Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  04/01/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  1/28/22 $2355 I electronically signed a contract to provide moving services from ** to NY. They held themselves out as a moving company, but they are a broker who uses other movers. When I discovered it, I asked to cancel my transaction with my salesperson. He said that accounting was closed but that my money would be refunded on Monday. At first he tried to say that I wanted to pay with another form, but I told him that I wanted to cancel my contract and get my money back. I sent them $2355 as a deposit. He stalled until the following Tuesday and claimed that it had been 3 days and I hadn't cancelled the contract, even though i had texted him that I wanted to cancel it. I put a bad review on line about them. In return for taking it down, they promised to return my money. They haven't. Its been 2 months, and they haven't returned my money and are not returning my calls. There are a growing number of people getting ripped off by them. Please do something about it.

  Business response

  04/04/2022

  The customer never stated that they had elected to cancel their move when discussing the change it payment type. Customer had asked the rep about completing payment with a different form of tender.  They customer did not cancel within the terms and conditions of the contract. A cancellation email was not received until 2/2 which was outside of the cancellation window as she booked on 1/28. However at the time we had offered a refund of the deposit in the name of customer service. Payment was mailed on March 10th. Unfortunately it is outside of Navistar Van Lines control if the United ********************* has not delivered the mail in a timely fashion.  

  8. SHOULD YOU ELECT TO CANCEL YOUR MOVE WITH NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC, WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE SENT TO *******************************. WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE RECEIVED NO LATER THAN 72 HOURS AFTER SIGNING THE NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC AGREEMENT. CANCELLATION REQUESTS RECEIVED WITHIN 72 HOURS OF SIGNING THE AGREEMENT WITH NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC WILL RECEIVE A FULL REFUND, MINUS 10% DUE TO INCURRED MERCHANT FEES. CANCELLATION REQUESTS RECEIVED AFTER THE 72 HOUR GRACE ****** ARE NON-REFUNDABLE, HOWEVER; THE DEPOSIT *** BE APPLIED TO A FUTURE MOVE WITH NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC WITHIN 24 MONTHS (2 YEARS) FROM THE DATE OF THE ORIGINAL SIGNED AGREEMENT. IF YOUR FIRST AVAILABLE PICKUP DATE IS WITHIN FIVE (5) BUSINESS DAYS OF ELECTRONICALLY SIGNING THE NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC AGREEMENT, YOUR DEPOSIT IS NON-REFUNDABLE.

  22. AS THE CUSTOMER I AGREE TO ADDRESS MY CONCERNS PROFESSIONALLY WITH MY MOVING COORDINATOR, NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC, DIRECTLY. I AGREE THAT I WILL NOT EXPRESS MY CONCERNS OR EXPERIENCES WITH NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC, IN A MANNER THAT *** DAMAGE THE COMPANY UPSTANDING NAME AND REPUTATION IN A PUBLIC FORUM. ANY DEFAMATION, VILIFICATION, OR TRADUCEMENT MADE WILL RESULT IN AN IMMEDIATE FORFEITURE OF MY DEPOSIT AND MY IMMEDIATE DENOUNCEMENT OF ANY CLAIMS MADE AGAINST NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC, I UNDERSTAND THAT I *** EXPRESS MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCES PUBLICLY ONLY AFTER I HAVE GIVEN NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC, SUFFICIENT **** TO ADDRESS MY CONCERNS, AND THE ***** AND CONDITIONS OF THE CONTRACT ARE NOT UPHELD. ANY FALSE CLAIMS OR MISCONSTRUED FACTS I OFFER TO THE PUBLIC WHILE REQUESTING REFUND OR CLAIMS WILL FORFEIT THOSE CLAIMS IF I PUBLICLY ADDRESS THESE ISSUES WHILE CLAIMS OR REFUNDS ARE STILL BEING CONTESTED OR REVIEWED.
  
  23. IN SIGNING THIS AGREEMENT, I THE CUSTOMER, AGREE THAT; **********************, HAS PROVIDED A DATED COPY OF THE ESTIMATE AND CHARGES AT THE **** I SIGNED THE AGREEMENT. NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC, HAS PROVIDED ME WITH NOTIFICATION OF THE METHODS OF PAYMENT REQUIRED TO PAY THE ***** CARRIER FOR BALANCES DUE. ALL COSTS AND CHARGES ARE CLEARLY INDICATED ON THIS ESTIMATE, AND THE CHARGES REPRESENTED ON THIS ESTIMATED ARE ONLY FOR THE SERVICES AND INVENTORY SPECIFICALLY INDICATED ON THIS ESTIMATE. NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC, SALES REPRESENTATIVE VERBALLY CONFIRMED THEIR ROLE AS A MOVING BROKER/COORDINATOR TO ME OVER THE ***** PRIOR TO PLACING THIS RESERVATION. IN CANCELING THIS RESERVATION, I WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO A REFUND OF MY DEPOSIT UNLESS MANAGEMENT APPROVES OTHERWISE.

