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    ComplaintsforRicart

    New Car Dealers
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    Complaint Details

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    Complaint Status
    Complaint Type
    • Complaint Type:
      Customer Service Issues
      Status:
      Answered
      We purchased a car from Ricart Used Car Factory on Feb 5. The car wasn’t actually complete until Friday the 9th. There were two issues. First, the offer was for the full asking price provided new tires were included. Secondly, this supposedly certified vehicle is out of alignment. We have contacted the dealer a number of times since the 12th and the issue is not being addressed.

      Business response

      03/05/2024

      When reviewing the customer file there was nothing promised during negotiations.  See attachment.

      I spoke with the manager and he said there must have been miscommunication because he was not aware of this offer.  So as a gesture of goodwill he will honor 4 tires and alignment.  The customer may contact **** ****** to arrange this service.  ###-###-####.

      Thank you for bringing this information to our attention and allowing us the opportunity to respond.

      Customer response

      03/13/2024

      [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, *** must close your complaint.] 

      Complaint: ********

      Our intention is to accept the offer once the record is set straight. The attachment added by the business only serves to add insult to injury, as it proves us foolish enough to sign the paperwork in advance and trust them to complete the process.  Both the offer and the fact that the car wasn’t actually released until the 9th are documented in their system.  Further, we suspect that there is also record of direct contact with more than one associate to report the issue and request action.

      So, instead of apologizing to their customer for the additional time/effort/angst because situation was  avoided in house, making it necessary to seek remedy outside the business (***), a pretense of extending a “goodwill gesture” is made in lieu of owning the error and doing the right thing up front.

      This is how they are choosing to represent the Ricart brand. 

      Regards,

      ****** ******

      Business response

      03/14/2024

      We certainly apologize if there was any miscommunication during your vehicle purchase and appreciate you bring this to our attention.  We were happy to address their concern.

       

    • Complaint Type:
      Billing Issues
      Status:
      Resolved
      I was having a paint recall done on my Hyundai and they scheduled an appointment with my and told me they would give me a rental and I drove all the way there and they said they had to charge my card $50 for the rental they are supposed to pay for and I had to leave. I called again to talk to someone higher up and the person told me the same thing. I was never told about it when I made the appointment.

      Business response

      02/23/2024

      We tell everyone when they meet with our Rental Agent there is a $50 deposit placed on a credit card before we will release a rental.  We keep it on file until the vehicle is returned and then the deposit is refunded unless damage or over mileage / days occurs while in the renters possession.  If the customer would like to use another rental company they will be responsible for full payment once the vehicle is repaired.  The customer can then turn that into our service department and we will be happy to submit the final bill to the manufacturer for reimbursement.

      I hope this information is helpful with understanding our position.  We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

       

      Customer response

      02/23/2024

      [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, BBB must close your complaint.] 

      Complaint: 21330227

      I am rejecting this response because: 

      I was not told this ahead of time and drove all the way there for an appointment and had to leave again and no one cared. It’s Hyundai’s fault I have to leave it there in the first place and outrageous I have to use my card for anything. They told me I had to give my insurance also.


      Regards,

      ******** ****

      Business response

      02/23/2024

      Were sorry to hear this is causing the customer any frustration.  We the Dealer are here to assist the customer through the manufacturer in order to assist with any warranty.  The Dealer will not be painting any repairs, we do not have a body shop.  We will facilitate getting the vehicle to a shop and once completed submit to the manufacturer for payment to the shop.  We will leave it up to the customer if they would like us to assist with the understanding the $50 deposit for use of a rental is our policy.

      I hope this information is helpful.

      Customer response

      02/23/2024

      [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response.  If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

      Better Business Bureau:

      I accept the business's response to resolve this complaint.

