ComplaintsforCustom Copper And Zinc

• Initial Complaint

  11/28/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Sales and Advertising Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Custom Copper and Zinc had walked out from the job site on our residential home without completing it. We are stuck with the materials and unfinished project, and request resolution. We contacted Custom Copper and Zinc (CCZ) to request a quote for siding replacement with zinc material on several sections of our primary residence. Custom Copper and Zinc is ************ companies in ************** who works with zinc and can provide quality installation of this material. On October 20th, 2022, CCZ emailed us a quote for labor and materials. On 10/28/22 1st half of the payment for materials was made, and on 11/14/22 the remainder of material payment was made. We paid in full for the materials for the entire project with an intent that the project will be completed in full. The crew started working on the project on 11/7. We have been given 8 weeks time frame for the completion of the project by CCZ. CCZ started working on the project in sections. By 11/22 ( 2 full weeks into the project ), 1/4 of the entire project should have been completed ( based on the timeline given by CCZ ). The entire project was to cover **** ** of siding with zinc panels, removing previous wood siding, and placing plywood under the zinc. The crew did not show on 11/22, and CCZ had called the police reinforcement to come by and pick up all the equipment they had on site. Only 450 ** of siding was removed, and replaced with plywood. NO zinc panels have been installed by that time. We paid for the entire **** ** of zinc material, and no zinc panels have been installed. We request the project to be completed.

  Business response

  12/05/2022

  To whom it may concern:
  I am writing this letter in response to the complaint submitted against CC&Z, ID number ********.
  
  As the owner and operator of CC&Z I strive to provide my clients the best quality service possible. As a professional, I focus on providing with quality labor and the experience for over 22 years to complete their projects effectively.
  I am aware of the complaint it was submitted against my company and I respectfully disagree with it.
  
  The reason I decided to stop the project was because this client failed to make payment of the labor that was already done at his house.
  The client made 2 payments, one on 10/28/22 for zinc coil deposit and another on 11/14/22, both payments were only for zinc coil, fabrication and delivery of zinc panels delivered to his garage. Those payments do not cover any other materials or labor. We agreed to comply to make weekly payments and He failed to comply with this arrangement.
  Client is constantly changing his mind about the project causing delays or extra work (change orders) he is not willing to pay. I explained to the client that change orders requiere extra work, but He demands CC&Z to cover any extra cost. Furthermore, the client constantly interferes with CC&Z profesional labor and suggests different ways to do things that do not go along CC&Z work ethic. Example: I was to work only on one area at a time, that way I am able to protect walls from weather inconveniences or pest. The client hired a different crew to remove the siding of other areas. That action was reckless, he exposed the unit unnecessary to sudden weather changes that could cause serious damage to the walls. He asked me to open up the walls, leave them open overnight so he can put the insulation. 
  On top of that, Client suggest and sets the price for my work. I did explain to him that I drive 103 miles to come to work to his house for these unforeseen circumstances. My services go along with a price already disclosed, this action is not appreciated.
  The reason I called the police was for reinforcement when i picked up my equipment at the clients house on 11/23/22, it was because He threaten me over the phone to physically fight him on the last phone call made on Saturday 11/19/22, the client yelled frantically at me, He sounded frustrated because he did not want to pay any costs due to change orders, I did not feel safe.
  
  Since the client failed to make weekly payment, I gave him a notification on 11/22/22 by email, stating that CC&Z will stop the project, client failed to do payment, therefore on November 23 2022, I decided to pick up my property. The zinc material He purchased was left in his garage.
  
  In conclusion, it is important to mention that until now I have not had any complaints from any of my customers who know about the process and nature of working with metals. Reason why this is frustrating to me, however, I am willing to come to an agreement with the client, but Client needs to understand that He needs to be respectful when talking to me, that I cannot fulfill his unreasonable demands, commit to extra costs caused by extra labor and materials due to change orders and He needs to pay in full the amount owed for the labor done up to this date. As a small company I do not offer financing his project, therefore a weekly payment is expected on Thursdays.
  