   

  Electronic Signature:
  I hereby confirm my signature on the following document. By clicking confirm you are accepting all terms and conditions outlined in the policy remarks below on the binding moving estimate, including the cancellation policy. should you elect to cancel, written notification must be sent to ***************************** no later than 72 hours of electronically signing the Navistar Van Lines agreement. Cancellation requests received within 72 hours of electronic signature of the original contract will receive a full refund, minus 10% for incurred merchant fees. Cancellation requests received after the 72 hour grace ****** of signing the original contract are non-refundable, however; the deposit may be applied to a future move with Navistar Van Lines within 24 months (2 years) from the date of the original signed agreement. If your first available pickup date is within five (5) business days of electronically signing the Navistar Van Lines agreement, your deposit is non-refundable. The 72-hour policy does not apply to any moves reserved within 5 business days of the pick up.
  
  Document Emailed On: Wednesday, 01/26/2022 03:36:06 PM (ET)
  Document Signature Name: *********************
  Document Signature Email: *************************
  Document Signature Date: Friday, 01/28/2022 01:22:29 PM (ET)
  Document Signature IP Address: 96.238.50.141
  Internet Browser: Safari
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Initial Complaint

  03/29/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  In February, I spoke with ******** from Navistar Van Lines, who assisted with making arrangements for my move from PA to GA. We went through the list of furniture being transferred. The price wasnt something I could afford so she had her manager offer a deal that I can move ALL my belongings for $2700. I made it clear that Im a single mom, I only make so much so I cant go any higher, they assured me its for ALL my furniture and agreed. I was told I had to put a deposit for $1400, and a few days before moving day Ill receive another call to go over the furniture list once more to see if any changes need to be made. I received the call and went over the list again. Some items I mentioned during the first call were missing! I explained whats wrong and that Im only adding more boxes. I was told I have to pay another deposit of $800 b/c I added more items but theyre just over estimating for now on my items and I will be refunded for whatever items are not moved but, they cant continue unless I put another deposit down. Once again I said, I cant go over $2700 and he said ok, Ill be refunded not to worry. The day of the move comes March 11th and Im told I have to pay ANOTHER $1000 now, AND another $1000 after they drop off my furniture. Apparently, the first price I was given was only to move my couch, beds and a few dressers. The actual amount was $4220 to move everything! I was never told that and I clarified OVER AND OVER during the first AND second call that ALL MY THINGS will be moved and I CAN ONLY AFFORD what I was quoted $2700! I was assured EVERY time that yes, thats ok, not to worry! Now, these lying thieves refused to move my belongings until I paid more or, they only move my couch, bed and some dressers and I have to worry about the rest my items myself. Now, $2200 is gone after the lies I was by Navistar! They refuse to refund me with no heads up of anything, and forced to understand and do everything myself now having no help.

  Business response

  04/13/2022

  The inventory list must be reviewed and approved before clicking the link for the electronic signature for the initial contract. Sometimes items may be missed during an initial telephone call, or items may be added or removed from the list between the time of booking and the time of pickup. For this reason, the ***************** team must review the inventory 3-5 days before the move to obtain a final inventory for the drivers. Based on the amount of space your items would occupy inside the truck, your estimate would be calculated accordingly. If additional service is required, the estimate should be adjusted based on the previously agreed upon rate per cubic foot. After quality assurance, the estimate increased to 97 items at 553 cubic feet. Your original estimate was 59 items at 376 cubic feet. While we understand that our customers have a budget, we must charge for the services provided as with any service provider. Any cancellations outside of the 72 hour window the deposit is non refundable as per the contract.   