      Regards,

      ******** ****
    • Complaint Type:
      Service or Repair Issues
      Status:
      Answered
      I made an appointment for 8am on 1/24/24 for diagnostic of car issue. It took hours to get a hold anymore near the end of the day. When a response was finally received they said they hadn't gotten to it and if they could hold it another to try to figure out the problem. I tried calling 1/25/24 evening after several tries got a hold of someone and told no technician notes still so can they hold it another day. I called several times 1/25/24 trying to get a diagnostic. After several hours a rep told me that he had an estimate and claims it is water in my gas, I need to drain it, get a new fuel pump, etc. This excuse was used in 2020 when I took this car to this same place. I agreed to the repair at that time in 2020. 2 weeks later it had the same issue of intermittently not starting. I was not falling for this scam diagnostic again and refused the "repair" on 1/26/24. I went to pick up my car 1/27/24 and was told I can't because the car was in the shop and keys were locked in a technician lockbox. I have to wait until 1/29/24 to pick up my car. They are holding my car hostage now. I have no reasonable way to get to work now.

      Business response

      01/30/2024

      We apologize for any miscommunication.  The technician notes stated an unknown substance not necessarily water.  The customer declined work and frustrated with our findings.  They paid half of the bill as what the Service Manager agreed to as a gesture of goodwill.

      We decline any further refund.  I hope you can understand our position.  Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond.

      Customer response

      01/31/2024

      [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, BBB must close your complaint.] 

      Complaint: 21208809

      I am rejecting this response because: 
      I'm not necessarily looking for a refund. I want to warn others of the horrible service provided by Ricart, as well as the unethical repair diagnostics. I dropped off the car Tuesday afternoon with appointment scheduled for Wednesday morning at 8am. I didn't receive any communication from Ricart without spending hours trying to get a hold of my service rep. No notes were given by the repair tech until Friday afternoon, as if my car hadn't been touched until Friday. Even then I had to call several times over a few hours to get a hold of the service rep. I bought this car new from Ricart and had many of the scheduled maintenances performed there. This same issue happens in 2020 with the same diagnostics that water was in the fuel. I agreed to that repair to drain the tank, replace the fuel pump, change spark plugs, etc for $2200. I called the state inspector to blame the last gas station for having water in the fuel. The state inspector's findings showed that the station's gas was perfectly fine without any water in the storage tanks. 2 weeks after getting my "repaired" car back it was back to having the same issue of intermittently not starting, appearing to be lack of fuel or fuel pressure. Ricart is trying to use the same excuse that did not fix the problem the first time around and I'm not willing to pay what will probably amount to a few thousand dollars in repairs to not actually fix the issue.

      Regards,

      ***** ****

    • Complaint Type:
      Service or Repair Issues
      Status:
      Resolved
      On 19 DEC 23 we took our cars (Honda Odyssey and KIA Sportage) to Ricart Automotive Group, in Columbus, Ohio, to have the cars winterized for the Ohio weather. We just moved here from California. We asked them to change all the fluids in the cars so the fluids in the cars would not freeze. In addition they said they always topped off all of the fluids. When we got home we checked the oil, to make sure it was changed, and did a visual check on the coolant and the windshield fluid. The oil was changed, we googled the oil number to make sure it was compatible with cold weather. The coolant barely registered in the coolant tank in the Honda and the coolant tank in the KIA was at the refill line. They told us the Honda probably had an air pocket in the line. The technician that worked on the Honda should have been able to see that the coolant was not registering in the tank before the car was returned to us. The windshield wiper fluid in the Honda was half full and the wiper fluid was barely visible in the KIA. We called them and they ask us to bring the cars back to them. We took the cars back the next day and they said they topped off all the fluids. On January 15, 24) we turned on the windshield wipers to clear the snow and found that the windshield wiper fluid in the Honda Odyssey was frozen. We don't think Ricart flushed the windshield washer in the Honda but they added more fluid instead of flushing the system. The KIA was flushed and had the winter formula in the windshield washer container. They sent a customer service survey for us to submit and we submitted the survey, but they never responded, We left three telephone messages this week with customer service, but no one has returned our phone calls. As customers we should be able to trust Ricart to adequately perform the work that we requested.

      Business response

      01/22/2024

      We reviewed the customer's repair orders and see where service was noted.  We apologize for any frustration this may have caused.  We would like to offer as a gesture of goodwill a free oil change for their next visit to our dealership. If this may be something they may be interested in please contact ***** Price, our Import Service Manager at ###-###-####.  ***** will be happy to assist them.

      Thank you for bringing this information to our attention and allowing us the opportunity to respond.