  I look forward to resolving this awkward situation as soon as possible.
  Respectfully, 
  ***** with custom copper and zinc LLC

  Customer response

  12/10/2022

   
  Complaint: 18465206
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  In the ***********************, a general contractor must be licensed if the contract is valued at $30,000 or higher. We have search bbb.org for proof that the Custom Copper and Zinc LLC  is a licensed contractor, and could not find any proof. The total contract for our resident at ***** Regis ** is $50,200.48. *****, the owner of Custom Copper and Zinc LLC, had requested from us that the total project payments to be broken down into sections, so each invoice will not exceed $30K. This  deceitful practice shows how untrustworthy *****, the owner of Custom Copper and Zinc LLC, is. In addition to that, according to ************** law the minimum down-payment on a residential project can be 1% of the total project cost, or $1000, whichever is less. We are not responsible to make any requested weekly payments outside of the down-payment until the project is completed. The down-payment check was prepared and ready for ***** pick up the day before he decided to walk out of our project site, and take all his equipment.
  
  Since the complaint was filed, we invited a LICENSED contractor to come and quote our residential project. They work directly with VMZINC, the manufacturer of zinc product that we wanted to install on our property. The licensed contractor had inspected the materials (zinc) that ***** said he bought for our project, and found out that there are actually 3 different types of zinc material in our garage. The licensed contractor concluded that it is not advised to used 3 different types of zinc material because they may not be compatible with each other, they would need a warranty for each zinc product, and that we should have received the warranty from ***** upon delivery of the zinc product. We have since requested the warranty for all 3 products in our garage by email, and did not receive the response. Without warranty we can not use the materials and no licensed contractor will work with the materials we paid for. We have given ample time to ***** to produce requested warranty on the material (zinc), and now we will have to return the materials back to *****.
  Regarding the "professional labor" and the statement that we "do things that do not go along CC&Z work ethic" we have to state that what we have suggested for ***** and the crew to do is the most detailed and high attention to the quality of work that we have requested of him, that we did not received. His crew had cut corners on house wrapping, placing it in a sloppy manner, allowing the moisture to collect under it, therefore damaging our house in the process. The plywood that was put up under the house wrap was a treated plywood, and according to the LICENSED contractor we mentioned, is NOT ACCEPTABLE as an under layer because it is treated and therefore will start leaking the chemicals it is treated with. It is ONLY advised to used treated plywood on the outside of the walls, NOT under the house wrap. We NEVER requested the treated plywood as a material to use, so we question the intentions of ***** to use a material that is detrimental to the standard and quality of work we request from any contractor we are willing to work with. Also, the plywood was placed by *****'s crew in a manner so that is not flash with each panel, has no leveled connections, therefore making it challenging to place a flat zinc panel on an unleveled plywood surface. If ***** is such a professional why would he allow his crew to deliver such poor workmanship?
  In addition, because the crew was working very slowly, and the project  did not seem to be moving in a pace to be completed on schedule, we had help during one of the weekends with some of the labor work on the project by another crew, to assist *****'s crew and make the progress move along. Instead, ***** did not take advantage of this assistance, and did not do what he said he would do, leaving the siding of our house exposed.
  It is untrue that we have cased any delays in the progress, we had hired help to assist with moving the project along. Also, we have raised questions regarding the extra charges for additional work, charges that seemed unreasonable, and the lack of communication regarding the extra work. For example, a small pieces of rectangular wood was charged at an unreasonable price, and we were told that it is so because of the mileage ***** had to drive, not the cost of the material. This is not professional. We were overcharged.
  