  Customer response

  04/13/2022

   
  Complaint: 16958208
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  nothing is mentioned about the representative promising me that ALL my belongings would be sent over not just SOME with the first price given of $2700.  I repeatedly said OVER AND OVER I ONLY have that amount to move EVERYTHING and he confirmed YES THAT IS OK! It wasnt until moving day that Im then told its only a FEW items that will be moved and Im responsible to move the rest of my things unless I pay 2K more! H*** no! I was played and scammed into getting in an agreement with FALSE information!!! And all through the process more items are missing and still being taken advantage with MORE FALSE INFORMATION AND BROKEN PROMISES! Ive made it clear a million times what I had and I was promised EVERYTHING WILL BE MOVED!!!!!
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

  Business response

  04/22/2022

  Booking agents ask for a inventory of items to be moved for a reason. It is also written in the estimate that the estimate only covers the inventory provided and the estimated volume based upon that information. Its also explained that you only have 72 hours to cancel your move to receive a refund of the deposit. 
  
  9. CUSTOMER HAS ELECTED A "BINDING TO NOT EXCEED" *****, THE ***** COST WILL NOT EXCEED THE ESTIMATED AMOUNT; PROVIDED, HOWEVER THAT CUSTOMER PROVIDES ********************** WITH AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF THE ***** TO BE MOVED AND THE SERVICES TO BE PERFORMED. CUSTOMER HAS REQUESTED TO HAVE AN ESTIMATE PROVIDED FOR HIS/HER HOUSEHOLD GOODS RELOCATION, IN ACCORDANCE WITH 49 CFR 371.113(C)(1), CUSTOMER AGREES TO WAIVE A PHYSICAL SURVEY OF THE HOUSEHOLD GOODS, AND ALTERNATIVELY AGREES TO RECEIVE A BINDING TO NOT EXCEED ESTIMATE BASED UPON THE SHIPPER PROVIDED ITEM LIST OF PROPERTY TO BE TRANSPORTED. IF ANY ADDITIONAL PIECES, PACKING SERVICES, WEIGHT OR LABOR SERVICES ARE ADDED AT THE ORIGIN OR DESTINATION TO THOSE QUOTED, THE CUSTOMER SHALL BE CHARGED FOR THESE SERVICES AT THE GOVERNING TARIFF RATES. CUSTOMER UNDERSTANDS THAT ********************** HAS A **** LBS MINIMUM ON ALL SHIPMENTS. ANY SHIPMENT BELOW **** LBS. WILL BE CHARGED AT ******** LBS RATE. THE ***** INCLUDES ALL FUEL SURCHARGES, TOLLS, LOAD AND UNLOAD, BASIC DISASSEMBLY AND REASSEMBLY OF STANDARD FURNITURE *****, UP TO 75 FEET OF LONG CARRY AT ORIGIN AND DESTINATION AND 1 FLIGHTS OF STAIRS. ELABORATE FURNITURE ***** THAT NEED TO BE DISASSEMBLED AND/OR REASSEMBLED MAY REQUIRE 3RD PARTY SERVICING OR ADDITIONAL LABOR AND SHOULD BE DISCLOSED TO YOUR ESTIMATOR AND INCLUDED IN YOUR ESTIMATE. DISCONNECTING AND/OR RECONNECTING OF APPLIANCES IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE *****. REASSEMBLY IS SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF TOOLS AND/OR ALL PARTIES BEING AVAILABLE. THE PACKING AND UNPACKING OF BOXES IS ONLY INCLUDED IN THE ***** IF IT IS ITEMIZED IN THE PACKING AND UNPACKING SECTION OF YOUR ESTIMATE; ALL MATERIALS/LABOR FOR UNDISCLOSED ***** WILL BE EXTRA.

  Customer response

  04/22/2022

   
  Complaint: 16958208
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  Once again, getting no answers as to how your sales rep played a single mom who made it clear this was her first time using a moving company and had no idea how the process works as well as made it clear on the amount she can only pay and the sales agreed all her belonging would be taken NOT A FEW ITEMS?! Youre refusing on taking ownership that your sales rep played a customer to make a sale and get more money when it has been made clear her situation and what she can afford and instead of being a good company and doing what is right, you instead want to argue your way of saying the sales rep did nothing wrong but its WAY MORE THAN CLEAR that this company scams people into thinking they will pay only one amount and ALL their belongings will be sent, then have them sign forms and then say no we didnt say that, this is what you signed. True scammers! 
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

