  13. So, lets talk about money. Right now, I have $61,672 tied up in this project. The down payment and loan reflect my loss of investment opportunity capital and interest on my loan,a loss that is monthly and is compounded. Look at the math on the contract, it reflects the original contract amount including discounts & incremental draws:
  14. $72,810 15% = - ($10,921) from $72,810 = as shown $61,918,
  $61,918 5% ($3096) taken from $61,918 does show a -$3096 discount, when
  deducted from adjusted price, it should reflect: $58,822,(the -5% ($3096) discount was not deducted from the $61,918).
  There was a cascading penalty from the $58,822 to the down payment and other incremental draws. Price = $58,822 - 40% = $23,528, 30%= $17,647, 25% = $14,706, 5% = $2,941.
  These are *********** math errors in the contract. The white copy he furnished clearly illustrates this, pink, not so clear. There are other significant math errors, but I used the figures in the contract.
  Regards,
  
  ***********************

• Initial Complaint

  12/10/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  We signed the contract with SUNROOM4U LLC to build a Sunroom with electrical work included on November 5, 2020. The project was delayed for almost a year as work did not start until the second week of October 2021. While the project was being done, we made all payments according to the schedule. When it was time to do electrical work before the completion of this project, SUNROOM4U LLC, refused to do the electrical work, instead, the company emailed me an amended contract. I was asked to sign the amended contract, where electrical work was removed for a credit of $300. Obviously, the amount of credit is too little for any licensed electrician to do the job. When we refused to accept the amended contract, the company refused to continue the work. They are refusing to move forward with the work that is INDEPENDENT of electrical work (such as the installation of the door and taking care of the leaky roof in the unfinished room. Since the Sunroom is not completed so when it rains, water leaks from the ceiling that floods the room (Please watch video). We have shared a video and pictures with the company showing leaks during rain. When we refused to sign the amended contract, the company threatened me with a fraudulent lien on my property despite we made all scheduled payments. Its been now almost two months since work was stopped. I have all email correspondence with this company and I can produce it if is needed. The owner of this company *********************** hardly ever answers any phone calls or text messages. His office assistant (*******) has the same issue of not talking or returning my or my wife's calls. Its been a very unpleasant experience to deal with such a company (including its owner) that does not care about the customer. Thank you.

  Business response

  12/13/2021

  We are building the project and the customer made additional electric request that's outside our scope of our contract they found their own contactor to do the work and expect us to pay for the extra work added. We removed our electrical inclusion to allow them to have their electrical work done. 

  As of now the job is on hold until they sign the change order to remove electrical work. 

  We've been emailing for months,nothing seems to get resolved. We want to finish the project as much as the cutomer's do. 

  In addition we are subject to a third party supplier which explains the time tine because of the supply change in 2021. 

  Thank you. 

  Customer response

  12/14/2021

  Complaint: 16193178
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  Door work and leaky roof is independent of the electrical dispute. The business keeps lumping it together. There is no reason to hold that work as hostage to make us sign the contract. It they also keep changing the contract. I am traveling and cant respond with the email thread later. 
  Regards,
  
  *********************** *******

  Business response

  12/15/2021

  Jobs on hold until electrical is removed Thank you

  Customer response

  12/20/2021

  Complaint: 16193178
  
  I am rejecting this response because a business contract can not be amended unilaterally. Both parties need to agree to the terms. To move forward,sunrooms4u can either send their own electrician to perform the remaining work per contract or they can pay us the current market price for the electrical job. I would add that if theres any damage to the existing structure because of the leaky roof, it will be the businesss responsibility. Thank you.
  
  Regards,
  
  *********************** *******

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