  Mentioning the mileage to and from the project location is unprofessional and irrelevant. Any contractor is aware of the mileage to the project before they sign off on working on it, so mentioning how long it takes to get to location has nothing to do with quality one contractor should deliver.
  There was no threat to ***** during the phone conversation. ***** started to use common names such as "bro" on a professional conversation, and it was not accepted. It was mentioned to ***** that he needs to be professional and finish the project, and if not will would address it legally.
  Finally, we feel overcharged and taken advantage of by *****, the owner of Custom Copper and Zinc LLC, and the workmanship of his crew and details we have discovered are clear that we do not trust he will complete our project to the quality, detail orientation, and a high standard that we deserve and request.
  
  We would like to make known that Custom Copper and Zinc LLC and ***** can not be trusted to provide high quality and high standard of workmanship.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************************

  Business response

  12/16/2022

  December 15, 2022 
  In response to the claim 18465206
  It is very disappointing to conclude that the Client is not willing to come to a reasonable agreement.  Since the beginning of the project, I noted to the client that I am a VMZINC certified installer. {See proof of certification}
  From the start, Im being very transparent about my credentials and the terms of the project. I did not mention I was a General Contractor either verbally or in a written form to the Client.  The client agreed to the terms of the project stipulated on the contract. Client had no problems with me not being a contractor until it was time to pay change orders and for the finished work at his house. Client started to come up with his own terms backing himself up with the excuse that I am not a contractor.
  With his actions he is showing that he is not acting in good faith or that he wants to come to an agreement. For example, Client called VMZINC asking for materials warranty when Client knew since the beginning, that I bought the Zinc material from a private party. The contract stipulates that there is not either warranty or refund on the Zinc material. Furthermore, the fact that the Client filed a claim to the ************************ (December 12 2022) to get his money back without any previous notice, it is not ok and complicates the process of an agreement. Client still has the material at his house, and he has not reached out to me to grant ********** to pick it up. My concern is that Zinc could get damaged if stored for too long at that location since the garage door does not close properly. Weather conditions, like high humidity can affect the good condition of the Zinc.
  I offered to come to an agreement in my last letter if he pays the work labor already done at his house, but the Client has already looked for another installer. This makes me think that he does not want to resolve the matter with CCZ.  In any field every professional works differently, although I respect every professionals opinion and their work, but I also have over 22 years of experience on the sheet metal field and no single complaint to back me up. I would appreciate if a copy of the report of the Licensed contractor made to the residential projectit is provided to me and I am willing to explain/clarify/ answer any question to the Client. Now, referring to what Client said about Licensed Contractor report, and I quote, The licensed contractor concluded that it is not advised to use 3 different types of zinc materials because they may not be compatible with each other. This statement is not true, according to thefollowing reference, zinc it is compatible with zinc. (See VMZINC chart). As for the treated plywood used, seems that Licensed contractor or Client it is not aware that the Zinc will not be in direct contact with the plywood. I already had experience with applying this form of installation and it is being approved by Zinc manufacturers and Architects. The reason I use treated plywood is to avoid termites and pest since it is and exterior wall. On my last wall cladding job we separated treated wood from zinc with regular house wrap approved  by VMZINC and team of architects, including a licensed General Contractor. ( See attached diagrams)
  It is true that Client hired extra help without informing me about this. I understand his intention and it is not that I did not want to take advantage of it, but as I mentioned before, this action was not helpful at all. I usually work by sections to protect wall and interior of house of sudden weather changes. Even when my crew did not open the walls, I offered to cover them before leaving the job site, but Clients wife did not let us cover it, She notified police officers onsite (November 23 2022) and they came down the driveway and instructed us that the home owner did not want more work done at her house. Therefore, I am not responsible for any wall damage that my crew or I did not open. 
  In reference to calling the police officers, I will not address this matter anymore unless is needed in court. Hopefully, we do not have to go that path.
  Talking about the quality of my crews work and the plywood installation, my crew did the best they could taking in consideration the present state of the walls of an older home. 3/4 plywood was used all the way. What is more, this is not the final visible product, the Zinc panels are the final visible product, reason why it was considered to use a rain screen technique, which consists on a synthetic mesh being  gap between the zinc and house wrap, this system has been approved by different architects, the Zinc panels are not meant to be installed directly on the plywood but with a gap allows for air to circulate behind the zinc as intended.
  I could give a very detailed explanation to every single objection the Client might have, but at this point he will bring more unreasonable excuses.
  Moving on and leaving all the misunderstandings behind, I am willing to come to an agreement with the Client, but the Client needs to be reasonable and stop escalating this dispute to something that could only be resolved in court, making it an extra expense that neither he nor I can afford. 
  