       

      Customer response

      01/22/2024

      [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response.  If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

      Better Business Bureau:

      I accept the business's response to resolve this complaint.
      Regards, I did not want anything free. Thanks for the offer. I just want Proper Maintenance and customer service for all future customers.

      ****** And ***** ******
    • Complaint Type:
      Sales and Advertising Issues
      Status:
      Resolved
      I contacted **** p at Ricart over the phone to inquire about a 21 challenger I was told that I could get the car with in my price range and we could work the numbers with my 2017 ford f150 trade in, I drove to the store from Athens about a hour 45 min drive to the store off saw mill rd in a snow storm, I was texted by **** p 10 mins before arrival I confirmed I would be there, when I arrived I went in asked for **** and was told I would be working with a separate sales agent I didn’t like that because me and **** already were crunching numbers I asked for a manager *** H came out about 20 mins later I was being told the call center can’t make promises on sales or deals but here I am a a hour and a half into a drive looking for a car I like I asked for a record of the call I was not givin one I emailed multiple days asking for it and even called the president of the company and left a message a week later no contact besides a generic ask how my visit was with all due respect I come from Florida where people are itching to sell cars yet with a 680 credit score and a co-signer with perfect credit says I couldn’t get my appraisal value on my truck and devalued a 24k truck to 14k a 10k dip just for them to try to hike a price up on a car I recommend Ricart gets ahold of elder ford in Tampa Florida because obviously they don’t know how to sell cars that’s why everyone I’ve talked to minus about 12 people told me not to go with the dealership to begin with

      Business response

      01/18/2024

      The conversation was about wanting a payment of $600, trading in a truck sight unseen.  Once the customer came to the dealership with the trade-in we called for a payoff and found the customer owed more than the truck value carrying negative equity to we were unable to provide them a payment they were seeking.

      We would not commit to a price until we had all the information and the opportunity to appraise a vehicle value at the dealership.  We would want to drive it, run a Carfax, view the interior, etc.

      We apologize for any frustration this may have caused him.  I would hope they can understand our position.  As a gesture of goodwill we would be happy to provide them with a $50 gas card for his travel time.

      Customer response

      01/28/2024

      [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response.  If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

      Better Business Bureau:

      I accept the business's response to resolve this complaint.

      card can be sent to mailing address 

      *** *** * ***** ** ****** **** *****

      Regards,

      **** *****

    • Complaint Type:
      Service or Repair Issues
      Status:
      Resolved
      After just 340 miles the car had a major issue. I called Ricart - Ricart picked up the car on 11/7, and stated they would check out and file a claim with Ford, and I should have an answer by 11/15. I called and went to Ricart on multiple occasions, only to be informed that Ricart was waiting for Ford to confirm the buyback. I advised Ricart because they could not find the issue I wanted another car – the same or similar if any difference in the price I would pay. The knob on the gears just spins and I thought the problem would be found in that somehow. This should be easy the car was not even transferred in my name- I had not even made a payment because it was not due yet. If everyone thought the car was safe then fix it and sell it to someone else, but I was not putting my grandson in that car. I purchased EVERY warranty that Ricart put in front of me at a cost of +7/k Now no support? I want Ricart to buy back the car, I will purchase same or similar. This has stressed me out, getting the run around from everyone. when my home camera shows the back wheel on the car was stopped when it rolled out of my driveway across the street up a ditch down a ditch going threw a 6x6 post fence before concrete stopped it.

      Business response

      01/11/2024

      We are aware of Ms. **** concern.  We assisted with providing information to open a case with the manufacturer to request a buyback.  Ford engineers came to the dealership and ran tests for a few weeks and could never get the vehicle to duplicate a failure for the same concern.  Ford turned down assisting for a buyback twice.  Ford RAV informed her they would no longer cover payment for the rental so we made arrangements with the customer to return the vehicle and pickup the rental.

      This should now be an insurance claim since the rear of the vehicle is damaged from the vehicle rolling into a fence.  Once the vehicle is repaired they are more than welcome to negotiate on trading the vehicle in for another.

       

      I hope this information is helpful.  Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond.