• Initial Complaint

  03/19/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Sales and Advertising Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On or about 2/3/22 i contacted navistar for an interstate move . I was quoted for items such as specialty crating for high dollar items i was moving , as well as 9 boxes . i never received these items . in addition to goods never received , the estimate navistar provided its moving contractors was grossly underestimated .I want to understand why this happened , as i was pretty accurate in my inventory . Navistar let me know within 3-5 days they would have the inventory list provided by the company they contracted to do my move , and would do a comparison . it has now been 11 business days and no itemized list . The **** of lading provided by the moving contractor does not include this inventory list . i was informed by the moving contractor i would need to go back to navistar . many items in contract were not provided .contract states moving blankets will be provided . however the specialty crating i paid for in estimate was for additional moving blankets to cover my high dollar items .contract states disassemble and reassemble of items . i was told upon delivery there would be additional monies required to reassemble .contract outlines exact mileage provided by navistar from destination to origin based on address i provided . pick up and delivery were to exact addresses , however moving contractors stated the additional mileage they had to travel would also be extra .i ended up being bullied into paying ****** for extra mileage and reassemble of my washer or they would not unload my items off the truck .contracted movers had broken many of my items , dents , missing pieces , broken tables . a claim to repair these items takes 6 months via a website that is impossible to navigate through all the spam ads . lastly , contracted movers left tape and garbage behind . they also came with no tools to reassemble items . i provided these tools , and they stole them !

  Business response

  04/13/2022

  *******,
  
  It is expected that the final paperwork at delivery will include an inventory list, as this would be required if there are any damages. According to the notes on the file, there was an additional charge at pickup because of the need for special packing to protect your items. It does not appear that I have been charged for additional miles, but there was an additional fuel surcharge. The fuel surcharge is determined by the amount of space used within the truck. An increase in the fuel surcharge may result if extra space is required at the time of pickup. Reassembly, hookup, or disconnecting of appliances is not covered by the contract. In cases where the tools and services are available at the time of delivery, these services will be provided at an additional cost. Navistar Van Lines and the carrier do not control the claim services as these services are provided by a third party. The process of filing a claim can be lengthy, as with medical or auto claims. For information about the services covered, please see the following.

  
  DISCONNECTING AND/OR RECONNECTING OF APPLIANCES IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE ****** REASSEMBLY IS SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF TOOLS AND/OR ALL PARTIES BEING AVAILABLE. THE PACKING AND UNPACKING OF BOXES IS ONLY INCLUDED IN THE ***** IF IT IS ITEMIZED IN THE PACKING AND UNPACKING SECTION OF YOUR ESTIMATE; ALL MATERIALS/LABOR FOR UNDISCLOSED ITEMS WILL BE EXTRA.

  Customer response

  04/13/2022

   
  Complaint: 16915490
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  this is still a typical bait and switch .

  i also do not see where the special boxes i paid for and the reason why they were not provided . i want my money back for those items NOT PROVIDED , and clearly outlined in contract .

  the driver , who was drinking on the job at destination did not say fuel surcharge they said mileage . i also notice the business did provide explanation into why original estimate has exaggerated mileage , where several routes can be easily mapped , and not one of those routes add up to mileage they provided .

  Also dont see an explanation about the theft of tools , and the tape left all over my items . 
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************************

  Business response

  05/03/2022

  You will need to speak to the carrier directly about any compensation for the boxes you are claiming were not provided. Payment for the packing supplies are paid directly to the carrier. According to the signed paperwork the items were supplied.

  Customer response

  05/03/2022

   
  Complaint: 16915490
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  Carrier directs me back to you , as the original estimate comes from you . YOU hired the carrier , not me . YOU were dishonest that you were not a broker, not me .  I hired and paid you for boxes and crates and for moving services , not the carrier . remember ? you sales team was adamant that this was not a broker and that you would have serviced my move .

  carrier also states that navistar was well aware they do not provide materials , and its my fault for allowing navistar to write it into the estimate since navistar was fully aware of the carriers limitations .

  How come you have never sent me this paperwork stating that these items were provided ?

  per my emails on or about 3/8 navistar was to look at the **** of landing from the carrier and provide to me within 3-5 business days . that was 2 months ago and i have yet to see that comparison done by Navistar .

  For the better business bureau - this response is why so many consumers are filing reports against this business .

  How is this even ethical ? 

  Sincerely,
  
  ***************************

• Initial Complaint

  03/09/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Sales and Advertising Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Please see attached detailed narrative of fraud and deceptive business practices on the part of Navistar Van Lines and JJ Moving and Storage.