  Agreement Proposal #1  
  If Client wants to keep working with  CCZ then:
  Client needs to pay invoiced amount billed for labor work already done at his house, invoice number NOV222022 with the amount of $7,791.76 *** dollars. I am willing to offer the client 15% discount on this invoice only.
  I will finish wall- section B2 ONLY at winter install price.
  Client would need to sign a new contract establishing he would pay for any extra change orders that might emerge during the work process and pay the Cold Weather install price.
  Client will commit to pay weekly on Thursday for the prorated work done for that week period.
  Client has the option to keep the rest of the Zinc material if that is what he wants paying the priced already agreed on.
  If he is not willing to keep the rest of the Zinc I could take it back, but since a brand ******** coil was already custom cut to fit his house and I will not be able to reuse it, Client would need to pay 45% of the amount stated in the Service agreement for standing zinc panels fabrication. The material should be in good condition and with no damage.
  *IMPORTANT NOTE: Since, Client already filed a case with his Credit Card company we will need to wait for their resolution so we will know what the right way would be to proceed, either Client pays back for the materials, or I reimburse the partial amount if that is the case.
  
  
  
  
  Agreement Proposal #2
  In case the Client does not want to keep working with CCZ to finish wall section B2 then:
  I will offer a 15% discount on the invoiced amount billed for the labor already finished at his house on section B2. Invoice number NOV222022 with the amount of $7,791.76 *** dollars.
  I can offer the Client to keep the Zinc materials with a 10% off the price agreed on the Zinc materials and he gets to keep it. Note: Zinc is 100% compatible with Zinc.
  If he is not willing to keep the rest of the Zinc I could take it back, even though that means monetary loss for me, since a brand-************* coil was already custom cut to fit his house and I will not be able to reuse it. However I want to amend things with the Client and he would only need to pay 45% of the standing seam panels if they are in good condition and have no damage. 
  
  I am looking forward to concluding this unfortunate dispute with the Client before taking a legal action.
  Sincerely,
  CCZ LLC
  

  Customer response

  12/16/2022

  Complaint: 18465206
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  *****, the owner of Custom Copper and Zinc, LLC, has repeatedly COMPROMISED THE DELIVERY OF QUALITY OF SERVICES AND THE MATERIALS on our project, and is not trustworthy to complete the project to our satisfaction, whether he is a General Contractor, or not. As we stated in our last response, we do not feel confident that Custom Copper and Zinc LLC will complete this project to quality and the standard of longevity this project requires. This is a siding installation project with lifetime of over 100 years if properly installed.
  We have not received the proof of certification attached this the Contractor's response, so again, as it stands - he lied to us about this certification with VNZINC.There is NOTHING attached to this response.
  