      Business response

      01/11/2024

      We are aware of Ms. **** concern.  We assisted with providing information to open a case with the manufacturer to request a buyback.  Ford engineers came to the dealership and ran tests for a few weeks and could never get the vehicle to duplicate a failure for the same concern.  Ford turned down assisting for a buyback twice.  Ford RAV informed her they would no longer cover payment for the rental so we made arrangements with the customer to return the vehicle and pickup the rental.

      This should now be an insurance claim since the rear of the vehicle is damaged from the vehicle rolling into a fence.  Once the vehicle is repaired they are more than welcome to negotiate on trading the vehicle in for another.

       

      I hope this information is helpful.  Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond.

      Business response

      01/11/2024

      We are aware of Ms. **** concern.  We assisted with providing information to open a case with the manufacturer to request a buyback.  Ford engineers came to the dealership and ran tests for a few weeks and could never get the vehicle to duplicate a failure for the same concern.  Ford turned down assisting for a buyback twice.  Ford RAV informed her they would no longer cover payment for the rental so we made arrangements with the customer to return the vehicle and pickup the rental.

      This should now be an insurance claim since the rear of the vehicle is damaged from the vehicle rolling into a fence.  Once the vehicle is repaired they are more than welcome to negotiate on trading the vehicle in for another.

       

      I hope this information is helpful.  Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond.

      Customer response

      01/13/2024

      [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, BBB must close your complaint.] 

      Complaint: 21113689

      I am rejecting this response because:

      1/12/2024
      Dear all.
      I would like to give a few points about the service I received from Ricart and Ford.
      I bought a Service plan for $3540, another maintenance plan for $2365 and then a safeguard protection plan for $1300. You would think that after having the car just 20 days one of these plans would cover it.

      When Ricart picked the car up at my home, this service was covered under one of the service plans. The service manager gave me a loaner (I did not ask for it, but I took it again 10days are covered under one of service plans.) so at this point Iam getting nothing extra from Ricart.

      I called every other day for weeks to find what was wrong with the car, if so, fix it and we are good, however I was told nothing wrong and service manager said he would not drive it but waiting again for Ford to confirm the buy back.
      12/12 I called Ford Motor 1800 number and inquired what I should do they said Ricart would have to file the buyback claim. However, nothing had been filed per Roquemore, ***** at Ford customer service. ***** filed for me that day and a rejection letter was sent 3 days later.

      I called Ricart and informed them about the rejection letter, not to worry they said, they had not received any rejection letter. I gave them what I received -and still I was told they were waiting for the official letter from Ford.
      The first time Ricart gave me any paperwork for the loaner was 11/29-I explained to girl that This was a loaner from Ford because Iam waiting on the buyback confirmation-I was not being charged for this-she said service had it covered.

      Then on 1/4/2024 I received an e-mail telling me Ford did not approve the buy back and if I did not return the car by 1/5 4pm, they would turn it over to the authorities. (I have attached that e-mail for your review). Now they treat me like Iam the problem.

      Then to my surprise I received a call from Ford customer service and an e-mail fromOliver, ******** telling me she had re-submitted and it was rejected again. I asked if Ricart had given a claim yet and she said “:NO” this was 1/8/2024

      Now all of this said and done, the FACT is the car was in Park and rolled out of my driveway by itself. I HAVE ATTACHED PHOTOS TO SHOW back wheel was stopped when I Exited the car. Then the car rolled out, because I can not upload the video to BB Ricart has the video and if needed, I will bring it to the BB.

      Respectfully,
      ****** ****
      ###-###-####

      Regards,

      ****** ****

      Customer response

      01/18/2024


      **********@gmail.com
      Tue, Jan 16, 9:10 PM (2 days ago)
      to disputeresolution

      Dear BBB

      I am happy to say I have spoken with RICART Ford, W e both have an understanding of what our needs are and at this point we should be able to work this out.

      I would like to close this claim and give them a 5star rating.

       

      ****** ****

      ###-###-####
    • Complaint Type:
      Service or Repair Issues
      Status:
      Answered
      I took my car to Ricart on June 7. to fix minor things, they let me know several things up under my hood was under warranty so they wanted to fix it. After having my car for several months, I had it not even a week and my car broke down. I let them know my car was running like it wasn’t running before. My engine was ticking like it wasn’t getting oil. I have a neighbor look at my car and he said that my oil smelled like gas. On my way to take it to another car place to get it checked it broke down on the side of the road. None are telling me they are I owe $5000 for them to fix my vehicle which something they had did.