  We believe we are victims of household goods moving fraud involving Navistar Van Lines,
  and J J Moving and storage. We provide the narrative below as evidence. In addition, our
  experience with both moving companies align with much of the “Red Flag” indicators of fraud, as
  outlined in the OIG’s website (see https://www.oig.dot.gov/investigations/household-goods-
  moving-fraud). These indicators include, but are not limited to:
  • The address listed for Navistar is not their real address.
  • The addresses listed for Navistar and J J Moving appear to be home addresses, as
  opposed to a real business address.
  • Both moving companies were established in August, 2021, but give the appearance
  of having been in business much longer.
  • Navistar did not offer or agree to an onsite inspection as part of the quote process.
  • To my knowledge, Navistar did not provide us with a copy of “Your Rights and
  Responsibilities When You Move” booklet, but was provided a URL to it in the
  contract.
  • Navistar required urgent initial payment by check.
  • On moving day, JJ Movers arrived in a series of U-haul/Penske move trucks,
  insufficient for the quantity of items in our home.
  • J J Movers required additional up-front payment as deposit before the move.
  • J J Movers increased the price of our move by 70% after our household goods were
  loaded onto multiple trucks.
  • J J Movers employed a fugitive felon to pack and load our household goods while
  we were in our home with the fugitive for two days.
  Background
  While selecting a mover for our inter-state move, we found the website for Navistar Van
  Lines, LLC (“Navistar”). On this site Navistar represents that it takes “extra caution with your
  belongings to correctly secure and label all of the fragile items so that they arrive safely and in 1
  piece. We package similar items together, keeping in mind how they will likely be unpacked and
  organized at the new location.” Navistar also promises that “our dedication to you is that all
  foreseeable expenses and fees are transparent and upfront so that you know just what you’re paying
  for before we even get started – quality service without any hidden fees.”1
  In early February, believing that we were dealing with a reputable company, we received
  a Binding Moving Estimate (the “Contract”) from Navistar to act as a “moving coordinator/shipper
  agent/broker” for our move. While we were initially surprised that Navistar would not itself
  perform any moving services, we trusted Navistar’s representations about the quality of its network
  1 See https://navistarvanlines.com/services/ (last visited March 3, 2022).
  
  
  
  
  and Navistar’s ability to coordinate a smooth, hassle-free move.
  We also worked with Navistar’s customer representative, “Brandon”, to compile a list of
  the household goods and furniture to be moved. “Brandon” then calculated the estimated value and
  weight of the shipment incorporated into the Contract..
  Pursuant to the terms of its own Contract, Navistar was obligated to provide professional
  moving services, which included, without limitation:
  • “Professional Door-to-Door service.”
  • “Expert advice and guidance throughout the course of your move.”
  • “Wrapping of all furniture with quilted moving blankets.”
  • “Itemized inventory indicating condition at origin of items”
  • “Standard cargo protection up to $10,000 based on 0.60 centers per pound . . .”
  • “No charge for packing tape and moving pads.”
  • A “binding not to exceed” price. Navistar initially provided us with a low-ball estimate
  of $14,000.00. The amount charged subsequently increased to $17,204.00 and then to
  $29,000.00, by J J Moving and Storage.
  See Contract.
  As a result of Navistar’s representations, we electronically signed the Contract on January
  24, 2022. We also paid Navistar a deposit fee of $5,804 by check. Navistar promised that our
  household goods and property would be packed on February 22-23, and delivered by February 27.
  To coordinate the actual move, Navistar subcontracted with JJ Moving and Storage, LLC
  (“JJ Moving and Storage”). Both companies mimic the names of more established brands.
  Just prior to the move, we updated our inventory with Navistar to include additional items,
  including a refrigerator, which increased the “binding not to exceed” price from $14,000.00 to
  $17,204.00. Navistar required that an additional $1,200.00 be sent to cover the deposit on the
  price increase, which we paid by check.
  Navistar confirmed the pack-out for February 22-23 with delivery to our new home in Nevada,
  Texas in 3-5 days. Both Navistar and JJ Moving and Storage’s representatives told us that our
  household goods and furniture would be professionally transported on a semi-truck.
  On February 22, the first day of the scheduled pack-out, JJ Moving and Storage failed to
  come to our house. As a result, we lost a critical day of moving. Even after we reported the no-
  show, JJ Moving and Storage neglected to send any personnel until the afternoon of February 23.
  Even then, the movers arrived with a small U-Haul truck—not a semi-truck—and sparse packing
  material.
  