  We did agree to the terms of contract presented by Custom Copper and Zinc, LLC, however the Contractor has broken/breached the contract. Here are the items that constitute the breach:
  
  1. The material purchase: regardless of where the material is purchased from, the party the Contractor has purchased the materials from MUST provide the warranty on the materials being delivered to the Client, especially the material so specific as Zinc material that can only be purchased from VMZINC manufacturer; ***** has ignored our request for the warranty, and since he has waked out from the project, there is no Contractor that is willing to work with unwarranted material.
  2. The material on our property: allegedly, ***** has purchased the zinc for our project which is a siding ( outside walls ) install of zinc material. IMPORTANTLY, our residential project is an installation of zinc panels on the ***** of our home residence. This is important, since the material we have on our property ( per 3rd party VMZINC certified and accredited installer as well as information received from VMZINC company after images were submitted to the company to verify the material ) is specifically for ROOF install and has no coating tape on the back (grey panels), not a WALL install, and is NOT recommended by VMZINC to be installed on *****. The recommended zinc material to install on walls ONLY will have white coating (see attached photos). Out of all the panels we have on our property, only 5 have the white coating. We can not use the materials ***** had left on our property, and therefore is free to arrange the time top pick it up. The credit requested by credit card processing company will have to be finalized  and not disputed before the pick up is arranged. The materials left on our property have been stored in the same manner as ***** left them, not affected by humidity. 
  3. Work on our property:
  - The plywood: the issue with treated plywood is that 1) it is treated with chemicals that leak into the house and are harmful to us, the owners of our home; 2) we did not request the treated plywood, and ***** on his own behalf decided to purchase and install the materials we did not request and approve, 3) as a "professional" installer as Contractor claims to be, ***** should have known that treated plywood is harmful to the health of the owners and is ONLY recommended to be used on the outside alone, not as a material that is used UNDER another material.Therefore, we will have to remove the plywood to complete our project, and therefore not responsible for its cost.
  - The plywood install: attached photos point out the defects/lack of professionalism or knowledge in this process. As we have stated in previous response - the joints and the corners of plywood sheets are not properly aligned in the locations where plywood meets at the corners and the seams. Stating that "my guys did the best the could" is NOT PROFESSIONAL, we refuse to accept this answer from a "professional with 22 years of experience". The issue with this plywood install, and another reason we will need to remove all the plywood ***** installed, is exactly because the plywood goes under the zinc panels, the proper and flash installation of the panels is not possible with this kind of sloppy plywood install.
  
  - The house wrap: attached photos point out the defects/lack of professionalism or knowledge in this process. It is obvious that the wrap is not properly installed, as per our own observation and a 3rd party professional contractor observation. 1. The wrap was nailed onto the plywood with permanent nails, but some nails are not properly driven in and are sticking out, allowing possible water to perpetrate under the wrap; many of the nails are not driven into the right locations. 2. The house wrap seams are not overlapped properly. 3. The wrap was not taped.
  ALL THE ABOVE support the fact that ***** and the Custom Copper and Zinc LLC had jeopardized the installation of zinc on our property, and therefore has broken/breached the contract.
  
  In response to Damage: we do NOT claim any wall damage, especially after the date the Contractor walked out. There is no need to point out something we do not claim.
  
  The claim to request a refund from Credit Card processing company: in our last response we have informed ***** that the material can not be used by any Contractor without a warranty, and since the request for the warranty was send with 7 days time-frame to deliver it as well as informing ***** in our email that if we do not received the warranty within the time-frame stated, we will be requesting a credit from a Credit Card processing company, we had moved forward and requested the credit AFTER the 7 days time frame passed. So, stating that we did not inform ***** about the Credit Card processing request is a lie, just like all other lies ***** is making up to cover his doings. We have requested the warranty which was ignored, and we have informed the Contractor in our last response that without warranty the project can not be completed, and if the warranty is not provided, we will have to request a credit from credit card processing company. So, the reaching out to coordinate the material pick up is up to the Contractor, since it is material he has purchased and we have no use for this material to complete our project. The finger pointing and complete denial of taking any responsibility on *****'s behalf is a very typical *****'s response to any issue that comes up and need to be resolved.
  

  Again, ALL ABOVE stated and the attached images proof that *****, the owner of Custom ****** and Zinc LLC is not trustworthy and had jeopardized the installation and completion of our residential project. To complete the project, we will have to start from the beginning, from ground zero, with another qualified installer.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************************

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