      Business response

      11/20/2023

      The customer has a service contact which will only cover so much leaving them with a balance due.  We are still waiting on authorization from the customer to start repairs.  The customer is in a rental but as of today we can no longer cover a loaner until authorization is given to us.  We are hoping to hear from the customer soon to provide direction.

      I hope this helps explain our position.  We appreciate you allowing us the opportunity to respond.

    • Complaint Type:
      Service or Repair Issues
      Status:
      Resolved
      I purchased a Ford Explorer 11/4/23, I was given the information on the vehicle, given the Carfax, test drove it, was aware of the scratches to the paint that were on it, and everything was OK with that and I proceeded to purchase the vehicle. While purchasing the vehicle I went ahead and purchased the extended warranty that was offered add a 3 yr /36,000 mile warranty to cover all mechanical issues. it was also explained to me on the warranty that they had that was given to me for just purchasing the vehicle which was they would pop out small dents for free, and there was the service to get a key replaced if something happened to one of your keys that you had. After everything was signed, I was getting ready to leave, I was left one key to the vehicle, I was then informed that that was the only key that they had for the vehicle. I told them then that would have been a deciding factor in me buying the vehicle because I want two keys. The salesman that I was dealing with ******, and his sales manager *****, both tell me there was nothing they could do they just had the one key. When asked what could be done, they told me my only option was to buy one for $300-$400. I explained to them that that would have been a determining factor on me buying the car, and i was told, well it's your car now. I went ahead and left and I called back to the dealership on Monday 11/6/23 and I requested to speak to a manager above *****, and I was given TIM PLYMALE. he told me their policy was they were not to make a duplicate key and if I wanted the key I could pay for it. I asked him what their policy was on disclosing that information to a client prior to purchasing a vehicle and he said they didn't have one for that and people wouldn't know if there was two keys unless they asked beforehand or until after they purchased the vehicle. his offer was to come in and buy the key, or return the car and exchange it for another car. there was no other car that I would have purchased.

      Business response

      11/06/2023

      We will offer a one time gesture of goodwill to cover the cost of a second key for the customer.  I will mail them a due bill.  Once they receive it in the mail they can schedule an appointment for service.

      Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond.

      Customer response

      11/06/2023

      [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response.  If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

      Better Business Bureau:

      I accept the business's response to resolve this complaint.
      Regards,

      ***** ******
    • Complaint Type:
      Product Issues
      Status:
      Answered
      We paid in full, $21,499.99 from Ricart Automotive Group on 9/20/2023 where we were not told several things up front: the moon roof motor was not working-though found in the point inspection at their dealership, it was not disclosed. There was also a Road Ready Warranty for 30 days or 1st 1,000 miles (this was not told to us). The sales person was ****** ******* and I notified him 9/22/2023 that I noticed my moon roof was not working. He said he would let the service department know to see what they could do since it was "as is." I didn't hear back. On 10/5/23 (15 days from purchase), my husband was out of town for business with the vehicle and noted front under carriage loose sounding and wobbling? And...white/blue smoke coming out of the exhaust with burning oil smells. He took the vehicle to a ASE certified mechanic who immediately knew it could be turbo seals leaking oil that is a common problem with this engine and to notify the dealership immediately. Called 10/6/23 notifying again the non-working moon roof motor we never heard back from, the undercarriage noise & smoking exhaust/smell. Told bring Monday, 10/9, but no time given. Called 10/9 to confirm time; told NO appt or problems noted & no appt until 10/12. Sent video via text to Sean Williams of smoke through exhaust 10/16. Told we had driven 300 miles over the 1,000. If we would have known this limit, we would not have gone over while waiting to get serviced. They offered to review for free & Zero charge: fixed moon roof motor, said they fixed the undercarriage, but couldn't reduplicate the smoking. Told us to let them know if it happened again. Happened 4 more times, videotaped and sent video to their internal messaging & brought back 11/2/23. They said they would give us a loaner & never said we would need to pay for it, but day later said charge us $45/daily. 2 calls saying 2 different reviews as the smoke is normal and the other said its condensation. False. Told undercarriage tightened again.