  While the Contract promised that furniture would be disassembled and wrapped in quilted
  moving blankets, the movers failed to protect much of the furniture. Indeed, most of the furniture
  was wrapped in plastic wrap and thrown into the truck with little care for breakable items. The
  small U-Haul truck was woefully insufficient to transport our belongings. Eventually, the movers
  brought in a second, small Penske truck. At the end of the first day of packing and loading, the
  movers informed us that the move cost would likely increase by as much as $1,500.00 to
  $2,000.00. The next day, the movers brought a third U-Haul truck. Even then, the movers were
  unable to pack all of our household goods and they refused to bring another truck. The movers told
  us that we were on our own with respect to transporting the rest of our property, including
  household items such as a queen size bed, other household furniture and items, and many items in
  the garage.
  Once the movers loaded the three trucks with all of the goods that they were willing to
  move, JJ Moving and Storage unilaterally announced that the price had increased from $17,204.00
  to $29,000.00. The movers also demanded the immediate payment of another $11,600.00. In
  effect, JJ Moving and Storage held our property for ransom and refused to transport the property
  to our new home until they paid the additional amount. Additionally, the movers informed us that
  upon delivery in Texas, the remaining balance must be paid in cash before anything would be off-
  loaded. Under duress, we paid the deposit for the $11,600 cost increase via credit card.
  To make matters worse, JJ Moving and Storage told us that the delivery window of 3-5
  days would be extended to 10-21 days, or more, as they have up to 30 days to do so. The movers
  explained that they needed the additional time to transport the goods from our old home in
  Meridian, Idaho to JJ Moving and Storage’s headquarters in Seattle, Washington to be offloaded
  and inventoried. The movers said that the goods would then be re-loaded in Seattle to a semi-truck
  that would transport the household goods to Nevada, Texas.
  The movers ’story about why they needed to make an 8-hour detour to Seattle was false.
  In fact, the movers took our property to a storage facility a few miles away from our home; a unit
  we learned from the storage facility’s manager the mover had reserved days in advance. We only
  discovered that our belongings were in local storage due to a GPS tracking device that we placed
  in one of our boxes. At this point, we began to believe that our property was being intentionally
  jettisoned, having paid JJ Moving and Storage $11,600 the evening before.
  At the storage facility, the movers unloaded a portion of our property into a 24” x 12” unit.
  The items were so carelessly stacked and crammed into the unit that the manager of the storage
  facility had to confront the movers about breaking the storage door. Multiple items, including a
  table, were broken. A TV fell when the storage unit was re-opened. The manager of the storage
  facility informed us that the movers claimed that our property was their own.
  Also sensing that the movers were part of a scam, the manager advised us to call the police.
  When the police intercepted the movers, they determined that one of the movers was actually a
  fugitive who was wanted in Texas.2
  At this point, we have no idea whether all our property exists at the same storage facility,
  2 Convicted twice of aggravated robbery, this individual should never have been allowed into our home or around
  young children.
  
  or whether the movers took some of our property to another facility. Our belongings may be stored
  in multiple units in different states. We are currently living at our new home in Nevada, Texas
  with nothing but a few days of necessities.
  Throughout, we attempted to contact Brandon at Navistar’s quality assurance department,
  to no response at all. When we did reach someone, we were told we were on our own to deal with
  JJ Moving.
  As a result of all of this, we were forced to contract with another moving company to have
  our household goods moved from the storage facility in Idaho to our home in Nevada, Texas. We
  are hopeful that you will investigate the deceptive and fraudulent business practices of these
  moving companies

  Business response

  03/21/2022

  Navistar Van Lines provided Jeff with a binding not to exceed estimate. According to the Department of Transportation, a "Binding Not To Exceed" estimate covers the volume and services specified in the estimate. According to Section 9 of the estimate, as well as "Your Rights And Responsibilities When You Move" Brochure provided to customers, as per the requirements of the Department of Transportation, there may be additional charges in the case of additional items, weight, or services not previously agreed upon at the time of pickup.When the carrier did arrive on site there was a vast amount of items not listed on the customers inventory, which is the reason for additional charges. Furthermore, JJ Moving & Storage, the carrier, did offload the items into a storage unit to load them onto a semitrailer, as stated in the additional fees and accessorial services section of our estimate. It is explained that deliveries do take place via an 18-wheeler. JJ Moving & Storage contacted us within a few days of pickup to let us know that they attempted to contact the customer to confirm the customer was ready and able to make the delivery. The customer informed us on the 28th that they do not wish to have their items loaded and that they will not accept delivery. I have attached a copy of the bill of lading for your review, as well as a copy of our contract, as I believe you may find them useful.
  