      Business response

      11/07/2023

      The last visit 11/2 was the customer claiming his vehicle at start was blowing blue smoke.  We the Dealer have never been able to duplicate this concern and have never charged them for any of the services prior.  The customer is still saying he has the same concern with smoke.  We have suggested to get a second opinion.  However, If they would like to bring the vehicle here for service they will be responsible for diagnostic charges and rental.  The moonroof has been repaired and the undercarriage was tightened.  The customer is out of their 30 day-1,000 mile coverage.  I hope they will understand our position.

      Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond.

      Customer response

      11/07/2023

      [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, BBB must close your complaint.] 

      Complaint: 20829477

      I am rejecting this response because: We have multiple 4k high resolution videos showing the smoke which started 2 weeks after purchase, 2 weeks before the 1 month, 1000 mile warranty was up. We tried to get the car in for service and scheduled us to bring it in prior to the 1000 mile or 30 days. We called the morning we were supposed to drop it off and they admitted we had NOT been put on the schedule as told. So, they scheduled us for another appointment near another week out. Considering their scheduling mistake, through no fault of our own we are now past their warranty. Alyshia stated when we were their dropping it off they understood and would try to figure out what is wrong. After the first drop off and pick up they said they could not duplicate the smoke issue. I felt this was strange because it does this every day at home. We were told anytime we bring it back for the smoking issue it will go back to the ongoing complaint date, not the after warranty date. We have all of this documented and on recorded phone calls as I know Ricart does too.

      After dropping the car off the second time, Ricart said they tightened the sway-bar linkage up again.. As of now I do not hear any issue.

      They also stated once again they could not duplicate the smoke issue. At this point, it is extremely hard to believe they cannot duplicate the issue when we have it smoke on us daily and they have had it 2 weeks. We picked up the car drove to Lancaster Kroger (approx. 30 miles and 70 degrees outside) bought groceries, came out started the car and stinky smoke went all over the parking lot, NOT condensation. We then went to another store, back and back home. An hour later we got in the car again, started it and smoking again. 

      While speaking to ***** on the phone and explaining the issue and the research I have done on the issue, while laughing at me, he tells me of a couple other items that may cause our car to smoke in addition to the three items i mentioned but until he see's it smoke he refuses to check those items out. Regardless of having 4k high res videos of it smoking.

      They did fix the sunroof. As told by them, we should have been told when we bought the car that it did not work and should have signed a paper that stated that. We did not hear of nor sign any paper, Much to my surprise, they initially quoted us $1300 to replace the sun-roof motor ($650 for the motor and $650 for labor). My surprise was due to the fact I had already looked into this repair which was approximately half that price. I proceeded to forward the Ford pricing to Alyshia and soon after they said they would fix it without charge.

      The Car smoked again this morning. we called and text regarding dropping it off again and they flat refuse to do anything now including look at it. I am not asking for anything out of the ordinary. I need them to live up to their word and fix the car.

      Regards,

      ***** ******-*****

      Business response

      11/15/2023

      Our position has not changed.  We are unable to duplicate the customer concern.  They are welcome to bring it in for service but there will be a diagnostic and rental charge if they would like to accept this offer.  They may want to get a second opinion.

      Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond

    • Complaint Type:
      Service or Repair Issues
      Status:
      Answered
      I went to Ricart service and I told them my battery was draining my car instead they replaced a tire sensor for over $1000 and charge me for a battery and charge me for a Lotta items and never fix the car and miss lead us by telling us that we refuse service and we never refuse service we just wanted the car repaired, but it never got repaired

      Business response

      10/03/2023

      We will have to decline reimbursement or adjustments.  The customer had recently purchased a battery from another company and was still having concerns.  Our technician felt the recent battery may have had a defect and to return to the other company for a replacement.  The customer requested we replace the battery and they would take the other battery back to the company they purchased.  We were up front and told them the cost to purchase and install the battery.  They still wanted Ricart to replace the battery.  We completed the repair as requested.

      I hope this information is helpful.  We appreciate you allowing us the opportunity to respond.

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