  
  
  9. CUSTOMER HAS ELECTED A "BINDING TO NOT EXCEED" PRICE, THE TOTAL COST WILL NOT EXCEED THE ESTIMATED AMOUNT; PROVIDED, HOWEVER THAT CUSTOMER PROVIDES NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC WITH AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEMS TO BE MOVED AND THE SERVICES TO BE PERFORMED. CUSTOMER HAS REQUESTED TO HAVE AN ESTIMATE PROVIDED FOR HIS/HER HOUSEHOLD GOODS RELOCATION, IN ACCORDANCE WITH 49 CFR 371.113(C)(1), CUSTOMER AGREES TO WAIVE A PHYSICAL SURVEY OF THE HOUSEHOLD GOODS, AND ALTERNATIVELY AGREES TO RECEIVE A BINDING TO NOT EXCEED ESTIMATE BASED UPON THE SHIPPER PROVIDED ITEM LIST OF PROPERTY TO BE TRANSPORTED. IF ANY ADDITIONAL PIECES, PACKING SERVICES, WEIGHT OR LABOR SERVICES ARE ADDED AT THE ORIGIN OR DESTINATION TO THOSE QUOTED, THE CUSTOMER SHALL BE CHARGED FOR THESE SERVICES AT THE GOVERNING TARIFF RATES. CUSTOMER UNDERSTANDS THAT NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC HAS A 2450 LBS MINIMUM ON ALL SHIPMENTS. ANY SHIPMENT BELOW 2450 LBS. WILL BE CHARGED AT THE 2450 LBS RATE. THE PRICE INCLUDES ALL FUEL SURCHARGES, TOLLS, LOAD AND UNLOAD, BASIC DISASSEMBLY AND REASSEMBLY OF STANDARD FURNITURE ITEMS, UP TO 75 FEET OF LONG CARRY AT ORIGIN AND DESTINATION AND 1 FLIGHTS OF STAIRS. ELABORATE FURNITURE ITEMS THAT NEED TO BE DISASSEMBLED AND/OR REASSEMBLED MAY REQUIRE 3RD PARTY SERVICING OR ADDITIONAL LABOR AND SHOULD BE DISCLOSED TO YOUR ESTIMATOR AND INCLUDED IN YOUR ESTIMATE. DISCONNECTING AND/OR RECONNECTING OF APPLIANCES IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE PRICE. REASSEMBLY IS SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF TOOLS AND/OR ALL PARTIES BEING AVAILABLE. THE PACKING AND UNPACKING OF BOXES IS ONLY INCLUDED IN THE PRICE IF IT IS ITEMIZED IN THE PACKING AND UNPACKING SECTION OF YOUR ESTIMATE; ALL MATERIALS/LABOR FOR UNDISCLOSED ITEMS WILL BE EXTRA.
  
  Additional fees and Accessorial Services (if applicable to the move):: 
  If not included within the agreement, professional packing services are not included. However, it is at the discretion of the mover at the time of pickup to determine if items will require professional packing services. In these instances, additional charges will be applied. These items include but are not limited to the following: televisions, mirrors, glass tabletops, wall art, contents within dresser drawers, etc.
  Packing supplies, such as bubble wrap, shrink wrap, boxes, etc. are not included
  Items being transported that are non-stackable, are considered Bulky items. A Bulky item charge will apply for those non-stackable items, as deemed by the mover at the time of pickup. 
  If there is more than one flight of stairs at your origin and (or) destination which require the movers to transport items beyond the first flight, there will be a charge of $75 per additional flight. There will be no charge for the first flight of stairs at either the origin or destination.
  Most movers within the Navistar Van Lines LLC network perform the pickup and delivery using a tractor trailer (18 wheeler). Drivers must have the ability to park within 75 feet at both the origin and destination points to avoid long carry charges. Depending on the size of the job, long carry charges start at $150.00. If the tractor trailer cannot park within a reasonable distance, shuttle services may be required. Shuttle services begin at $300.00.
  

  Business response

  03/29/2022

  *** *****r,
  
  As per the Department of Transportation definition, as defined in your contract, is as follows.
  
  
  
  IN ACCORDANCE WITH 49 CFR 371.113(C)(1), CUSTOMER AGREES TO WAIVE A PHYSICAL SURVEY OF THE HOUSEHOLD GOODS, AND ALTERNATIVELY AGREES TO RECEIVE A BINDING TO NOT EXCEED ESTIMATE BASED UPON THE SHIPPER PROVIDED ITEM LIST OF PROPERTY TO BE TRANSPORTED. IF ANY ADDITIONAL PIECES, PACKING SERVICES, WEIGHT OR LABOR SERVICES ARE ADDED AT THE ORIGIN OR DESTINATION TO THOSE QUOTED, THE CUSTOMER SHALL BE CHARGED FOR THESE SERVICES AT THE GOVERNING TARIFF RATES. CUSTOMER UNDERSTANDS THAT NAVISTAR VAN LINES LLC HAS A 2450 LBS MINIMUM ON ALL SHIPMENTS. ANY SHIPMENT BELOW 2450 LBS. WILL BE CHARGED AT THE 2450 LBS RATE. THE PRICE INCLUDES ALL FUEL SURCHARGES, TOLLS, LOAD AND UNLOAD, BASIC DISASSEMBLY AND REASSEMBLY OF STANDARD FURNITURE ITEMS, UP TO 75 FEET OF LONG CARRY AT ORIGIN AND DESTINATION AND 1 FLIGHTS OF STAIRS. ELABORATE FURNITURE ITEMS THAT NEED TO BE DISASSEMBLED AND/OR REASSEMBLED MAY REQUIRE 3RD PARTY SERVICING OR ADDITIONAL LABOR AND SHOULD BE DISCLOSED TO YOUR ESTIMATOR AND INCLUDED IN YOUR ESTIMATE. DISCONNECTING AND/OR RECONNECTING OF APPLIANCES IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE PRICE. REASSEMBLY IS SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF TOOLS AND/OR ALL PARTIES BEING AVAILABLE. THE PACKING AND UNPACKING OF BOXES IS ONLY INCLUDED IN THE PRICE IF IT IS ITEMIZED IN THE PACKING AND UNPACKING SECTION OF YOUR ESTIMATE; ALL MATERIALS/LABOR FOR UNDISCLOSED ITEMS WILL BE EXTRA. The items that were not disclosed to us are not covered in the Binding not to exceed estimate. According to the Bill of Lading, there are at least 100 extra items on the inventory. According to the definitions and regulations established by the Department of Transportation, these additional items are not included in the price of the estimate. It is difficult for me to see how Navistar Van Lines or JJ Moving and Storage could be considered negligent if all the items you wished to move were not provided to us. Upon booking your move, you provided us with an inventory of 195 items, and also signed an agreement that this was a correct inventory of items to move, and the pickup paperwork indicated that there were more than that amount of items within the boxes alone. As per your contract if there are any damages you must submit a claim within JJ Moving and Storage, as they are the carrier and physically handled your goods. We have not been informed by neither yourself or the legal representation that you had reached out to on your behalf that you needed to file a claim for damaged goods.

  Customer response

  03/31/2022

  
  Complaint: 16857959
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Navistar failed to address ANY of our concerns, which is indicative of not only their continued deceptive business practices, but their complete lack of concern over our issues.  We have factually outlined Navistar’s deceptive business practices in detail which parallel, nearly to the letter, the Better Business Bureau’s own markers for a mover scam.  Navistar’s response is simply to point back to their contract.
  

  What Navistar won’t reveal is their intentional misleading tactics during the sales-to-contract phase where they orally tell you over the phone that: a) you can have your belongings delivered at the date you specify, b) that although they don’t and won’t perform detailed surveys to ensure the price matches the “estimate”, they assure you that the final the price will match the estimate (until the movers grossly upcharge us), c) they don’t properly vet their movers to ensure that Navistar’s clients don’t get ripped off, d) they don’t properly vet their movers to ensure that your basic safety is not in jeopardy, e) appear to be in collusion with the actual movers to rip their customers off (i.e. Ironically, Navistar and JJ Moving opened for business at the same month last year), e) when you do have issues with the movers Navistar brokered during the move, Navistar will tell you over the phone that “you’re on your own”, and completely ignore your emails documenting your concerns.
  
  If Navistar was genuinely interested in their customer’s concerns, and used even a “reasonable person” standard, they would be aghast at the movers they poorly brokered for us who grossly mishandled and broke many of our belongings, couldn’t load all of our belongings, repeatedly lied to us about cost increases and about where our property was going after loading our belongings, and who hired a fugitive felon (multiple counts of aggravated robbery) who was in our home with us for two full days.  Instead, Navistar’s response is to point us to legalese that only serves to protect them from liability, and ignores serious and valid complaints from their own “customer”.  It’s clear that Navistar has no intention of “reaching a fair and reasonable resolution”.  Otherwise, Navistar would do everything in their power to take our complaint seriously, look inwardly to assess their own sales tactics, contract language, supply chain, and basic standards of decency, and attempt to make things right for their customers.   
  
  It is my sincere hope that the BBB takes our situation with Navistar seriously so the BBB can help prevent future movers from falling prey to Navistar, and the movers, like JJ Moving and Storage, that they broker.  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** ******

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